RUINATION OF LURCHERS

[boyo 1,398]

in the seventies when the shows were first starting up it would be fair to say that most lurchers seen at a show were also worked i would say that the percentage worked today thats seen at shows is very small in my own opinion.WORKING LURCHER now lets narrow that down what one owner calls working their lurcher another ,person would laugh at .my own opinion is theres lurchers that work and then theres WORKING LURCHERS,same breed but totally differant animals in lifestyle and what they do.what i will say is the average lurcher today is looked after much better than the average lurcher was in the early days of shows and is in much better condition.as for the ones that show and race only what does it really matter as long as they look after their dogs and get enjoyment out of them . and a good looking lurcher is a good looking lurcher whether its out every day and night or not worked at all. take the shows for what they were intended in the first place a day out in the summer to enjoy with other dog folk who you might only usually see or meet in the winter.

[brookie 1,193]

Kittlerox,20-30yrs and as far back as the 70's saluki crosses were very popular in the merseyside area due to it being a hotbed for coursing at the time,I coursed down south where there were many saluki coursing clubs,certain crosses can get very popular in regions and due to the fact there was no internet or weekly journal to buy nationally at that time not many knew of how good certain crosses could be for some species of hunting.I remember going to a show in Exeter as recent 1987 with a 3/4 bred collie greyhound and nobody knew what it was,he caused quite a stir on the day as the entire lurcher schedule was filled with saluki crosses and mine stood out like a sore thumb,Scotland used to be deerhound crosses and the midlands went over to collie crosses when plummer/hancock collaborated to invent fairy tales about "merle" and nowadays everyone is obsessed with Bullcrosses,as regards my comment on bulls being harsh,well thats just my opinion as I cannot see what they can bring that was not already there,they are smooth coated and show every mark,they have a high percentage of litter wastage,too heavy,poor feet,their joints wear out very fast causing arthritus,there are loads in my area at present and I've been out with quite a few and never seen one do well either lamping or daytime,I understand you will get the odd decent one as the crosses get nearer to the greyhound but there are too many pups that are too heavy to be of any real use in the field,I have just read about 14 pages on the thread about "GOLLY" bull crosses and nobody picked up the fact he died with major back and joint problems,surely not a good starting point for breeding a decent lurcher,this is the kind of weakening of the gene pool I talked about with this thread,atb,WM

wirral you talk my language .a very true post

[KittleRox 2,147]

Kittlerox,20-30yrs and as far back as the 70's saluki crosses were very popular in the merseyside area due to it being a hotbed for coursing at the time,I coursed down south where there were many saluki coursing clubs,certain crosses can get very popular in regions and due to the fact there was no internet or weekly journal to buy nationally at that time not many knew of how good certain crosses could be for some species of hunting.I remember going to a show in Exeter as recent 1987 with a 3/4 bred collie greyhound and nobody knew what it was,he caused quite a stir on the day as the entire lurcher schedule was filled with saluki crosses and mine stood out like a sore thumb,Scotland used to be deerhound crosses and the midlands went over to collie crosses when plummer/hancock collaborated to invent fairy tales about "merle" and nowadays everyone is obsessed with Bullcrosses,as regards my comment on bulls being harsh,well thats just my opinion as I cannot see what they can bring that was not already there,they are smooth coated and show every mark,they have a high percentage of litter wastage,too heavy,poor feet,their joints wear out very fast causing arthritus,there are loads in my area at present and I've been out with quite a few and never seen one do well either lamping or daytime,I understand you will get the odd decent one as the crosses get nearer to the greyhound but there are too many pups that are too heavy to be of any real use in the field,I have just read about 14 pages on the thread about "GOLLY" bull crosses and nobody picked up the fact he died with major back and joint problems,surely not a good starting point for breeding a decent lurcher,this is the kind of weakening of the gene pool I talked about with this thread,atb,WM

this is a pic from up my way from 23 yrs ago, as you can see the collie types are prodominent, use lot must,ve been away ahead of us lol

and just to add incase anyones getting the wrong idea, I,ve only been to about 6 shows in the last 20 + yrs, atb

 

[Guest Snitch99]

During the last couple of days there have been many posts on breeding off lurchers that have either jacked or had injuries early in their life and it got me thinking about the general demise and quality of todays pups,I blame most of it on lurcher and terrier shows becoming too popular,these shows started in the 70's by the likes of the Fell and moorland,etc,were first put on as a bit of summer fun and for fundraising,charities,etc,but were soon taken over as a mainstream event for profit,the first shows were only attended by well worked dogs and were judged by good dog men (as it should be) but as time has gone by we have been taken over by untested,unworked lurchers kept in runs never seeing a field from one week to the next,these dogs that have won shows have now been bred off for over 30yrs producing a very poor gene pool,chasing a plastic bag round a few bends is in no way a test of a dog and yet people are buying dogs from this type and in some cases there are waiting lists for them,there are still some good lurchers being bred to the old standards but they are now in the minority,what next ?? pedigree lurchers LOL's

This is one for the older lads to pass comment on,atb,WM

 

read for first line of your message, what an idiot you are, its people like you who bring quality of lurchers down, i know people who known you for years you start all your pups on hares at 8 months old in the summer. funny how people become people thier not via internet..

 

seriously deluded......

[Rabbiting man 1,192]

A lot of it is what you read in books & sporting papers, like an article that John Glover put in the Countryman's weekly about breeding off a young dog.

[sounder 9]

A letter i wrote to the shooting times 30 years ago.

now there food for thought

[birddog 1,354]

both my bitches were bred entirely for work, they both work perhaps sometimes a tad too hard in the dark winter months, both have won rosettes, does that make them show ponies? i'm considering breeding my older bitch next year and there are show and race winning dogs in my home town but i'm looking to use a dog from top class proven lines who himself has worked well (he's also won shows) but with a round trip of over 600 miles hardly local eh. i've also judged quite a few shows over the years and always tried to put up workers not always possible i've put up lame dogs whose conformation was spot on but due to a working injury they limp, i'd have a pup out of a 'cripple' like that would you? show's aren't the ruination of lurchers far from it, they give an opening for beginners, they introduce many of us to new friends, ideas and potential mates for our workers. the lack of personal standards and values are the ruination (potentially) of lurchers. it's up to everyone not to be kennel blind and be honest about our dogs pro's and con's and if we feel they are good enough to breed to pick a mate accordingly

[Casso 1,261]

The ruination of lurchers will ultimate come from the ban, maybe not in the next few years but in 20 or so years , purpose begat's form, and when the ban eventually chokes the life out of the hare dog as we know it, smaller whippety running dogs will very much come in fashion,

 

the ability to test a hare gives us the form of that dog for that purpose, without the real quarry the test the endurance and speed , the hare dog will just become a replica of the tried and tested running dog of today, maybe a few years down the road for the older guys on here but its on the horizon for the next generation, shows will become more popular and coursing dogs will be tested on the lure,

[hillbilly boy 109]

with popularity some people see a opening to make money.not a dig at whippets but with their recent popularity look how many litters are being bred nowadays.lurcher shows,books,etc all boosted the lurchers popularity in some cases working ability isnt the first thing on breeders minds.

Agreed mate but it is our jobs as genuine dog men to put the time in and source the correct pups from genuine working stock and not just pick from the first litter we come across. Some times people get from inferior stock just cause its convienant for them as the are not willing to travel for the proper stuff for me i would drive from one end of the country to the other just to make sure ive got the right dog.

[Phil Lloyd 10,739]

Well,..the auld lurcher has not been ruined for me...not at all...

 

Other than accidents,..I don't hunt deer or hares anymore,..the rabbiting game will see me out..

 

Lads that want to use their dogs, on other quarry, will do so, regardless of any foolish bans and suchlike..

 

Personaly, I think lads are far more educated as regards feeding, housing and conditioning their dogs, than when I was a boy...Nowadays, there is no excuse for acting like a c**t and ill-treating jukels,.or ferrets, etc,..

 

I can't wait to get back out there , working up the rough, hunting through the woods, running out the long nets and maybe a wee bit of dazzle, dazzle,...

 

No,.the lurcher ain't ruined,..he is just staying cool,...and like me, waiting patiently...

[Stabs 3]

I love that Chalky

[Simoman 110]

Spot on chalky. As for shows, i think there a good thing, for those who take them as they are, a fun day and a bit of craic, those that chase the rossette and breed for looks are never really that dedicated to the working side anyway...............

[lurcher330 2,301]

A well kept working dog should look better than any show dog ,never mind colour, scares or the cheese wire collars on the dogs,a lurcher capable of doing well at shows should be a well toned animal ,allowing for a slight bit of extra weight from maybe not working during the summer months but not over weight because weather their working or not they should be getting at least an hour of exercise a day and food cut accordingly to suit it's regime .

 

But the show dogs will be more popular at shows if the working dog lads refuse to show their with the attitude that it is only for show ponies.

[chartpolski 27,444]

The Lurcher is allways changing and evolving. This is what seperates it from it's KC cousins.In my life time I've witnessed the rise of the Saluki Hybrid and the Bull Cross. These were virtualy non-existent when I started. Have they improved the Lurcher ? I'd say yes in both cases. Shows have changed massively since I started, and I still think the Lurcher is going in three directions, Show, Race and Work. This won't be to the detriment of the WORKING Lurcher; they will still be bred by lads who want workers. But the show and race types will proliferate,and prices will go up and up. I'm also happy to see the rising popularity of the Whippet, but unhappy at the haphazzard breeding and the ridiculous prices. The recent post about the "accidental" breeding from an 11 month pup and the £350 price tag says it all !!! REAL workers will continue to be bred and worked by genuine Lurcher Men, we just have to hope the "fly-by-nights" move on to something else, when they get bored of Lurchers !

 

Cheers.

[Casso 1,261]

yeah, there is no doubt we are all well aware of animal welfare and working dogs have become part and parcel of the family, well fed and better treated on the whole

 

mistreating animals dog's included is a huge one in society today ,animal cops this and that, dogs are probably leading the way as the model of how animals should be looked after which is great, years of neglect have gone on,

 

But on the flip side which is following on, on the coat tails of animal care is the Ban, which is also in how we treat animals wild or not, you cant have one without the other, you can't elevate one animal out of the many without the sentiment carrying on in how society feels about the rest and thats the biggest threat to the working dog man of tomorrow,,

 

happy hunting long may it last,