Centrefire novice question.

[philpot 4,929]

I am going to put in for a variation soon although Humberside are not doing any tickets at the moment but nevertheless here is my question anyway.  My pal and myself have some decent sized perms and whilst we use .22lr and wmr, we are still fancying a .223 but as pointed out be our firearms officer, a .222, .223 and a .243 are all spot on for fox.  So gentlemen, what are the differences / merits in these cals for foxing.

Phil

[walshie 2,804]

Not much to choose between 222 and 223 as you'd expect. If you buy ammo, there's more availability and choice in 223. If you reload, it makes no difference. Advantage of a 243 is its a deer calibre as and when you get ground with deer on. 

223 is my preferred choice if I'm solely after fox but I have a 308 for deer, so that part doesn't come into it. If it's foxes and rabbits, 22hornet. 

[ianm 2,594]

Of the three calibres you have short listed i would go .243 all day long. Deer legal and if using 55/58grn bullets on fox very fast and flat which is a big advantage at night.

[shovel leaner 7,648]

If I was only going to have one rifle it would be a .243 . If you don’t reload your own you could try 58grn Winchester varmint X bullets , they are very good on Charlie . Then as has been said before you can go up to a 100 grn  for deer . 
         I have a .243 and I love it . I also have  two .223 rifles , one with a dedicated NV scope and the other with a normal day scope . The only reason I’ve got them is that they “were” the go to fox round , and everyone who shot foxes say twenty years ago had a .222 or a .223 , but there are some other calibers out now that fox shooters are talking about and Ianm is one and it is the .204 ruger . A friend has just employed an under keeper who shoots one and they are devastating. Also a 22-250 is an excellent fox round . The disadvantage of such calibers is probably availability of ammo but more places are stocking them now . Have a good think and don’t limit yourself to just those two calibers . If I was going for just a foxing round now the .204 ruger would be right up there .

[walshie 2,804]

Over to Alsone now......

[FOXHUNTER 5,020]

As said above .243 , one rifle does all ....i. e. Fox and deer.

[philpot 4,929]

Thanks guys, I should say that ammo costs do come into it albeit to a small degree as a retired ole tart, I do have to be a little careful although if I shoot enough, I will look into reloading to both help on cost but also for the enjoyment of reloading. I used to load shotgun shells for years until they were banned in CPSA competitions so I sold all that gear, more is the pity.

It is unlikely I will shoot deer other than muntjack occasionly.

Would the .243 be better in wind than the .222/.223

I have heard some very good things about Hornet .22 but I got the impression that they were getting few and far between with pricey ammo but I could be totally wrong in that.

Phil

[walshie 2,804]

42 minutes ago, philpot said:

Thanks guys, I should say that ammo costs do come into it albeit to a small degree as a retired ole tart, I do have to be a little careful although if I shoot enough, I will look into reloading to both help on cost but also for the enjoyment of reloading. I used to load shotgun shells for years until they were banned in CPSA competitions so I sold all that gear, more is the pity.

It is unlikely I will shoot deer other than muntjack occasionly.

Would the .243 be better in wind than the .222/.223

I have heard some very good things about Hornet .22 but I got the impression that they were getting few and far between with pricey ammo but I could be totally wrong in that.

Phil

22 hornets are fairly rare these days as a lot of people (for some odd reason) go for the 17 hornet which is gay. 22 hornets haven't got the legs of the other calibres mentioned but are good for fox up to 150/170 yards in my experience, and if everyone is honest, the majority of their shooting is within that range. Before anyone starts about their 400 yard fox shooting - I don't believe you and I said majority. 

[Stavross 13,795]

At the distance you will be shooting foxes the .243 and .223 act in a very similar way, using similar bullet weights so wind isn’t much of an issue with ether round, at the minute I’m putting 70gn ballistic tip for fox through my.243  purely because the rifle likes them, in the past I used 58gn, as said the up side to .243 is it’s deer legal and a 90gn sp is ideal for this task

[philpot 4,929]

55 minutes ago, walshie said:

22 hornets are fairly rare these days as a lot of people (for some odd reason) go for the 17 hornet which is gay. 22 hornets haven't got the legs of the other calibres mentioned but are good for fox up to 150/170 yards in my experience, and if everyone is honest, the majority of their shooting is within that range. Before anyone starts about their 400 yard fox shooting - I don't believe you and I said majority. 

It is about time you got a 'like' buttom Walshie.  To be honest I will not be shooting any further than 150 - 200 mts so lets take the long stuff out of the way.

I think I will not bother with either the Hornet and .22-250

Phil

[Alsone 789]

There are 2 schools of thought - .243 lets you do everything but if you want a bigger calibre for deer leaves you justifying your need for a bigger calibre over .243. Alternative is get a fox calibre and if you then have a need to shoot deer, buy a deer rifle, leaving yourself free to put in for whatever calibre you fancy for deer without the need to justify why you other rifle isn't sufficient. That's what my friend did. He decided on a .223 and then later put in for a .30-06 for deer. Neither would be my choice.

Shovel leaner's post pretty much sums up the mainstream fox calibres to consider. I put terminal effect before other considerations so have preferences to certain calibres. Others may place more value on comfort or availabilty. That said, I doubt you'll regret any of the calibres listed. My pesonal fox preference is the one I used to berate the most, .204. It had issues. They were sorted and now it's one of the best in my opinion.

[Deker 3,453]

222 is sweet as they come and tends to be rather accurate.    223 is more common today and just has the edge on .222, but the difference is marginal.

The .243 with a 55/58g V-Max is an absolute pussycat to shoot and accurate as they come with the right barrel twist.  It has the edge all round on the other 2 and I consider it the best longer distance fox calibres/ammo.

Everyone situation is different, it isn't just the calibre/ammo its about your circumstances/environment/distances/topography/etc/etc.    A calibre/ammo is only the best choice for you, someone else may find a different calibre perfect!

As also mentioned the .243 is ALL deer legal, the other 2 only smaller deer.

[philpot 4,929]

Thank you deker, barrel twist was the next item as I want to be able to use on the range as well as for foxing so twist is important for range work as I understand it.  I was advised that a 1in12 for example, would not be suitable for range work unless I had, say three shots,  rest it to cool down etc etc whereas a 1 in 9 would be fine for everything, I think that was the right way round.  Howa 1500, 223 is a 1 in 9 but I think the Tikka T3x is a 1 in 12.

A bit of a mine field is this but I cannot afford to get it wrong which is why I am looking into the situation in advance of putting in for the variation.

Thanks for the advise guys, I am out of my depth here but you know that.................

Phil

[Sausagedog 7,381]

2 hours ago, philpot said:

Thank you deker, barrel twist was the next item as I want to be able to use on the range as well as for foxing so twist is important for range work as I understand it.  I was advised that a 1in12 for example, would not be suitable for range work unless I had, say three shots,  rest it to cool down etc etc whereas a 1 in 9 would be fine for everything, I think that was the right way round.  Howa 1500, 223 is a 1 in 9 but I think the Tikka T3x is a 1 in 12.

A bit of a mine field is this but I cannot afford to get it wrong which is why I am looking into the situation in advance of putting in for the variation.

Thanks for the advise guys, I am out of my depth here but you know that.................

Phil

Twist has nothing to do with how a rifle shoots at range Phil.

It has everything to do with stabilising a bullet and is derived via a calculation of bullet length, weight, diameter and operating velocity.

Repeated shooting at a range requires generally speaking a heavier barrel but it's only a generalisation.

The theory is that as a barrel heats, the thicker one will not move. It's a bit of an assumption really because any barrel no matter how thick if not stress relieved properly will move as heat increases.

[Meece 1,957]

4 hours ago, Deker said:

222 is sweet as they come and tends to be rather accurate.    223 is more common today and just has the edge on .222, but the difference is marginal.

The .243 with a 55/58g V-Max is an absolute pussycat to shoot and accurate as they come with the right barrel twist.  It has the edge all round on the other 2 and I consider it the best longer distance fox calibres/ammo.

Everyone situation is different, it isn't just the calibre/ammo its about your circumstances/environment/distances/topography/etc/etc.    A calibre/ammo is only the best choice for you, someone else may find a different calibre perfect!

As also mentioned the .243 is ALL deer legal, the other 2 only smaller deer.

Pretty  much  as it is.  All this about new calls and old calls,  it's all a loads of nonsense. Dead is dead. It boils down to how deep your pocket is and how  much are you going to shoot.  Number 1 = top of the pops. =243 it will do the lot, but it is noisy and the ammo ain't cheap. = How deep is your pocket.?  ... if your just after Fox,  #2 =  22.250. Again ammo expensive and noisy. A 243 case necked down to 22. 3600 fps  #3 = 223 std round. #4 = 222 cheaper because gone out of fashion but exceptionally sweèt and accurate then if you want something a little different and a bit rarer the 220 swift or probably the king 1.7 Rem cf.  (Not 17HMR).   I would love to try a 1.7 Rem cf . == 4000+fps. Piano string accuracy out to 400 yes. But you got to ignore all the negative hype and myth stories about barrel wear and wind deviation ect.  It's like all the nonsense that is said about the 270 win. Again you don't need to drive a Ferrari flat out round town or shoot at stuff 2 miles away with a 20 power scope. Use fieldcraft to get close and you can use a 22lr.

Ps. I've got rifles in aĺl the above except the 1.7rem so I'm not biased towards any of them. =situation, size of land distance of shot, cost. How dead is dead.?