brexit, Coronavirus and the eu

[jetro 5,349]

23 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

 

Do you think there will be a major recession when this blows over, or will countries have a differant view on manufacturing their own products instead of importing them.

Atb j 

[WILF 44,334]

1 minute ago, jetro said:

Do you think there will be a major recession when this blows over, or will countries have a differant view on manufacturing their own products instead of importing them.

Atb j 

They will definitely find a way to use it as an excuse to nick your money, it’s up to us wether we let them.

 

[jetro 5,349]

1 minute ago, WILF said:

They will definitely find a way to use it as an excuse to nick your money, it’s up to us wether we let them.

 

Good luck to them with that, can't take what I don't have .

But it would give great incentive for the government to reopen closed factories in small towns and cities and rual parts to start manufacturing medical supplies. Stock pile them, because this is going to happen again, sooner rather than later too.

There's so many lessons to be learnt from this, if we're willing to learn 

Atb j 

[Born Hunter 17,639]

4 minutes ago, jetro said:

Do you think there will be a major recession when this blows over, or will countries have a differant view on manufacturing their own products instead of importing them.

Atb j 

Recession is two consecutive quarters of economic decline. The measures that we have taken have 100% caused an economic decline, we're much less productive right now. Will that go on for two consecutive quarters and how much of a decline.... I dunno mate.

I think it's worth pointing out though that this isn't quite the same as a normal recession or what happened in 2008. In 2008 the world found out part of it's economy, a significant part, was all a lie and then that cascaded. What's happening here is more like a 'hiatus', lol. In principle the meat and potatoes of our economy is still real and viable, it's just not turning right now. How/if that cascades into real industry losses I have no idea but what I'm getting at is that it will likely recover faster than if it was caused by something more 'normal' for a recession.

[WILF 44,334]

2 minutes ago, jetro said:

Good luck to them with that, can't take what I don't have .

But it would give great incentive for the government to reopen closed factories in small towns and cities and rual parts to start manufacturing medical supplies. Stock pile them, because this is going to happen again, sooner rather than later too.

There's so many lessons to be learnt from this, if we're willing to learn 

Atb j 

Imho (and experience) you create a team by increments (which is why I don’t buy Chris saying dictatorship go’s with nationalism)

Independant nation states who create a sense of value in themselves, making things for themselves, co-operating with fellow states where it is of mutual benefit.

Strong countries with a sense of self doing what they are good at.

All these things were undone in stages and over time and they can be rebuilt the same way.

Lessen the exposure to people who don’t give a shit about us.

[ChrisJones 7,973]

4 hours ago, Born Hunter said:

Well the UK Gov' have been given the power to use everyone's personal mobile data to track movements. No time limit. Same in other EU countries.

Same here in the US. Some states are trying to track New Yorkers that may have fled the city and could be carrying the virus. Snowden was on JRE a while back and it's almost like he was digital Jesus!

3 hours ago, WILF said:

I don’t think you can make that connection between nationalism and dictatorship as easily as that mate, I dont believe one needs the other.

You're right. It's not exclusive to nationalist governments but they often become dictatorships. Honest question? Are there any examples of a nationalist government that wasn't?

Either way these 'emergency powers' that have now created absolute power have to ringing the alarm bell. Will any of the old Soviet-bloc countries follow suit? Poland perhaps?

[ChrisJones 7,973]

22 minutes ago, jetro said:

Do you think there will be a major recession when this blows over, or will countries have a differant view on manufacturing their own products instead of importing them.

Atb j 

Yes. Recession is already inbound.

Domestic manufacturing will be a tricky one. Consumers are currently only willing to pay the cheapest prices that the market will support. The paradigm shift to support local business will take a minute even if it's possible. The cost increase is always passed on to the consumer. A good way to shift it and bring manufacturing back, domestically, is to lower the costs and entries to business. Example would be abolishing corporation taxes. The paradox here is that expansive state run stimulus will run out of money and with all nations looking at ways to bail out the looming financial dip it looks counter-productive.

19 minutes ago, WILF said:

They will definitely find a way to use it as an excuse to nick your money, it’s up to us wether we let them.

Until the majority of Brits and Americans understand that government issued free sh*t, isn't, we're just allowing the massive tax hike that will ultimately arrive when all of this blows over. Is this a recession or have the US and Britain created a suppression by forcibly closing private business?

[ChrisJones 7,973]

20 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

what I'm getting at is that it will likely recover faster than if it was caused by something more 'normal' for a recession.

I was thinking the same, mate. Many over here are furloughed rather and canned entirely which is sh*t for the individual but a little more reassuring for the medium/long term.

18 minutes ago, WILF said:

Imho (and experience) you create a team by increments (which is why I don’t buy Chris saying dictatorship go’s with nationalism)

While my initial comments were a little disingenuous there's a lot of historical cases of nationalist governments becoming dictatorships. I still can't think of one that didn't but open to correction.

[WILF 44,334]

10 minutes ago, ChrisJones said:

 

You're right. It's not exclusive to nationalist governments but they often become dictatorships. Honest question? Are there any examples of a nationalist government that wasn't?

Either way these 'emergency powers' that have now created absolute power have to ringing the alarm bell. Will any of the old Soviet-bloc countries follow suit? Poland perhaps?

Totalitarian ideologies often become dictatorships and that’s a very different thing.........and it very much depends what you think nationalism looks like really .

Imho It’s starts with an idea of a country......what it should look and feel like, what the “team” ethic should be and what you need to do to make that a reality.

Now there twos ways you can do it, you can do at gun point (which almost always fails) or you can do it over time with propaganda and throw a law in here and there (as we have seen with “multi-cultural Britain)

It involves hating nobody but being educated to value you and yours and your special position in the grand scheme of things.......throw a load of money and media at it and in 50 years you have a nation that thinks very differently to that same nation today.

I just don’t see what’s so radical about the notion of investing in yourself and promoting your own.

[ChrisJones 7,973]

6 minutes ago, WILF said:

Totalitarian ideologies often become dictatorships and that’s a very different thing.........and it very much depends what you think nationalism looks like really .

True but doesn't nationalism itself tend to separate people within the nation itself? The general term, in my understanding, is used to collect people of common shared characteristics and experiences. It begins with a widespread common denominator and then subdivides within itself. The main could be ethnicity. Then it could divide into religious collectives. Even linguistic. Even here on THL we have many English, Scots, Welsh and Irish contributors with their own sense of identity and national pride. I'm sure many of our Irish associates have first hand experience of how that played out within their nation.

13 minutes ago, WILF said:

Imho It’s starts with an idea of a country......what it should look and feel like, what the “team” ethic should be and what you need to do to make that a reality.

Agreed and I really don't have much of an issue with that broad definition but despite you and growing up in different parts of the same country I'm sure we'll have different views on what that idea would be even though we both know we agree on a lot of issues.

15 minutes ago, WILF said:

Now there twos ways you can do it, you can do at gun point (which almost always fails) or you can do it over time with propaganda and throw a law in here and there (as we have seen with “multi-cultural Britain)

Or you can do it with emergency powers with the sub-text of the greater good and national security. Either way though you're correct and I agree. For the record I'm not in support of the way Britain has changed in my life time but my issue has always been with mismanagement from the ruling parties.

17 minutes ago, WILF said:

I just don’t see what’s so radical about the notion of investing in yourself and promoting your own.

Same. It's not radical but as above it always sub-divides into smaller groups with common experiences. I don't agree with exclusion based on these common experiences but I honestly would like to see where it worked previously in history and how this would be a more beneficial system compared to a country run on a basic libertarian principle that curtails a massive centralized government.

[jetro 5,349]

32 minutes ago, WILF said:

Totalitarian ideologies often become dictatorships and that’s a very different thing.........and it very much depends what you think nationalism looks like really .

Imho It’s starts with an idea of a country......what it should look and feel like, what the “team” ethic should be and what you need to do to make that a reality.

Now there twos ways you can do it, you can do at gun point (which almost always fails) or you can do it over time with propaganda and throw a law in here and there (as we have seen with “multi-cultural Britain)

It involves hating nobody but being educated to value you and yours and your special position in the grand scheme of things.......throw a load of money and media at it and in 50 years you have a nation that thinks very differently to that same nation today.

I just don’t see what’s so radical about the notion of investing in yourself and promoting your own.

Out of likes

Atb j 

[WILF 44,334]

Here is a non racist fact:

The white European is in decline, serious decline.....it’s very close or indeed past the point of no return.

Now, if that was any other sub species or eco system the world would be in uproar or at least saying “we should do something about this!” 
 

So given that fact, how to we reverse that decline in the kindest most decent way and at the same time create a sense of value and worth  in that population.....in short have kids and make it a place people want to have kids.

We don’t deserve to die and we shouldn’t die......just like anything else.

[jetro 5,349]

1 minute ago, WILF said:

Here is a non racist fact:

The white European is in decline, serious decline.....it’s very close or indeed past the point of no return.

Now, if that was any other sub species or eco system the world would be in uproar or at least saying “we should do something about this!” 
 

So given that fact, how to we reverse that decline in the kindest most decent way and at the same time create a sense of value and worth  in that population.....in short have kids and make it a place people want to have kids.

We don’t deserve to die and we shouldn’t die......just like anything else.

I didn't know that, scary thought.

Yes have kids, ( us irish have been breeding like rabbits for years LOL), but the system has to change as well. Less globalisation, and trying to make multiculturalism work. Get back to our europan roots and stock. Depend on ourselves, and help ourselves, with out the heavy prices and taxes imposed on us by our and other governments. 

Atb j 

[ChrisJones 7,973]

11 minutes ago, WILF said:

Here is a non racist fact:

The white European is in decline, serious decline.....it’s very close or indeed past the point of no return.

Now, if that was any other sub species or eco system the world would be in uproar or at least saying “we should do something about this!” 
 

So given that fact, how to we reverse that decline in the kindest most decent way and at the same time create a sense of value and worth  in that population.....in short have kids and make it a place people want to have kids.

We don’t deserve to die and we shouldn’t die......just like anything else.

I'd like to see the sources for that, mate, but even if it is correct how would even the broadest nationalist government of country begin to address the issue without hurdling the the points we've both made only a few posts ago?

 

[Accip74 7,112]

1 hour ago, baker boy said:

Would be good to see manufacturing make a come back, I'd happily pay a premium for British goods

Trouble is mate most won’t. We sold out our village shops & high street butchers/bakers so we could get everything under one roof. We willingly fcuked over our own community owned shops for Tesco’s!! So good luck trying to get joe bloggs to pay a premium for British made quality goods when they can order cheaper from China etc.....