Sub 12Ft/lbs V F.a.c. Inc Calibre Question.

[mark williams 7,550]

Ha! Ha! I can hear the rice paper breaking as I write this thread .

 

Here we go,-

 

After reading an article about F.A.C air describing a pcp rifle of average F.A.C power producing just short of 30 ft/lbs in .22 cal'.

 

The actual figures were .22 cal

 

15.9 g weight AA Fields

900 ft/sec

 

= 28.6 ft/lbs

 

The shooter was stating he has great accuracy out to 50 yds on a calm day but windage kicks in on a breezy day.

 

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Now I use .177 sub 12 ft/lbs for hunting

 

If I use my 40 yr old FWB Sport 124, or T Rex, both are virtually identical on power.( both just tested)

 

The figures were .177 cal

 

7.87 g

 

813 ft/sec

 

= 11.55 ft/lbs

 

I set my sub 12 zero at 38 yds in .177.

I can strike an extra strong mint " every time",( ish ) from 10 - 41 yds " if I aim dead centre of it" - in other words my pellet`s flight is within the area of an inch from 10 - 41 yds. ( 1/2 inch above or below centre of the 1 inch mint)

 

 

So my humble theory is this.

 

On a good still day for air gun hunting,

 

F.A.C. air, average 30 ft/ lbs energy - 50 yds very accurate and a little more "depending how bad your field craft is"

 

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Sub 12 ft/lbs,

 

On a good still day for air gun hunting.

 

A sub 12, ( average 12 ft/lbs energy). 41 yds very accurate and a little more " depending how bad your field craft is"

 

Sub 12 or F.A.C. to get within 35 yds of your quarry is not hard at all, never mind 41 yds +. Is it ?

 

 

 

 

 

F.A.C. V Sub 12 " translated"

 

Is 9 TO 15 yds extra accurate range worth the F.A.C. hastle ?

 

 

 

Just some thoughts lads, hope we get a lively discussion,- no disrespect intended to anyone please.

 

atb Mark.

[David.evans 5,323]

Discussion mark , I'll give you one , your drawing are getting worse you old tart

Fac .22 out to yards , I couldn't do that with sub 12

Atb pecasco

[Rez 4,957]

I would agree with you Marko. Though there is no need for that many en dashes... (that's what hyphens are technically called for those who are gonna wonder)

 

FAC, for me, and in the air gun arena... is purely a confidence thing. It may extend the range somewhat, but I'd personally get one for confidence only. I know that, say a .22 rapid doing 25-28 FPE is gonna hit a lot harder at my own ranges. I don't know if I'd take on longer range shots... I can hardly hit what I'm aiming at anyway.

 

Power is f**k all without control. As I keep telling ya mrs. Shit. My mrs I mean

[si brown 8,486]

never pushed the boundaries of at .22 but a .177 with heavy pellets running at 17/18 is devastating and you can fair stretch your range!

[Rez 4,957]

never pushed the boundaries of at .22 but a .177 with heavy pellets running at 17/18 is devastating and you can fair stretch your range!

Now this is interesting. I've never shot 177 on ticket, let alone at live game. In me mind I would expect it to not transfer any punch... but I suppose a 177 pellet is still pretty big in comparison to a rabbits nut. Consider being shot in the head with a .223, I'm pretty sure I'd hit the deck as soon as it left the gray stuff. Quite liertally.

 

So yeah, I suppose, 177 traveling super fast, hit the spot. Lights out. After all, 17 HMR (even though traveling 5 times the speed) is potent.

[Jonjon79 13,357]

A .25 at 50ftlb is a special beast indeed - especially when you're used to usual sub 12 ranges and are still creeping to within 30/40yrds

..... It hits feckin hard and puts quarry down very quick

 

But, I think if I was going to go to the bother of applying for FAC, I'd go .17 HMR and .22lr and, probably SGC as well.

 

The way I see it, for the money, you may as well extended the range and open as many options as possible.

[si brown 8,486]

 

never pushed the boundaries of at .22 but a .177 with heavy pellets running at 17/18 is devastating and you can fair stretch your range!

Now this is interesting. I've never shot 177 on ticket, let alone at live game. In me mind I would expect it to not transfer any punch... but I suppose a 177 pellet is still pretty big in comparison to a rabbits nut. Consider being shot in the head with a .223, I'm pretty sure I'd hit the deck as soon as it left the gray stuff. Quite liertally.

 

So yeah, I suppose, 177 traveling super fast, hit the spot. Lights out. After all, 17 HMR (even though traveling 5 times the speed) is potent.

 

way more potent than a .22 rf

[Rez 4,957]

 

 

never pushed the boundaries of at .22 but a .177 with heavy pellets running at 17/18 is devastating and you can fair stretch your range!

 

Now this is interesting. I've never shot 177 on ticket, let alone at live game. In me mind I would expect it to not transfer any punch... but I suppose a 177 pellet is still pretty big in comparison to a rabbits nut. Consider being shot in the head with a .223, I'm pretty sure I'd hit the deck as soon as it left the gray stuff. Quite liertally.

So yeah, I suppose, 177 traveling super fast, hit the spot. Lights out. After all, 17 HMR (even though traveling 5 times the speed) is potent.

way more potent than a .22 rf

You mean .22 LR me old bum lover

 

September October not far away now mr brown. Just a little nudge. Last lot of them pellets you sent me were pretty clinical. To say the least.

[walshie 2,804]

Personally I've never seen the point of an FAC air rifle. If you're going to the bother of getting a FAC, then a 22lr can be anything from 40ft/lbs upwards and all you need to do to change the power is to buy different ammo. Unless you specifically require something between 12 and 40 of course.

 

Obviously you can't shoot into trees with a powder burner though.

[Durham John 693]

Personally I've never seen the point of an FAC air rifle. If you're going to the bother of getting a FAC, then a 22lr can be anything from 40ft/lbs upwards and all you need to do to change the power is to buy different ammo. Unless you specifically require something between 12 and 40 of course.

 

Obviously you can't shoot into trees with a powder burner though.

 

Not 100% up on fac air but I would have thought that the controls would be the same

ie clear line of sight with suited back stop,

now I'm not wanting to start a war here but would like any info that you have on this

as I'm sure your more knowledgeable on these matters than me

 

DJ

[philpot 4,942]

Don't think I am going to bother with this other than saying until you have used an FAC in the field on live quarry at longer ranges, you simply cannot appreciate just how good these guns are.

 

Powder burners are not always best suited either as in tree top shooting (safely) but also in areas where there are public footpaths even if not used such as the ones I have across one of my perms and the FAC air is far better suited in this situation. I can turn down the power and shoot in the farm buildings and surrounding areas as well.

 

I just don't know why you keep wittering on about FAC air Mark when you have no experience of them, total waste of time.

 

Phil

[walshie 2,804]

 

Personally I've never seen the point of an FAC air rifle. If you're going to the bother of getting a FAC, then a 22lr can be anything from 40ft/lbs upwards and all you need to do to change the power is to buy different ammo. Unless you specifically require something between 12 and 40 of course.

 

Obviously you can't shoot into trees with a powder burner though.

 

Not 100% up on fac air but I would have thought that the controls would be the same

ie clear line of sight with suited back stop,

now I'm not wanting to start a war here but would like any info that you have on this

as I'm sure your more knowledgeable on these matters than me

 

DJ

 

 

No war here mate. That's what discussion forums are for.

 

There is no specific law to stop you shooting a rimfire into the trees, but it would be a stupid thing to do. There is no law to stop you shooting an airgun into trees either, whether sub 12 or FAC. The "line of sight" and "safe backstop" is purely good sense.

 

Would I shoot a squirrel out of a tree with a rimfire? No. Would I shoot one with an airgun? Yes. Obviously depending on the situation.

 

I'm sure the airgun guys can tell you more about the terminal ballistics of an airgun than I can. A 22 pellet is roughly half the weight of a rimfire bullet. I wouldn't like a bullet or pellet to fall out of the sky and hit anyone, but I'm sure one would be a lot more lethal than the other. (I stand to be corrected on this assumption.)

 

I've never had an FAC airgun and probably never will, but if it suits your needs, then it's the perfect choice. There's no right and wrongs. Just what you need.

 

Not sure I understand the point above suggesting using a gun with less power equates to better fieldcraft though. If fieldcraft was the be-all of shooting, why wouldn't you get your gun de-tuned to say 7ft/lbs so you'd have to have "better" fieldcraft than most using 11ish?

[mark williams 7,550]

Without knowing it Walshie, I did.

 

When I first bought the old FWB Sport 124, she was producing only 9 ft/lbs energy at the muzzle " just".

 

It didn`t stop me getting good results with it as I like to get close when shooting air rifles.

 

Again, Phil, just an honest pointer about an article I`m reading in the June issue of Air Gunner 2016, page 76, " High power performance" - why do you always get disgruntled if I mention anything about higher powered air rifles ? No offence meant or intended.

 

Looks like an interesting, healthy debate to me ?

 

atb Mark.

[stealthy1 3,964]

Discussion mark , I'll give you one , your drawing are getting worse you old tart

Fac .22 out to yards , I couldn't do that with sub 12

Atb pecasco

 

I think this portrait of a rabbit, is better than his last one, even though does have two mouths.

[mark williams 7,550]

Ah Stealthy, the classroom numpty .

 

 

Thank you for your input, just as useful as ever.