Trump Under Fire

[WILF 44,322]

 

Mate, where I live now, just over a hundred years ago the British burnt a village to the ground and shot half the inhabitants........but they all still support Chelsea and Man Unt and they all still fly out to work in England every Monday.

So you don't reckon your Irish neighbours would want rid of a historic monument to British rule in their home town? There wouldn't be much democratic about their actions in such a situation, lol. Just blow the c**t up I'd imagine.

I honestly can't see the problem with this. It's just part of culture, statues and shit carry an emotional baggage, as irrational as that might be.

You have missed the fundamental difference in the two scenarios........one would be a tribute to what is seen as foreign invader but in the case of Charlottesville they are ALL Americans.

 

There is an IRA memorial near me but I'm sure not everybody has a taste for their actions, none the less it remains because the people who don't like the IRA don't pay it any mind.

[Born Hunter 17,638]

 

 

Mate, where I live now, just over a hundred years ago the British burnt a village to the ground and shot half the inhabitants........but they all still support Chelsea and Man Unt and they all still fly out to work in England every Monday.

So you don't reckon your Irish neighbours would want rid of a historic monument to British rule in their home town? There wouldn't be much democratic about their actions in such a situation, lol. Just blow the c**t up I'd imagine.

I honestly can't see the problem with this. It's just part of culture, statues and shit carry an emotional baggage, as irrational as that might be.

You have missed the fundamental difference in the two scenarios........one would be a tribute to what is seen as foreign invader but in the case of Charlottesville they are ALL Americans.

 

There is an IRA memorial near me but I'm sure not everybody has a taste for their actions, none the less it remains because the people who don't like the IRA don't pay it any mind.

 

 

I get the difference mate, I just don't see why it would be understandable for a statue of a foreign invader to cause upset and therefore be removed but not understandable for the same sentiment and actions regarding a monument to the subjugation of an racial group. Is who you were subjugated by the significant factor here?

Edited September 6, 2017 by Born Hunter

[WILF 44,322]

Maybe it is mate?.......just not in my way of thinking.

I mean taken to it logical (or illogical) conclusion you'd be taking down statues all over the show wouldn't you........Budica (so as not offend anyone of Italian ancestry) Nelson (don't want to upset anyone with links to Spain or France) Montgomery (just in case anyone had a German grandad) you'd give back Cleopatras needle cause we really shouldn't have nicked that, Cromwell (don't want to upset anyone who's of Irish ancestry) Bobby More (there's them Germans again)..........I mean you could go on and on.

 

Or.......you could stay sane and say "that was then and this is now, it happened, there's a lesson in it......let's crack on"

Nah mate.......this is an agenda, it's plain as day.......but this type of shit isn't just happening in Charlottesville.......it's happening all over the world and normal folk are the victims.

It has to be guarded against where ever you see it imho

[VOON 1,313]

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/9/6/16262732/trump-deal-congress-democrats

[ChrisJones 7,973]

Doesn't seem worth starting a new thread but this UN investigation into the chemical weapons attacks in Syria is interesting.

 

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-mideast-crisis-syria-warcrimes/syrian-government-forces-used-chemical-weapons-more-than-two-dozen-times-u-n-idUKKCN1BH19Z

 

Seems to me this information supports vindication of Trump's unilateral Tomahawk strike on the Syrian base earlier this year. It also stands in opposition to the conspiracies, largely pushed by the alt-right flavour of non interventionists, that insist the attacks are all false flags carried out by the CIA/the rebels/Mossad etc.

 

I'd credit that to military strategists. Even BNN said it had McMasters hand all over it.

 

Or.......you could stay sane and say "that was then and this is now, it happened, there's a lesson in it......let's crack on"

 

I'm firmly in the camp of "Public land hosting a private monument using public funds to maintain private monument." I wouldn't want my tax $ to fund it. Same way I wouldn't want any public money to fund private interests in this area. There's definitely an agenda, mate. Always was. Always will be. I liken it to this protest by the church of satan. Essentially saying that if you're going to use public money to express an agenda we can play on the same field. In the end, the desired result was achieved. No public money was used.

 

Like it or not there are massive sections of America that disagree with us entirely. Middle America is disgusted with its history of segregation. These monuments to the past will slowly be removed through public lobbying and the democratic process. The remaining ones will be in purely historical context. Again at the risk of invoking Godwin's law, it's like in the old GDR how those statues were removed and are now verboten. I can genuinely see why they would want to do that as there's some that believe the past isn't always worth commemorating... Like England's 94 World Cup campaign...

[Born Hunter 17,638]

 

Doesn't seem worth starting a new thread but this UN investigation into the chemical weapons attacks in Syria is interesting.

 

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-mideast-crisis-syria-warcrimes/syrian-government-forces-used-chemical-weapons-more-than-two-dozen-times-u-n-idUKKCN1BH19Z

 

Seems to me this information supports vindication of Trump's unilateral Tomahawk strike on the Syrian base earlier this year. It also stands in opposition to the conspiracies, largely pushed by the alt-right flavour of non interventionists, that insist the attacks are all false flags carried out by the CIA/the rebels/Mossad etc.

 

I'd credit that to military strategists. Even BNN said it had McMasters hand all over it.

 

 

Of course, I don't doubt that. But Trump is the Commander in Chief, the head of the executive government, the buck stops with him. He's ultimately responsible for such high level actions and the primary target of discontent in the case of bad decisions. If he had made a bad decision based on his appointed adviser's recommendations then he'd be held responsible, if he had made a good decision but his advisers were poorly qualified or in some way found lacking then he'd still be held responsible for surrounding himself with incompetence.

 

Not that I'm suggesting he has surrounded himself with poor staff in this case. McMaster and Mattis appear reassuring choices indeed!

[WILF 44,322]

 

Doesn't seem worth starting a new thread but this UN investigation into the chemical weapons attacks in Syria is interesting.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-mideast-crisis-syria-warcrimes/syrian-government-forces-used-chemical-weapons-more-than-two-dozen-times-u-n-idUKKCN1BH19Z

 

Seems to me this information supports vindication of Trump's unilateral Tomahawk strike on the Syrian base earlier this year. It also stands in opposition to the conspiracies, largely pushed by the alt-right flavour of non interventionists, that insist the attacks are all false flags carried out by the CIA/the rebels/Mossad etc.

 

I'd credit that to military strategists. Even BNN said it had McMasters hand all over it.

 

Or.......you could stay sane and say "that was then and this is now, it happened, there's a lesson in it......let's crack on"

 

I'm firmly in the camp of "Public land hosting a private monument using public funds to maintain private monument." I wouldn't want my tax $ to fund it. Same way I wouldn't want any public money to fund private interests in this area. There's definitely an agenda, mate. Always was. Always will be. I liken it to this protest by the church of satan. Essentially saying that if you're going to use public money to express an agenda we can play on the same field. In the end, the desired result was achieved. No public money was used.

 

Like it or not there are massive sections of America that disagree with us entirely. Middle America is disgusted with its history of segregation. These monuments to the past will slowly be removed through public lobbying and the democratic process. The remaining ones will be in purely historical context. Again at the risk of invoking Godwin's law, it's like in the old GDR how those statues were removed and are now verboten. I can genuinely see why they would want to do that as there's some that believe the past isn't always worth commemorating... Like England's 94 World Cup campaign...

As always mate you clearly present the flip side of the coin and there really isn't much I can say I disagree with because it's valid..............I just don't think any of it is necessary.

In a world going to shit.......what's the need to find more battles.

 

On a more humorous note, as far as yanks being ashamed of their history I'd say steady on........they only have 5 minutes worth to play with! Lol

[WILF 44,322]

As an aside, is the statue of Custer or a re-name of the town of Forsyth next I wonder ?..........or are they having a "time out" on that period of American history?

Edited September 7, 2017 by WILF

[ChrisJones 7,973]

As always mate you clearly present the flip side of the coin and there really isn't much I can say I disagree with because it's valid..............I just don't think any of it is necessary.

In a world going to shit.......what's the need to find more battles.

 

On a more humorous note, as far as yanks being ashamed of their history I'd say steady on........they only have 5 minutes worth to play with! Lol

That's the beauty of us higher primates. We often can't see the wood for the trees. If we focused purely on necessity we'd probably be a lot further along. But like you and I waxing lyrical on here the not necessary can be a lot of fun and distracting for being just what it is.

 

As an aside, is the statue of Custer or a re-name of the town of Forsyth next I wonder ?..........or are they having a "time out" on that period of American history?

History is always written by the winners. Always. Facts and narrative aren't always related. Walk through your average graveyard. The older the stones the higher the level of rot and disrepair. As the time passes they are forgotten and eventually someone is applying for planning permission to turn this place of rest into luxury apartments.

 

Richard III was found in an unmarked grave, under a carpark. That should be a lesson to all of us.

[VOON 1,313]

https://www.ft.com/content/178f2c4a-973f-11e7-a652-cde3f882dd7b

 

May applying a bit of pressure.....

[VOON 1,313]

http://uk.businessinsider.com

[VOON 1,313]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-41356836

[VOON 1,313]

http://uk.businessinsider.com/rep-mike-quigley-discusses-trump-russia-investigation-2017-9?r=US&IR=T

[VOON 1,313]

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump

 

This clown should be relieved of his office immediately......

[VOON 1,313]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/25/north-korea-says-donald-trump-has-declared-war/