BORDERSCOT 3,816 Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Unfair to call Jim Watt a joke - granted he wasn't flamboyant or exciting to watch. But from the perspective of a purist he was a very good technical fighter who won and then defended his title 4 times before losing to an all time great. That said though I doubt very much if he would have reached the heights he did without Terry Lawless - he had a great stable of fighters in the 80s, Watt, Magri, Hope etc...all good times. I was a big Lawless fan - every time he was interviewed he made sense and knew what he was on about. Most of all though he seemed to have a relationship with his fighters that transcended the normal manager/fighter relationship. He woulda looked after them...more than others perhaps!!! Gnasher you'll be able to give an insight into Lawless be good to read what you think??? Ha Donkeyears - Watt didn't half spank Ireland's Charlie Nash tho eh???? Bigot???? Where you get that???? I have a book here called Three Tears for Glasgow written by Jim Watt's original manager Jimmy Murray - met him once or twice and he gave me a signed copy of the book - a really emotionally charged insight into the Glasgow of old, fighters of yesteryear (he knew dozens) Watt's early career and his hatred of authority as well as Jim Murray's take on life - which I must admit was unorthodox and very straight to the point. Don't think he kept the best mental health and it shows in the book...he mentions nothing of Watts world title success but plenty of their falling out...he was bitter no doubt and I'm sure Watt's success would have been a double edged sword...good read all the same...watched Watt vs O'grady last night after reading this thread. good fight - Watt was in trouble but stuck it out before sticking the head into O'grady...both showed the heart it takes...don't think the O'grady family liked their whole Glasgow experience tho with death threats and general unpleasantness...happy days 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Astanley 11,498 Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Turned into a cracking wee thread this, keep it up guys Gnash, you know your stuff. Buttermilk, that boxing books come in handy Baw , when I was young I lived for boxing 70 odd amateur fights , if it wasn,t for the fact that I was crap I coulda been a contender atb the canvas back kid . 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
baw 4,360 Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Turned into a cracking wee thread this, keep it up guys Gnash, you know your stuff. Buttermilk, that boxing books come in handy Baw , when I was young I lived for boxing 70 odd amateur fights , if it wasn,t for the fact that I was crap I coulda been a contender atb the canvas back kid . Canvas back kid oh I believe you mate, you've still got the fancy footwork too last I heard...... You can dance round them cow pats no problem Quote Link to post Share on other sites
donkey ears 23 Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Unfair to call Jim Watt a joke - granted he wasn't flamboyant or exciting to watch. But from the perspective of a purist he was a very good technical fighter who won and then defended his title 4 times before losing to an all time great. That said though I doubt very much if he would have reached the heights he did without Terry Lawless - he had a great stable of fighters in the 80s, Watt, Magri, Hope etc...all good times. I was a big Lawless fan - every time he was interviewed he made sense and knew what he was on about. Most of all though he seemed to have a relationship with his fighters that transcended the normal manager/fighter relationship. He woulda looked after them...more than others perhaps!!! Gnasher you'll be able to give an insight into Lawless be good to read what you think??? Ha Donkeyears - Watt didn't half spank Ireland's Charlie Nash tho eh???? Bigot???? Where you get that???? I have a book here called Three Tears for Glasgow written by Jim Watt's original manager Jimmy Murray - met him once or twice and he gave me a signed copy of the book - a really emotionally charged insight into the Glasgow of old, fighters of yesteryear (he knew dozens) Watt's early career and his hatred of authority as well as Jim Murray's take on life - which I must admit was unorthodox and very straight to the point. Don't think he kept the best mental health and it shows in the book...he mentions nothing of Watts world title success but plenty of their falling out...he was bitter no doubt and I'm sure Watt's success would have been a double edged sword...good read all the same...watched Watt vs O'grady last night after reading this thread. good fight - Watt was in trouble but stuck it out before sticking the head into O'grady...both showed the heart it takes...don't think the O'grady family liked their whole Glasgow experience tho with death threats and general unpleasantness...happy days he made a show of himself with o, grade . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Astanley 11,498 Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Unfair to call Jim Watt a joke - granted he wasn't flamboyant or exciting to watch. But from the perspective of a purist he was a very good technical fighter who won and then defended his title 4 times before losing to an all time great. That said though I doubt very much if he would have reached the heights he did without Terry Lawless - he had a great stable of fighters in the 80s, Watt, Magri, Hope etc...all good times. I was a big Lawless fan - every time he was interviewed he made sense and knew what he was on about. Most of all though he seemed to have a relationship with his fighters that transcended the normal manager/fighter relationship. He woulda looked after them...more than others perhaps!!! Gnasher you'll be able to give an insight into Lawless be good to read what you think??? Ha Donkeyears - Watt didn't half spank Ireland's Charlie Nash tho eh???? Bigot???? Where you get that???? I have a book here called Three Tears for Glasgow written by Jim Watt's original manager Jimmy Murray - met him once or twice and he gave me a signed copy of the book - a really emotionally charged insight into the Glasgow of old, fighters of yesteryear (he knew dozens) Watt's early career and his hatred of authority as well as Jim Murray's take on life - which I must admit was unorthodox and very straight to the point. Don't think he kept the best mental health and it shows in the book...he mentions nothing of Watts world title success but plenty of their falling out...he was bitter no doubt and I'm sure Watt's success would have been a double edged sword...good read all the same...watched Watt vs O'grady last night after reading this thread. good fight - Watt was in trouble but stuck it out before sticking the head into O'grady...both showed the heart it takes...don't think the O'grady family liked their whole Glasgow experience tho with death threats and general unpleasantness...happy days Didn,t the o,grady family set up thier own boxing association after tha fight , just to make sean a world champion ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BORDERSCOT 3,816 Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Unfair to call Jim Watt a joke - granted he wasn't flamboyant or exciting to watch. But from the perspective of a purist he was a very good technical fighter who won and then defended his title 4 times before losing to an all time great. That said though I doubt very much if he would have reached the heights he did without Terry Lawless - he had a great stable of fighters in the 80s, Watt, Magri, Hope etc...all good times. I was a big Lawless fan - every time he was interviewed he made sense and knew what he was on about. Most of all though he seemed to have a relationship with his fighters that transcended the normal manager/fighter relationship. He woulda looked after them...more than others perhaps!!! Gnasher you'll be able to give an insight into Lawless be good to read what you think??? Ha Donkeyears - Watt didn't half spank Ireland's Charlie Nash tho eh???? Bigot???? Where you get that???? I have a book here called Three Tears for Glasgow written by Jim Watt's original manager Jimmy Murray - met him once or twice and he gave me a signed copy of the book - a really emotionally charged insight into the Glasgow of old, fighters of yesteryear (he knew dozens) Watt's early career and his hatred of authority as well as Jim Murray's take on life - which I must admit was unorthodox and very straight to the point. Don't think he kept the best mental health and it shows in the book...he mentions nothing of Watts world title success but plenty of their falling out...he was bitter no doubt and I'm sure Watt's success would have been a double edged sword...good read all the same...watched Watt vs O'grady last night after reading this thread. good fight - Watt was in trouble but stuck it out before sticking the head into O'grady...both showed the heart it takes...don't think the O'grady family liked their whole Glasgow experience tho with death threats and general unpleasantness...happy days Didn,t the o,grady family set up thier own boxing association after tha fight , just to make sean a world champion ? Yeah - that's right the WAA World Athletic Association. He won the WBA title from Hilmer Kenty - O'Grady's story is a good one and like Watt he has gone on to be a success at what he decided to do with his life after boxing... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
onion jonny 526 Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 watt was a decent champ, but the bubble gum kid(o grady) had the beaten of him that night, buchanan was a better boxer than watt and if i remember correctly beat watt quite convincenly although it went the distance, intresting thing about kb was that he was voted the boxer of the year by the american boxing writers in 1970 topping ali , plus he went to puerto rico to win the title against laguna. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lanesra 3,961 Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Don't know how good Jim Watt was , as a Commentator I can't listen too him he seems to opinionate as the fight progresses I.e. if the fight has swung 1 way then another so would off his opinion ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 29,756 Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 blown up thomas herns choise to move through the weights to prove he could fight at differant divsions the praticality of gaining and holding weight while traing hard in its self deserves respect and challenge for titles to imply the were just blown up dont think you understand their motivation behind boxing through the divisions Its very rare for a fighter to finish his career the same weight he started at.....It would of been impossible for Hearns to stay at welterweight or Duran at lightweight.......to me " blown up " means forcing weight on like Leonard did to make the fight with Hagler......but the way Hearns and Duran moved through the weights was a pretty natural progression. Gnasher clear your inbox Sorted Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 29,756 Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 (edited) Unfair to call Jim Watt a joke - granted he wasn't flamboyant or exciting to watch. But from the perspective of a purist he was a very good technical fighter who won and then defended his title 4 times before losing to an all time great. That said though I doubt very much if he would have reached the heights he did without Terry Lawless - he had a great stable of fighters in the 80s, Watt, Magri, Hope etc...all good times. I was a big Lawless fan - every time he was interviewed he made sense and knew what he was on about. Most of all though he seemed to have a relationship with his fighters that transcended the normal manager/fighter relationship. He woulda looked after them...more than others perhaps!!! Gnasher you'll be able to give an insight into Lawless be good to read what you think??? Cracking post there Borderscot.....i totally agree about Jim Watt... to take the title off a big name of the day,defend it a few times before losing to one of the greats......you cant ask for much more than that. Its an old cliche but Terry Lawless really was a 1 in a million sort of person.....he was a man obssessed with physical strength and fitness he really was way ahead of his time in terms of diet and training regimes......a great quality he had was he treated everybody equally.....it didnt matter if you was a world champion or a journeyman he would take equal time and care over you....its soft to say but i really had a lot of affection for the man he was straight down the line with me from the start he said i was never going to win titles but if i dedicated myself i could make a living off the game....he kind of shattered my dreams but gained my trust in one hit ......his greatest asset was simply that he cared... he treated fighters like they were his sons not just from the point of view of not getting hurt,but financially as well....he was in constant battles with promoters he hated Duff,Barrett,Levene and all the other promoters of the time because they was simply making money and Terry wasnt about that.......At that time The Oak was the most succesful gym in the country we had fighters coming from all over England for sparring and Terry would send some of us all over for paid sparring his philosophy was " spar hard,fight easy " he would know just by watching spars what a fighter had deep within and that meant he never really had to gamble with the matches he made........60% of his stable were lads like me just domestic level and journeymen earning a crust,then maybe 30% were British/European title level people like Kaylor,Jimmy Batten,Johnny Gardiner,Jimmy Mac......and then the 10% elite fighters like Bruno,Magri,Mo Hope etc......but he made everyone train together,training was split between The Oak the Thomas a Beckett and the Henry Cooper but we all ran together skipped together and Terry knew the effect that had on youngsters....Jim Watt,John Stracey,Mo Hope they were a generation ahead of me but to have them take you on the pads or work your corner in a spar really brought that little bit extra out of you and Terry was clever like that,it kind of forged a loyalty and solidarity not so much to him but to each other he was a very clever man he just made you want to please him but not through being an authority just by being your friend. Mickey Duff once said you cant be a nice man AND be a boxing manager...........but Terry Lawless was one of the nicest most sincere men you could ever meet...................at his funeral there was a 3 foot high wreath saying " The Father of 50 Sons ".......which said everything. Sorry ive rambled on a bit .....but a thousand words still wouldnt do him justice ! Edited March 1, 2013 by gnasher16 17 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malt 379 Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Great thread this lads, very interesting! I'm not a hardcore boxing fan but I enjoy watching a good fight now and again. PPV spoiled it for me a bit if I'm honest, I don't mind paying for a decent scrap but after watching a succession of supposed big names knocking over no hopers, I started shying away from buying them all the time.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lanesra 3,961 Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Unfair to call Jim Watt a joke - granted he wasn't flamboyant or exciting to watch. But from the perspective of a purist he was a very good technical fighter who won and then defended his title 4 times before losing to an all time great. That said though I doubt very much if he would have reached the heights he did without Terry Lawless - he had a great stable of fighters in the 80s, Watt, Magri, Hope etc...all good times. I was a big Lawless fan - every time he was interviewed he made sense and knew what he was on about. Most of all though he seemed to have a relationship with his fighters that transcended the normal manager/fighter relationship. He woulda looked after them...more than others perhaps!!! Gnasher you'll be able to give an insight into Lawless be good to read what you think???Cracking post there Borderscot.....i totally agree about Jim Watt... to take the title off a big name of the day,defend it a few times before losing to one of the greats......you cant ask for much more than that.Its an old cliche but Terry Lawless really was a 1 in a million sort of person.....he was a man obssessed with physical strength and fitness he really was way ahead of his time in terms of diet and training regimes......a great quality he had was he treated everybody equally.....it didnt matter if you was a world champion or a journeyman he would take equal time and care over you....its soft to say but i really had a lot of affection for the man he was straight down the line with me from the start he said i was never going to win titles but if i dedicated myself i could make a living off the game....he kind of shattered my dreams but gained my trust in one hit ......his greatest asset was simply that he cared... he treated fighters like they were his sons not just from the point of view of not getting hurt,but financially as well....he was in constant battles with promoters he hated Duff,Barrett,Levene and all the other promoters of the time because they was simply making money and Terry wasnt about that.......At that time The Oak was the most succesful gym in the country we had fighters coming from all over England for sparring and Terry would send some of us all over for paid sparring his philosophy was " spar hard,fight easy " he would know just by watching spars what a fighter had deep within and that meant he never really had to gamble with the matches he made........60% of his stable were lads like me just domestic level and journeymen earning a crust,then maybe 30% were British/European title level people like Kaylor,Jimmy Batten,Johnny Gardiner,Jimmy Mac......and then the 10% elite fighters like Bruno,Magri,Mo Hope etc......but he made everyone train together,training was split between The Oak the Thomas a Beckett and the Henry Cooper but we all ran together skipped together and Terry knew the effect that had on youngsters....Jim Watt,John Stracey,Mo Hope they were a generation ahead of me but to have them take you on the pads or work your corner in a spar really brought that little bit extra out of you and Terry was clever like that,it kind of forged a loyalty and solidarity not so much to him but to each other he was a very clever man he just made you want to please him but not through being an authority just by being your friend. Mickey Duff once said you cant be a nice man AND be a boxing manager...........but Terry Lawless was one of the nicest most sincere men you could ever meet...................at his funeral there was a 3 foot high wreath saying " The Father of 50 Sons ".......which said everything. Sorry ive rambled on a bit .....but a thousand words still wouldnt do him justice ! Cracking bit of Insight into the Real World Of Boxing Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dytkos 17,569 Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 Unfair to call Jim Watt a joke - granted he wasn't flamboyant or exciting to watch. But from the perspective of a purist he was a very good technical fighter who won and then defended his title 4 times before losing to an all time great. That said though I doubt very much if he would have reached the heights he did without Terry Lawless - he had a great stable of fighters in the 80s, Watt, Magri, Hope etc...all good times. I was a big Lawless fan - every time he was interviewed he made sense and knew what he was on about. Most of all though he seemed to have a relationship with his fighters that transcended the normal manager/fighter relationship. He woulda looked after them...more than others perhaps!!! Gnasher you'll be able to give an insight into Lawless be good to read what you think??? Cracking post there Borderscot.....i totally agree about Jim Watt... to take the title off a big name of the day,defend it a few times before losing to one of the greats......you cant ask for much more than that. Its an old cliche but Terry Lawless really was a 1 in a million sort of person.....he was a man obssessed with physical strength and fitness he really was way ahead of his time in terms of diet and training regimes......a great quality he had was he treated everybody equally.....it didnt matter if you was a world champion or a journeyman he would take equal time and care over you....its soft to say but i really had a lot of affection for the man he was straight down the line with me from the start he said i was never going to win titles but if i dedicated myself i could make a living off the game....he kind of shattered my dreams but gained my trust in one hit ......his greatest asset was simply that he cared... he treated fighters like they were his sons not just from the point of view of not getting hurt,but financially as well....he was in constant battles with promoters he hated Duff,Barrett,Levene and all the other promoters of the time because they was simply making money and Terry wasnt about that.......At that time The Oak was the most succesful gym in the country we had fighters coming from all over England for sparring and Terry would send some of us all over for paid sparring his philosophy was " spar hard,fight easy " he would know just by watching spars what a fighter had deep within and that meant he never really had to gamble with the matches he made........60% of his stable were lads like me just domestic level and journeymen earning a crust,then maybe 30% were British/European title level people like Kaylor,Jimmy Batten,Johnny Gardiner,Jimmy Mac......and then the 10% elite fighters like Bruno,Magri,Mo Hope etc......but he made everyone train together,training was split between The Oak the Thomas a Beckett and the Henry Cooper but we all ran together skipped together and Terry knew the effect that had on youngsters....Jim Watt,John Stracey,Mo Hope they were a generation ahead of me but to have them take you on the pads or work your corner in a spar really brought that little bit extra out of you and Terry was clever like that,it kind of forged a loyalty and solidarity not so much to him but to each other he was a very clever man he just made you want to please him but not through being an authority just by being your friend. Mickey Duff once said you cant be a nice man AND be a boxing manager...........but Terry Lawless was one of the nicest most sincere men you could ever meet...................at his funeral there was a 3 foot high wreath saying " The Father of 50 Sons ".......which said everything. Sorry ive rambled on a bit .....but a thousand words still wouldnt do him justice ! Great post Gnash, obviously a man in the know. Cheers, D. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BORDERSCOT 3,816 Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 Unfair to call Jim Watt a joke - granted he wasn't flamboyant or exciting to watch. But from the perspective of a purist he was a very good technical fighter who won and then defended his title 4 times before losing to an all time great. That said though I doubt very much if he would have reached the heights he did without Terry Lawless - he had a great stable of fighters in the 80s, Watt, Magri, Hope etc...all good times. I was a big Lawless fan - every time he was interviewed he made sense and knew what he was on about. Most of all though he seemed to have a relationship with his fighters that transcended the normal manager/fighter relationship. He woulda looked after them...more than others perhaps!!! Gnasher you'll be able to give an insight into Lawless be good to read what you think??? Cracking post there Borderscot.....i totally agree about Jim Watt... to take the title off a big name of the day,defend it a few times before losing to one of the greats......you cant ask for much more than that. Its an old cliche but Terry Lawless really was a 1 in a million sort of person.....he was a man obssessed with physical strength and fitness he really was way ahead of his time in terms of diet and training regimes......a great quality he had was he treated everybody equally.....it didnt matter if you was a world champion or a journeyman he would take equal time and care over you....its soft to say but i really had a lot of affection for the man he was straight down the line with me from the start he said i was never going to win titles but if i dedicated myself i could make a living off the game....he kind of shattered my dreams but gained my trust in one hit ......his greatest asset was simply that he cared... he treated fighters like they were his sons not just from the point of view of not getting hurt,but financially as well....he was in constant battles with promoters he hated Duff,Barrett,Levene and all the other promoters of the time because they was simply making money and Terry wasnt about that.......At that time The Oak was the most succesful gym in the country we had fighters coming from all over England for sparring and Terry would send some of us all over for paid sparring his philosophy was " spar hard,fight easy " he would know just by watching spars what a fighter had deep within and that meant he never really had to gamble with the matches he made........60% of his stable were lads like me just domestic level and journeymen earning a crust,then maybe 30% were British/European title level people like Kaylor,Jimmy Batten,Johnny Gardiner,Jimmy Mac......and then the 10% elite fighters like Bruno,Magri,Mo Hope etc......but he made everyone train together,training was split between The Oak the Thomas a Beckett and the Henry Cooper but we all ran together skipped together and Terry knew the effect that had on youngsters....Jim Watt,John Stracey,Mo Hope they were a generation ahead of me but to have them take you on the pads or work your corner in a spar really brought that little bit extra out of you and Terry was clever like that,it kind of forged a loyalty and solidarity not so much to him but to each other he was a very clever man he just made you want to please him but not through being an authority just by being your friend. Mickey Duff once said you cant be a nice man AND be a boxing manager...........but Terry Lawless was one of the nicest most sincere men you could ever meet...................at his funeral there was a 3 foot high wreath saying " The Father of 50 Sons ".......which said everything. Sorry ive rambled on a bit .....but a thousand words still wouldnt do him justice ! Really enjoyed reading your views Gnasher - it's plain to see that you have the highest regard for Terry Lawless. I remember reading the newspaper obituaries at the time of his death and each and every one spoke of the relationships he had with the fighters he managed. Great stuff. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Floyd17586 454 Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 Just reading this lads some very interesting stuff but i think ye laDs went a bot pf track Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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