Random Question

[gonetoearth 5,144]

Just for the record GTE why is it you seek to belittle line bred dogs ,why do you think its not possible and have you ever tried to breed true to type .There are many lads on here that have their own lines but refuse to comment on threads like this because of the likes of you .Is the reason because you don't have anything remotely good at the moment or the fact you have never bred anything of any note.I'm over your way soon so why not invite me round to show me different .You are welcome here to see what peas in a pod look like but doubt if you'll turn up .No doubt you will crack a joke or two a bit nervously at the thought .Our paths will cross that is a certainty .no malice intended but I'll make myself known none the less .People like you love to belittle what is outside your comprehension ,a trait that shows a certain amount of embarrassment in what your own life holds .Like I said pm me and we can sort a meet .

. Nervous over debate about terriers. Strange comments to make my views on terriers are mine and mine alone. You dont own the licence on comments sir you dont influence my thoughts in any way why should you crave to introduce youself to me. You seem happy with your terriers why are you botherd by my views i disagree with genetics. Big deal i disagree with many things its called. Debate Nervous about you meeting me. And pm you !! anything i have to say ill say it on an open forum. Im to old to be having. Chit chat. On a pm. I have no intrest in you personally you seem to have taken one in me. I have no interest in you or your terriers. I am afried sorry. If that offenends you , as for outside my comprehension If you say so , Embarrasment in what my life holds lol. Oh dear you need to relise this is an internet forum. Were people debate thats all.

[gonetoearth 5,144]

And just for the record Good luck to any one who wants to line breed good look to any one who wants to breed full stop

My opion is breed your best to your best. Worker to worker . Some will work some wont. Not exactly science am sorry but its only my opinion.

Edited May 22, 2014 by gonetoearth

[jeemes 3,491]

Your opinion is breed worker to unrelated worker and hope what you keep works. Fine thats your opinion,but why do you try to rubbish what other people say for the sake of it. I think I know.

Edited May 23, 2014 by jeemes

[gonetoearth 5,144]

Fook me this is like a school yard , i dont agree with you opinion ok. I edit my spellin ok.

Get over your self jeeves for fooks sake Its a differsnce of opinions on terriers. For fooks sake. Ooooops edit. And again

Edited May 23, 2014 by gonetoearth

[gonetoearth 5,144]

You dont debate. You wouldnt know debate if it smacked you in the teeth. People like you have to try and make there selves look big by trying to make others look small. Now your saying good luck to those who want to line breed after all youve said. You can tell how much confidence you have in your own opinion,you edit nearly every post you make.

 

. Yeh line breed not go over the top and make some big deal over genetics lol. Its not rocket sience. Make my self look big lol read your posts On genetics lol. Edited May 23, 2014 by gonetoearth

[stop.end 4,079]

lol... terrier work will bring out the fire and cave men in many people.... this threads proof of that.,,, but we have moved on a lot i hope?

 

like many other threads its a pile of cut and paste answers from google or hear says and not much honesty. from the men who have been there done it.. but wont admit it why?... well that takes time and dedication to find mistakes and admit them....

 

the reason why some will know is because they have succumb to the any terrier will work myth or he is blood releated but never seen the dark!

and caught themselves on very quickly...

but if your kennell blind or hype blind then they will never understand this!

terrier men can keep terriers years but not know terriers...

rant over and no offence inteneded to any individual.... thinking out loud!

[gonetoearth 5,144]

Your opinion is breed worker to unrelated worker and hope what you keep works. Fine thats your opinion,but why do you try to rubbish what other people say for the sake of it. I think I know.

. Think you best read every post ive ever wrote and breed unrelated wo wo wo have you not stated on here you have not had a good one of kg. i laughingly asked how many have you had and why would you buy in terriers after educating us on the in and outs of genetics , listern. Preach all you want but when some one disagrees. Learn to understsnd thats called. Debate.

[gonetoearth 5,144]

GONE FISHING

[jeemes 3,491]

 

You dont debate. You wouldnt know debate if it smacked you in the teeth. People like you have to try and make there selves look big by trying to make others look small. Now your saying good luck to those who want to line breed after all youve said. You can tell how much confidence you have in your own opinion,you edit nearly every post you make.

. Yeh line breed not go over the top and make some big deal over genetics lol. Its not rocket sience. Make my self look big lol read your posts On genetics lol.

 

Ive never even said I owned a dog on any of my posts. I have made no claims about any dog ive bred or any acheivments on my part. Everything Ive said was in responce to a hyperthetical question that was the origional topic(long forgotten thanks to you) Its you who took it personal and started challenging to see breeding proof and results,but when you get an invite from a bloke to do just that you back out rather quickly..No body has been trying to make themselves look big,its just your paranoid sense of your own failures..and its definatley none of your business how many terriers,lurchers,rabbits or chickens Ive bought off Ken Gould. Hes a good breeder in my opinion of all domestic livestock and a great believer in in breeding and line breeding. He may not know the words but he knows how to influence genes.

[VOON 1,313]

 

Posted on another forum.

 

E. Katie Gammill, AKC Judge, TheDogPlace.org Exhibition Editor - August 2009

 

 

Do you count your litters or do your litters count? Are you a “dog breeder” or a “breeder of dogs”? What is your ratio of producing dogs that finish?

 

After buying a national winning bitch, a breeder wonders why the bitch fails to produce quality offspring. She doesn’t understand her bitch is not the only ingredient in her recipe for success. Throwing time and money away, she blames the bitch. In all actuality; it is her lack of knowledge regarding her breeding program that is at fault. Breeding her bitch to currently winning dogs without giving a thought to health, pedigree, or cross faulting, she puzzles as to why others accomplish what she can not.

 

An excellent breeding program isn’t “happen-chance”. Cross faulting, health certifications, and pedigree research is imperative as is breeding with the future in mind. It is imperative one has a “breeding plan” in place. There are reasons why some people consistently breed top winners and others breed a “flash in the pan” with the inability to reproduce its qualities. One may go to the expense of buying a top winner, but to reproduce a winner without a “battle plan” is an effort in futility.

 

The goal of all breeders should be to breed to standard. Breeding something different to “catch” a judges eye may temporarily produce a winner, but it doesn’t do the next breeder in line any favors toward trying to build a credible breeding program. This “quick fix” is a fad with little lasting value that pushes the standard to the side.

 

This in turn creates a continuously moving target and sadly, it is the reason many people in the sport drop out within the first five years. For everyone to SUCCEED, we must aim for a stationary target (the breed standard). Only then will we perfect our aim toward producing “breed excellence”. So let’s start with the basics.

 

 

DOG BREEDING, INBREEDING, LINEBREEDING, OUTCROSSING, AND BACKCROSSINGOUTCROSS: This is a breeding of pedigrees where the first (5-6) generations have NO common ancestry. To achieve a successful outcross, determine if the chosen male offers “locked in” genetic abilities to produce such virtues by observing his offspring. A “flash in the pan” winner offers instant gratification, but where does one go from there if he isn’t bred to reproduce himself?

 

When possible, visit his sire and dam as well as siblings. If the male of choice does not appear to produce what you need, WHAT IS THE POINT OF BREEDING YOUR BITCH to him? Using an inbred or closely line bred bitch when introducing new characteristics may assist you as this particular outcross invites a lack of uniformity.

 

You have choices. If the puppy reflecting the “trait” you went after is not sound, but is showy, consider growing out a second puppy as well. The first puppy may well carry the genes to produce that which the second choice sounder puppy is not capable of reproducing. Only by growing the two puppies to maturity and breeding a litter from each, will you know.

 

My ten girl cousins were the “spitting image” of my father’s family look. My sister and I took after my mother. As “half-baked” youngsters, one would never guess our heritage but with maturity, our body type and size, even our voices and actions confirmed we were of the same “ilk”.

 

So every litter offers “different types”. Watching my two puppies and breeding them resulted in “What you see is not always what you get. The lesser of the two adults actually produced more desirable puppies.

 

How did I learn this? By growing the two puppies to maturity. When evaluating the offspring of their litters, I gave those virtues most important to me additional consideration. Without losing what my own line offered, while evaluating the virtues, I was able to incorporate them through the outcross. The goal was “the best of both worlds. My male produces a certain “look” and through serious consideration I will incorporate this into my initial soundness. This explains the difference in phenotype (What you see) and genotype. (Hidden value).

 

Eventually, offspring from the bitch will be bred to offspring of the male, anchoring outstanding virtues into the pedigree by careful selection. At this point, it evolves as “line breeding”.

 

LINEBREEDING: Line breeding is the concentration of valuable characteristics. It allows some control over “families”. This method requires one of the selected parents having one or more common ancestors in the pedigree in the last several (5-6) generations. These ancestors themselves may be a successful line-breeding of outstanding individuals. Use only healthy individuals or the program will meet with disaster.

 

Health, fertility, temperament, type, is imperative because compromises negatively affect your future breeding program and will require further elimination.

 

INBREEDING: Once reaching the pinnacle of desired virtues, INBREED. This “sets” breed type and defines a certain “look”. You will “reap what you sow. Inbreeding results in “the best of the best” and “the worst of the worst”. This is what makes a breeder! This risk is not for the faint of heart. If things go “south”, take responsibility for the results and act accordingly.

 

TO PUT IT IN A NUTSHELL:

 

OUTCROSSING introduces new traits for definite improvement. Our biggest failing is “throwing the baby out with the bathwater”. LINEBREEDING creates and establishes a pedigree which in degrees, incorporates and produces specific traits on a continuous basis. If a good female results from a breeding, she can be bred back to her grandsire for consistency of type reflecting the sire’s side. INBREEDING sets type and simplifies goals. Inbreeding consists of mother to son, father to daughter, brother to sister, etc. Strengthening desirable dominants as well as hidden recessive, the breeder must recognize and correct once again through out crossing...

 

Breeders must always be aware of hidden genetic positive and negative effects. A breeding made from paper study alone is like an arranged marriage-it may be consummated, but there is small chance for success”. (EHH 1968)

 

Successful breeders “arrive” through heartbreak, tears, and hard work. They achieve desired results by eliminating animals that do not reflect their goals. These animals are called “pets”. The standard IS our blueprint, although too often, personal opinion takes precedence.

 

For a more in depth study of how to correct faults, read Lloyd C. Brackett’s “Planned Breeding” article on the website http://www.nylana.org. This breeder, following Brackett’s methods, is known for Best in Show Schipperkes. Although there are over 53 pages, for a serious breeder the consumption of ink and paper is certainly worth the printing.

 

Not for the “squeamish”, there is another type of breeding:

 

BACKBREEDING. If one has a superior male and lovely bitch excelling in health, type, temperament, and conformation. MATE THEM. Keep a female from this litter and mate this puppy to her sire. Keep a female puppy from the resulting litter and take her to the original sire, (her father). Breed until you reach the desired results or until weaknesses become apparent. Few will take up this challenge, but it’s something to consider. “Back breeding” produced many of the “GREATS” in a variety of breeds. This is WHY many greats of the past were dominant for producing their qualities generation after generation. This confirms becoming a respected breeder is a slow and painful process.

 

Back Breeding “sets type”. The offspring will mirror the excellence of the line. When line- breeding and in-breeding is done properly, strengths, NOT weaknesses, will be the end result.

 

True breeders are “tough cookies”. Through their dedication to the standards, the goal of “breed excellence” will remain firm, moving our great sport of dogs into the future.

[gonetoearth 5,144]

Posted on another forum.

E. Katie Gammill, AKC Judge, TheDogPlace.org Exhibition Editor - August 2009

Do you count your litters or do your litters count? Are you a “dog breeder” or a “breeder of dogs”? What is your ratio of producing dogs that finish?

After buying a national winning bitch, a breeder wonders why the bitch fails to produce quality offspring. She doesn’t understand her bitch is not the only ingredient in her recipe for success. Throwing time and money away, she blames the bitch. In all actuality; it is her lack of knowledge regarding her breeding program that is at fault. Breeding her bitch to currently winning dogs without giving a thought to health, pedigree, or cross faulting, she puzzles as to why others accomplish what she can not.

An excellent breeding program isn’t “happen-chance”. Cross faulting, health certifications, and pedigree research is imperative as is breeding with the future in mind. It is imperative one has a “breeding plan” in place. There are reasons why some people consistently breed top winners and others breed a “flash in the pan” with the inability to reproduce its qualities. One may go to the expense of buying a top winner, but to reproduce a winner without a “battle plan” is an effort in futility.

The goal of all breeders should be to breed to standard. Breeding something different to “catch” a judges eye may temporarily produce a winner, but it doesn’t do the next breeder in line any favors toward trying to build a credible breeding program. This “quick fix” is a fad with little lasting value that pushes the standard to the side.

This in turn creates a continuously moving target and sadly, it is the reason many people in the sport drop out within the first five years. For everyone to SUCCEED, we must aim for a stationary target (the breed standard). Only then will we perfect our aim toward producing “breed excellence”. So let’s start with the basics.

DOG BREEDING, INBREEDING, LINEBREEDING, OUTCROSSING, AND BACKCROSSINGOUTCROSS: This is a breeding of pedigrees where the first (5-6) generations have NO common ancestry. To achieve a successful outcross, determine if the chosen male offers “locked in” genetic abilities to produce such virtues by observing his offspring. A “flash in the pan” winner offers instant gratification, but where does one go from there if he isn’t bred to reproduce himself?

When possible, visit his sire and dam as well as siblings. If the male of choice does not appear to produce what you need, WHAT IS THE POINT OF BREEDING YOUR BITCH to him? Using an inbred or closely line bred bitch when introducing new characteristics may assist you as this particular outcross invites a lack of uniformity.

You have choices. If the puppy reflecting the “trait” you went after is not sound, but is showy, consider growing out a second puppy as well. The first puppy may well carry the genes to produce that which the second choice sounder puppy is not capable of reproducing. Only by growing the two puppies to maturity and breeding a litter from each, will you know.

My ten girl cousins were the “spitting image” of my father’s family look. My sister and I took after my mother. As “half-baked” youngsters, one would never guess our heritage but with maturity, our body type and size, even our voices and actions confirmed we were of the same “ilk”.

So every litter offers “different types”. Watching my two puppies and breeding them resulted in “What you see is not always what you get. The lesser of the two adults actually produced more desirable puppies.

How did I learn this? By growing the two puppies to maturity. When evaluating the offspring of their litters, I gave those virtues most important to me additional consideration. Without losing what my own line offered, while evaluating the virtues, I was able to incorporate them through the outcross. The goal was “the best of both worlds. My male produces a certain “look” and through serious consideration I will incorporate this into my initial soundness. This explains the difference in phenotype (What you see) and genotype. (Hidden value).

Eventually, offspring from the bitch will be bred to offspring of the male, anchoring outstanding virtues into the pedigree by careful selection. At this point, it evolves as “line breeding”.

LINEBREEDING: Line breeding is the concentration of valuable characteristics. It allows some control over “families”. This method requires one of the selected parents having one or more common ancestors in the pedigree in the last several (5-6) generations. These ancestors themselves may be a successful line-breeding of outstanding individuals. Use only healthy individuals or the program will meet with disaster.

Health, fertility, temperament, type, is imperative because compromises negatively affect your future breeding program and will require further elimination.

INBREEDING: Once reaching the pinnacle of desired virtues, INBREED. This “sets” breed type and defines a certain “look”. You will “reap what you sow. Inbreeding results in “the best of the best” and “the worst of the worst”. This is what makes a breeder! This risk is not for the faint of heart. If things go “south”, take responsibility for the results and act accordingly.

TO PUT IT IN A NUTSHELL:

OUTCROSSING introduces new traits for definite improvement. Our biggest failing is “throwing the baby out with the bathwater”. LINEBREEDING creates and establishes a pedigree which in degrees, incorporates and produces specific traits on a continuous basis. If a good female results from a breeding, she can be bred back to her grandsire for consistency of type reflecting the sire’s side. INBREEDING sets type and simplifies goals. Inbreeding consists of mother to son, father to daughter, brother to sister, etc. Strengthening desirable dominants as well as hidden recessive, the breeder must recognize and correct once again through out crossing...

Breeders must always be aware of hidden genetic positive and negative effects. A breeding made from paper study alone is like an arranged marriage-it may be consummated, but there is small chance for success”. (EHH 1968)

Successful breeders “arrive” through heartbreak, tears, and hard work. They achieve desired results by eliminating animals that do not reflect their goals. These animals are called “pets”. The standard IS our blueprint, although too often, personal opinion takes precedence.

For a more in depth study of how to correct faults, read Lloyd C. Brackett’s “Planned Breeding” article on the website http://www.nylana.org. This breeder, following Brackett’s methods, is known for Best in Show Schipperkes. Although there are over 53 pages, for a serious breeder the consumption of ink and paper is certainly worth the printing.

Not for the “squeamish”, there is another type of breeding:

BACKBREEDING. If one has a superior male and lovely bitch excelling in health, type, temperament, and conformation. MATE THEM. Keep a female from this litter and mate this puppy to her sire. Keep a female puppy from the resulting litter and take her to the original sire, (her father). Breed until you reach the desired results or until weaknesses become apparent. Few will take up this challenge, but it’s something to consider. “Back breeding” produced many of the “GREATS” in a variety of breeds. This is WHY many greats of the past were dominant for producing their qualities generation after generation. This confirms becoming a respected breeder is a slow and painful process.

Back Breeding “sets type”. The offspring will mirror the excellence of the line. When line- breeding and in-breeding is done properly, strengths, NOT weaknesses, will be the end result.

True breeders are “tough cookies”. Through their dedication to the standards, the goal of “breed excellence” will remain firm, moving our great sport of dogs into the future.

. Craking post And very informative

[gonetoearth 5,144]

 

 

You dont debate. You wouldnt know debate if it smacked you in the teeth. People like you have to try and make there selves look big by trying to make others look small. Now your saying good luck to those who want to line breed after all youve said. You can tell how much confidence you have in your own opinion,you edit nearly every post you make.

 

. Yeh line breed not go over the top and make some big deal over genetics lol. Its not rocket sience. Make my self look big lol read your posts On genetics lol.

Ive never even said I owned a dog on any of my posts. I have made no claims about any dog ive bred or any acheivments on my part. Everything Ive said was in responce to a hyperthetical question that was the origional topic(long forgotten thanks to you) Its you who took it personal and started challenging to see breeding proof and results,but when you get an invite from a bloke to do just that you back out rather quickly..No body has been trying to make themselves look big,its just your paranoid sense of your own failures..and its definatley none of your business how many terriers,lurchers,rabbits or chickens Ive bought off Ken Gould. Hes a good breeder in my opinion of all domestic livestock and a great believer in in breeding and line breeding. He may not know the words but he knows how to influence genes.

. I have not backed out of any thing i dont need. Education. Or to meet any one , i asked you to. Post your records of breeding. As you were Lecturing the virtues of genes , As for mr G. I have nothing but respectet for the man who passed on to me my first terrier in 74. Read the very imformative post by voon you might learn some thing. Ill be reading it many times to digest it. I learned by my many many mistakes. Nature can be very cruel but very rewarding. To

[foxdropper 17,092]

Top post there Voon and one one i will read in depth soon .Debate is one thing but the constant trashing of someones posts is another .Used to be a bloody good section this terriers but like i said many lads i know refuse to post because of shit to follow .There really is a wealth of knowledge on here for youngsters to follow if only the stirrers would let it flow .Im quick to retaliate i know and forceful in what i write but ive never knowingly lead anyone astray like has happened of late .Line breeding produces exactly that ,terriers that look ,act and work the same when done right .The offer is still there if you ever want a day out with some robots mate .For someone to have been in the game for as long as you have gte im surprised you havnt a lakie line of you own but thats just my opinion .Spoke to somone who knows you rather well and oh how we laughed. .

[gonetoearth 5,144]

Am just a chancer Ill need sleeping tablets tonight Gone fishing.

[marshman 7,756]

Wise men speak because they have something to say , Fools because he has to say something ?. Come on lads agree to disagree eh lol ?