ChrisJones 7,973 Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 6 hours ago, gnasher16 said: But a rush to the bottom for us is a rush to the top for under developed nations....welfare for them IS the achievement i just dont think successful nations need to lower their standards to accommodate under achievers the whole thing just go,s against a robust flourishing society.....for me protecting what we have and not giving it away is the key to white cultural preservation. I think we're on opposite sides of the same page here, mate. By gutting welfare I mean a serious overhaul instead of just dumping money into a maelstrom of corruption and inefficiency. I'm not anti safety net I'm anti allowing benefits as a career option. Opening all of this to world is literally why they're bypassing a dozen countries to get here. Close the loophole end the problem on all fronts. Again we're risking completely derailing the thread from a massive conspiracy into a tangent on healthcare budgetting but I'm genuinely interested in how you'd keep the NHS alive and well without seriously modifying how money is spent and access is granted. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,639 Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 10 hours ago, waltjnr said: All funny laughing, and all living in broken Britain, a world all the great men & women who fought in 2 world wars would be sick at! And yet all is OK, no corruption, no smoke and mirrors? Who said all is okay? 50 innocent people were just massacred by a fella who thought it was the only way to save his culture. There are bombs being set off at kids music concerts because some fella reckoned he had to do that to fight the evil West. Western nations are being pulled into conflicts because of the age old game of geopolitics and power struggles. Immigration is seemingly out of control and the ultimate consequences are serious civil unrest. Laughing at the same people calling conspiracy EVERY TIME is a long way from saying everything is okay. 4 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NEWKID 26,211 Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 Every big event seems to be a conspiracy now headed up by some secret hand shake club that no one knows exists but somehow does?? And if you dare to question the conspiracy brigade then your a sheeple FFS.... Personally I just use my eyes.. a bloke shot 50 Muslims cause he's pissed off with mass immigration, plausible enough, captured on film... that'll do me...a group of Islamic terrorists plotted and executed flying planes into the world trade centres, I saw it along with the rest of the world, again plausible enough... Our governments have opened up this new world, we've spent over 20 years getting involved in Middle Easter troubles and killed thousands of innocents along the way, distablised the whole region and then opened the doors to all... talk about double whammy...piss them right off by killing their mothers, wives and kids then say come and live with us, do as you want in our country and have every benefit along the way.... never before has there been uncontrolled immigration on this scale... what could possibly go wrong? 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NEWKID 26,211 Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 I was away this weekend with a group of lads, long time friends of mine.. On the mini bus on Friday one of the lads is watching this massacre on his phone..I ain't watched it not my thing to be honest, take no pleasure in it....so he's saying this blokes walking around shooting unarmed men woman and children, I say he's a coward... f**k me a few of them were up in arms..they deserve it, dirty mussies etc etc etc...one of the lads is Irish descent (like myself)..he's right off, I think it's great blah blah.blah... but when I said so should Englishman.have shot Irish men, Woman.and children in churches and on the streets during the troubles then? Oh no, different thing etc....was it? No one knows how this will end, or how to deal with it... 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,639 Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, NEWKID said: Our governments have opened up this new world, we've spent over 20 years getting involved in Middle Easter troubles and killed thousands of innocents along the way, distablised the whole region and then opened the doors to all... talk about double whammy...piss them right off by killing their mothers, wives and kids then say come and live with us, do as you want in our country and have every benefit along the way.... never before has there been uncontrolled immigration on this scale... what could possibly go wrong? Tbh mate, the Big Power's have been fighting over control of the middle east for at least 70 years, it's what triggered the last 20. As soon as we found out how important the black stuff was control of the deserts that sit on it became of absolute strategic importance. Started really with the D'Arcy company (BP) messing with Persia (Iran) and then overthrowing governments etc. You could probably argue our interest goes back further than that when it was important for trade routes (silk road) and afghan for instance was a significant buffer between the British and Russian empires. So long as humans have a tribal nature, shit like this is inevitable. What's the saying.... don't hate the player, hate the game. Edited March 20, 2019 by Born Hunter 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,639 Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 10 minutes ago, NEWKID said: I was away this weekend with a group of lads, long time friends of mine.. On the mini bus on Friday one of the lads is watching this massacre on his phone..I ain't watched it not my thing to be honest, take no pleasure in it....so he's saying this blokes walking around shooting unarmed men woman and children, I say he's a coward... f**k me a few of them were up in arms..they deserve it, dirty mussies etc etc etc...one of the lads is Irish descent (like myself)..he's right off, I think it's great blah blah.blah... but when I said so should Englishman.have shot Irish men, Woman.and children in churches and on the streets during the troubles then? Oh no, different thing etc....was it? No one knows how this will end, or how to deal with it... The uncomfortable truth is I kind of get it and I'm sure you do. I kind of understand that tribal mentality of 'there's no clean fixes to this, it's us and them, so f**k em', I get it because I exhibit it in small ways. But at the same time I think a) 99% of those that want to watch that shit and have a giggle about it are f***ing cowards in themselves b) even if I was to think that action a necessary evil, I'd hold myself to a higher standard of self respect by not laughing and joking about it, and finally c) when you start agreeing with genocide you have completely given up on morality and are now at exactly the same level as those you claim to be better than, you're just hoping that you are the fittest in the fight because you certainly aren't the most virtuous. Sometimes that may be necessary but it's a hell of a line to cross. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,639 Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 11 minutes ago, Balaur said: I think it's slightly more complex ie. Towers was all Saudis why invade Iraq etc. It's monumentally complex! I agree. On that particular point. IMO when the towers went down it gave the yanks the perfect excuse to finally deal with their Saddam problem, which was entirely about their struggle to control the ME. It was opportunism off the back of "the war on terror". Obviously the internal politics of a country is multifaceted but Saudi, as a state, was on side. The fact that the 911 terrorists were largely Saudi nationals doesn't mean Saudi needed invading anymore than the fact that matey shooting up that mosque makes invading Australia the right/best course of action. I think it's fair to say that the Arabs attitude to insurgency and terrorism has changed significantly over the past 10 years and that is largely down to softer diplomatic tactics. The yanks were well past that with Saddam etc, wasn't even an option. None of what I have just said condones or supports the US's objectives or foreign policy mind (neither does it condemn it, I'm not taking a view on that here). 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tandors 888 Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 To be fair born, you have said you laugh at conspiracies, then immediately you say the war in middle East is about oil and not a war on terror. Is that not something of a conspiracy too? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,639 Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 1 minute ago, tandors said: To be fair born, you have said you laugh at conspiracies, then immediately you say the war in middle East is about oil and not a war on terror. Is that not something of a conspiracy too? I don't laugh at all conspiracies, just to be clear. If the evidence stacks up then I'm all ears. I laugh at the fact that every single thing that happens there's a load of folks that think it's a conspiracy. I laugh at the fact that they call everyone sheeple and then totally lose interest when the evidence they claim would oppose the conspiracy is made available some time later (no one is interested in the mundane). I don't think I quite said that the 'war in the middle east is about oil'. For starters which war specifically? I said the West's interest in the middle east is strategic (this is for all intents historical fact). As a consequence of that we end up in a lot of conflicts, some directly because of strategic control, some because of the consequences of interfering to maintain or fight for that control. Oil is why we have an interest in the place, terrorism and 'uncompliant' local states are a few of the reasons we seem to constantly deploy our militaries there. I don't think any of that is controversial? It's pretty mainstream analysis of the West and the ME. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NEWKID 26,211 Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Born Hunter said: The uncomfortable truth is I kind of get it and I'm sure you do. I kind of understand that tribal mentality of 'there's no clean fixes to this, it's us and them, so f**k em', I get it because I exhibit it in small ways. But at the same time I think a) 99% of those that want to watch that shit and have a giggle about it are f***ing cowards in themselves b) even if I was to think that action a necessary evil, I'd hold myself to a higher standard of self respect by not laughing and joking about it, and finally c) when you start agreeing with genocide you have completely given up on morality and are now at exactly the same level as those you claim to be better than, you're just hoping that you are the fittest in the fight because you certainly aren't the most virtuous. Sometimes that may be necessary but it's a hell of a line to cross. Perfectly put mate.. I try to live by certain morals and a group of pissed lads (very good friends of mine) finding some kind of pleasure in watching that just doesn't sit right with me, so I'll say it... Agree fully that it has become us against them, shit really as 90% of us and them would rather just get on with our lives and make the best if it.... the powers that be force your hand and the reactions aren't always going to be pleasant... Edited March 20, 2019 by NEWKID 3 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NEWKID 26,211 Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Born Hunter said: Tbh mate, the Big Power's have been fighting over control of the middle east for at least 70 years, it's what triggered the last 20. As soon as we found out how important the black stuff was control of the deserts that sit on it became of absolute strategic importance. Started really with the D'Arcy company (BP) messing with Persia (Iran) and then overthrowing governments etc. You could probably argue our interest goes back further than that when it was important for trade routes (silk road) and afghan for instance was a significant buffer between the British and Russian empires. So long as humans have a tribal nature, shit like this is inevitable. What's the saying.... don't hate the player, hate the game. Yeah I realise the history is a long one and we are as people oil and water... but perhaps the last 25 years or so has been the real catalyst of forcing that oil and water together... Chuck greed and religion into the melting pot and eventually you're left where we are now... Millions of people homeless, and looking for refuge, and our small country full to the brim with people that amongst them wish us harm... oil is all that matters though...and the wealthy just get wealthier... that's the rules of life, the strongest or richest survive.. Edited March 20, 2019 by NEWKID 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJones 7,973 Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 3 hours ago, Born Hunter said: So long as humans have a tribal nature, shit like this is inevitable. Despite all of our technological advances we're still running on stone age hardware. So I see your inevitable and raise you an utterly predictable on the basis that it will continue ad nauseum as long as homo sapiens exist. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,639 Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 27 minutes ago, NEWKID said: Yeah I realise the history is a long one and we are as people oil and water... but perhaps the last 25 years or so has been the real catalyst of forcing that oil and water together... Chuck greed and religion into the melting pot and eventually you're left where we are now... I think a real significant change in that time has been the rise of modern liberalism, more specifically the view that nationalism has no value and is often the cause of atrocities, we're all just humans, traditions and culture are pointless etc etc, you know the ideology. There's been significant political appetite for the killing off of nationalism, of all levels. Would you have seen that on the scale we have now 20, 30 40 years ago? If the nationalists of a democracy see an immigrant foreign culture within as a threat then fundamentally they have to overcome their political opponents to deal with that, not the immigrants. 1 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJones 7,973 Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, Born Hunter said: If the nationalists of a democracy see an immigrant foreign culture within as a threat then fundamentally they have to overcome their political opponents to deal with that, not the immigrants. They'd have to offer policy that's acceptable to the mainstream or seize control by the bullet or the bomb. Isn't that where this thread came in? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,639 Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, ChrisJones said: Despite all of our technological advances we're still running on stone age hardware. So I see your inevitable and raise you an utterly predictable on the basis that it will continue ad nauseum as long as homo sapiens exist. On a species level though, such violent tribal competitiveness kinda works well! On the tribal or individual level it's more of a gamble. You might be a Viking conqueror or you might be a Yazidi sex slave. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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