Texas shooting

[Jonjon79 13,340]

They're never going to change it now - it'd be impossible to take all of those guns away from people.

 

If I lived over there, I'd want a gun - as the saying goes 'it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.'

[WILF 44,323]

If politicians hadn’t proved time and time again that if you give them an inch they will take a mile then there may be room to talk about it……but that’s not how these people operate !

Look at the UK, terror laws used to look in peoples rubbish bins, cctv used as fine collectors rather than to protect people, a wad of cash basically outlawed……all pushed through using double speak and worst case scenario and folks go “oh yeah, that’s makes sense” until it’s getting used for everything else except the thing they said it was for.

Its like the new crime bill that gives police the power to decide what protest is legitimate and not legitimate on the spot……it’s a massive restriction of basic freedoms in a supposed free country and will only get used to silence protests the government don’t like or that don’t fit the narrative.

But they add in a clause that says “sex offenders will get life” (they won’t !) and every go’s “oh, that’s fantastic !”

Nah, it f***ing ain’t, read the small print !

I hope the NRA don’t give one inch, not one !, because the government can’t be trusted…….which is exactly why the right to bare arms exists ! 

[mackem 23,801]

The ban on assault rifles was lifted in 2004,look at the growth in mass shootings, its like a cancer tumor, growing rapidly. 

 

[WILF 44,323]

13 minutes ago, mackem said:

The ban on assault rifles was lifted in 2004,look at the growth in mass shootings, its like a cancer tumor, growing rapidly. 

 

I suppose the inherent danger in freedom is that there is lots you can’t regulate or calculate for……the BIG question is, is that a price worth paying ?

When you see innocent little kids slaughtered like this everyone’s first response is “No”………but the next question is, imho, “what about every kid that’s going to grow up?” 
 

Do we have the right to allow the government to take away more of their freedoms ?

I have only ever lived here and in the UK so I can only speak about that with any experience, but look at what we have allowed here !

My kids will never know a time when you could say what you want, about anything you want and to who you want without risk of being put in jail !……that’s massive imho ! 
 

They will never know a time when you could carry around a chunk of readies of your own money and not have to have a very good excuse why you have it or where it came from. 
 

They won’t know a time when they are not under practically 24 hour surveillance by the state !

And the more we “give” the more they take.

That, imho, is every bit as disgusting…..that ain’t living, that’s something else imho.

Its a cage without bars.

Now, I don’t really see anyone has a need to own a fully automatic assault rifle….but…..I don’t see the need for anyone to own Gucci loafers but they do because they want to and that’s really the point, freedom means the freedom to do what you want as long as you don’t physically hurt anyone.

The minute you do, well, there’s laws for that…..we do away with any rights at our peril.

[Born Hunter 17,638]

54 minutes ago, mackem said:

The ban on assault rifles was lifted in 2004,look at the growth in mass shootings, its like a cancer tumor, growing rapidly. 

 

Yeah but they were legal before 94 too. It was a ten year ban. Why wasn’t there a spike in mass shooting before the ban? What did the ban achieve?

[mackem 23,801]

7 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

 Why wasn’t there a spike in mass shooting before the ban?

Dont know, people change, different mindset, less tension, who knows. 

[WILF 44,323]

14 minutes ago, mackem said:

Dont know, people change, different mindset, less tension, who knows. 

There you have it, it’s not “the gun”, it’s the people…..ban the gun is way too simplistic.

[mackem 23,801]

5 minutes ago, WILF said:

There you have it, it’s not “the gun”, it’s the people…..ban the gun is way too simplistic.

But the gun makes it far easier to commit mayhem does it not?

[WILF 44,323]

30 minutes ago, mackem said:

But the gun makes it far easier to commit mayhem does it not?

It does, but getting rid of the tool doesn’t deal with the disease and potentially has wider implications for completely innocent people…..

See, every time we allow another freedom to be taken, every time we allow another bit of madness from the government the question (imho) should always be “Whats next ?” 
 

Giving away freedoms is a very bad habit, and the more we do it the easier it becomes to do….

Before you know it, the only people who are helpless or don’t have a say are the completely law abiding people who have done and have no intention of doing anything wrong.

That MP Jo Cox that was shot the other year, now we can blame the gun if we want…..and we do because it’s the very easiest thing to do, we can call the bloke just a nutter, also easy…..

Whats hard is having conversations about why an ordinary bloke like him feels so hopeless, over looked, undermined, attacked and meaningless in his own land that he feels this is all he has left to do ?……we don’t want to talk about that because it forces some uncomfortable answers that our politicians (and in many cases ourselves) just don’t want to talk about.

In a world where ordinary people are getting poorer while watching politicians go through money like water, where people spend their daily lives under surveillance, where they will never live to pay off their 400,000 ex council 3 bed semi if indeed they can afford the 40,000 deposit and every bit of their life accounted for to buy one in the first place, when they see their history wiped out, are encouraged into credit and debt they can’t afford, send their kids to over subscribed schools and can’t see a doctor while absolute animals run amok around them seemingly buck shee……when faced with this perfect storm of shit and pressure that so, so many people are living with……is it any wonder that people snap ? 
 

I know blokes with very good jobs, two people working who live very ordinary and modest lives and they ain’t got £100 at the end of the week for a meal out…..and what they do have is probably going to get rinsed off them in a 30 handed police check point or with a parking fine.

Do everything right, still poor and treated like shit for their trouble.

THOSE are the questions and the things that need dealing with, deal with what society is doing to peoples mental health…..not with the tools they use when it finally pushes them over the edge. 

[mackem 23,801]

1 minute ago, WILF said:

It does

[WILF 44,323]

6 minutes ago, mackem said:

Would you feel better if he had killed 9 with a kitchen knife like the London Bridge attack ? 
 

Now, I know you wouldn’t and it’s a bit of a silly question but I’m sure you see where I’m going with it.

The death toll is meaningless really, 1 is too many…..better to deal with the disease and have none don’t you reckon ! 

Edited June 2, 2022 by WILF
Fat fingers spelling ! Lol

[chartpolski 20,414]

I don't know the answer to this.....the UK banned handguns and made all other firearms very hard to get, but that didn't stop the atrocities.

The Manchester Arena bombing was done with ingredients that can be bought at Asda and B & Q.

Anyone who is fanatical enough can kill numbers of people in many ways, like driving an HGV into a crowd, building a bomb, running amok with a blade.

Of course, the ease with which guns are available in America is a huge contributing factor, but would banning guns stop the fanatical nutter ? I doubt it, but it might make it harder for them.

Identifying and acting swiftly against the fanatics could be the answer, how many of these killers were already known to the security services, even on watch lists, but not arrested because of "human rights", fear of being accused of racism, etc ?

As I said, I don't have an answer......I doubt anyone has.

Cheers.

[mackem 23,801]

1 minute ago, chartpolski said:

I don't know the answer to this.....the UK banned handguns and made all other firearms very hard to get, but that didn't stop the atrocities.

Dunblane didn't stop mass shootings with the handgun ban charts, but mass shootings in the UK are incredibly rare bordering on the almost non-existent, there's 10 a week on average in the land of the free, its an every day phenomenon,criminologist can get together and hypothesise but its all hyperbole, no one knows the cause of the increase, no one knows the answer, there will be another shooting today, maybe two, and tomorrow, and the day after etc. 

[mackem 23,801]

Meanwhile, here.... 

Government tables bill to limit handguns, pledges to buy back assault-style weapons

WWW-CBC-CA.CDN.AMPPROJECT.ORG

 

[WILF 44,323]

11 minutes ago, mackem said:

Dunblane didn't stop mass shootings with the handgun ban charts, but mass shootings in the UK are incredibly rare bordering on the almost non-existent, there's 10 a week on average in the land of the free, its an every day phenomenon,criminologist can get together and hypothesise but its all hyperbole, no one knows the cause of the increase, no one knows the answer, there will be another shooting today, maybe two, and tomorrow, and the day after etc. 

none of us are scientists mate, and personally I don’t have an exam or a qualification to my name….so blokes like me have to look at things and ask questions we understand.

For me, the simplest question would be “What’s changed since the time when this wasn’t a thing” 

I also think you overlook the fundamental differences between the U.K. and the US in that post, the U.K. has no culture of guns and it never has…..America has and it always has.

Add to that America has 300,000,000 people compared to 70,000, 000 in the U.K. 

We just can’t make a comparison like that imho