Bryan 1,362 Posted June 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 Some good reading on this blog https://thepamplonapost.com/2015/09/09/the-dangerous-summer-editors-article-in-the-telegraph/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DIDO.1 21,077 Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) Iv not really had time to comment. Bryan is doing a half decent job of answering your questions. The bulls are nothing like hunting. The anti hunting argument is quite similar to the anti bullfighting argument argument though. Iv run bulls in spain. Iv been in the ring and trained with young fighting cows out on the ranches. If anyone has genuine questions I'll answer when I have time and if I can. I have no interest in discussing the rights and wrongs. There is alot more to bullfighting than 'stabbing a bull to death for entertainment '. It would be good if we could at least recognise that and have a chance to answer questions from people who have an interest in something that might be new to them. I hope to plan a trip to Spain next year, maybe including pamplona. I'll give some more details when iv given it more thought but if anyone had a genuine interest then they would be more than welcome to come. who knows we may even get you in the ring with some young animals. Edited June 30, 2016 by DIDO.1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DIDO.1 21,077 Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) Looking at the card above Gnasher I'd only be interested in going on the 7th, 10th,11th,12th and 14th. They're the bulls and men I'd like to see. If I was running I'd be looking for the fattest lamest lines of bulls out there. But Pamplona has sold out since Hemmingway wrote, The Sun also Rises. There's something about death and sex and sun and food and drink that's seems to be popular down through the ages. There is always tickets available from the scalpers. Except for the day of rejoneo I'd like to be there every day. A fantastic cartel of promising young toreros, mixed with seasoned professionals....a heady dangerous mix during San fermin. Edited June 30, 2016 by DIDO.1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
keepitcovert 842 Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 I thought bull shiting was the national sport on this forum, oops sorry read the title wrong. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 29,742 Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 Thanks for explaining mate really interesting......sorry one last question.....would a breeder also raise and " train " a bull.... if thats the right word.....and if so what go,s into training a bull and how much of it is instinct ?.......they look awesome animals im probably more interested in the bulls than the matador i always root for the baddies in films Bloodline wise i presume like dogs a breeder would stay within his own strain and outcross when necessary same as dogs i suppose.....what are the physical qualities they look for beyond power and aggression do certain bulls have certain styles and characteristics they pass on ?......ive just been trying to suss bits and pieces on Google but most is in Spanish. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Greengrass 201 Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 So Bryan......if these bulls are purpose bred for their own specific qualities it would suggest there is value in them....is there ?.....and if so who breeds/sells them and who buys them.......is the income generated purely by spectators ? It must be hard for a breeder who has put effort into producing a certain quality of animal see it intentionally put to its death like that.....are there certain breeders whos stock is used within certain areas or would a prized bull travel the country type of thing ? I would nt think it would travel far as it's going to get killed at he end of the day is,nt it unless I,m mistaken, ...slightly different subject...but yes there are breeders who breed certain bulls for rodeo riding in the states and in fact get huge money for them...maybe I,m wrong but I thought once the bull entered the ring the only way it left was hoof s up Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Greengrass 201 Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 Thanks for explaining mate really interesting......sorry one last question.....would a breeder also raise and " train " a bull.... if thats the right word.....and if so what go,s into training a bull and how much of it is instinct ?.......they look awesome animals im probably more interested in the bulls than the matador i always root for the baddies in films Bloodline wise i presume like dogs a breeder would stay within his own strain and outcross when necessary same as dogs i suppose.....what are the physical qualities they look for beyond power and aggression do certain bulls have certain styles and characteristics they pass on ?......ive just been trying to suss bits and pieces on Google but most is in Spanish. Check out the American rodeo sites Gnasher, certain studs getting fortunes because their bull studs throw lunatics that the riders find hard to handle. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Silversnake 1,099 Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 So Bryan......if these bulls are purpose bred for their own specific qualities it would suggest there is value in them....is there ?.....and if so who breeds/sells them and who buys them.......is the income generated purely by spectators ? It must be hard for a breeder who has put effort into producing a certain quality of animal see it intentionally put to its death like that.....are there certain breeders whos stock is used within certain areas or would a prized bull travel the country type of thing ? I am certainly no expert on bullfighting but I would imagine the breeders would love seeing the bulls do what they were bred to do, unless of course the bull didn't perform to expectations. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BGD 6,385 Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 Thanks for explaining mate really interesting......sorry one last question.....would a breeder also raise and " train " a bull.... if thats the right word.....and if so what go,s into training a bull and how much of it is instinct ?.......they look awesome animals im probably more interested in the bulls than the matador i always root for the baddies in films Bloodline wise i presume like dogs a breeder would stay within his own strain and outcross when necessary same as dogs i suppose.....what are the physical qualities they look for beyond power and aggression do certain bulls have certain styles and characteristics they pass on ?......ive just been trying to suss bits and pieces on Google but most is in Spanish. Exactly the same as me as soon as I heard they had different strains of bull with different styles etc I was interested Something about 100 year old strains bred for certain elusive mental and physical traits just pushes the right buttons for me, crossover with the dog world is obvious. Thanks Bryan and DIDO for your posts, definitely sparked a new interest in me 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Greengrass 201 Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 Now they'll reach for a tourniquet if they can and tie off the bleeding and if they can stand at all they'll go back in because every appearance in Madrid will make or break a career. He goes back in and must finish what he's started. IMG-9319102.jpg Is that the 17 year old in the last photo that just got gored standing up ? If it is how ? It looks in the first photo as if it's horn has gone through his leg 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bryan 1,362 Posted June 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 Now they'll reach for a tourniquet if they can and tie off the bleeding and if they can stand at all they'll go back in because every appearance in Madrid will make or break a career. He goes back in and must finish what he's started. IMG-9319102.jpg Is that the 17 year old in the last photo that just got gored standing up ? If it is how ? It looks in the first photo as if it's horn has gone through his leg He's standing up because he's not an over paid football player . There's emergency surgeons on site, they've tied him up with a tourniquet, the black band on his leg and strapped him together as best they could. He couldn't walk when it came time for his second bull, the surgeon reported that he couldn't understand how he stood up at all. But it's Madrid and he's a apprentice looking to the future, he knows what's needed from him. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DogFox123 1,379 Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 (edited) I can recall a prized Hull being pitted against a Bison, it didn't end well for the Bull which surprised me tbh. The Buffalo Vs. the Bull http://www.southdakotamagazine.com/buffalo-vs-bull Edited July 1, 2016 by DogFox123 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DIDO.1 21,077 Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 Fighting bulls are worth huge sums of money. They arnt trained at all. They should never even see a human for 5 years. They will of course see the ranch hands out on the range. If a bull is pardoned it goes back to the ranch and receives the very best veterinary treatment available. It's a great achievement for the breeders and estate staff to see a bull return. A lesser achievement is for the bull to receive applause as it's dragged from the ring. If a full string of 6 bulls all do well on an afternoon then the gandanero (owner, breeder, farmer) can be carried out on shoulders. There are many people who only have an interest in how the bulls behave, the matador is only a means of test an animal to them. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 6,172 Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 A fascinating cultural passion, and I can well understand its attraction. Watching the videos, learning more these past few days with some excellent posts from Bryan and Dido.1 ...thanks guys ... I can see how the bull is revered. I still find it very hard to watch such a magnificent animal brought literally to its knees by repeated attacks before being killed. That is the problem I have with it all, not to mention the blindfolded horse getting gutted. That kind of cruelty to a completely defenceless animal could never be tolerated in any sane society, but then again, I know that, on the few occasions I've been to Spain (not the tourist part) their attitudes are very different to ours. And this has sod all to do with digging down to a rabbit the ferret has bottled up. Anyone who can find parallels is delusional. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Accip74 7,112 Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 Iv not really had time to comment. Bryan is doing a half decent job of answering your questions. The bulls are nothing like hunting. The anti hunting argument is quite similar to the anti bullfighting argument argument though. Iv run bulls in spain. Iv been in the ring and trained with young fighting cows out on the ranches. If anyone has genuine questions I'll answer when I have time and if I can. I have no interest in discussing the rights and wrongs. There is alot more to bullfighting than 'stabbing a bull to death for entertainment '. It would be good if we could at least recognise that and have a chance to answer questions from people who have an interest in something that might be new to them. I hope to plan a trip to Spain next year, maybe including pamplona. I'll give some more details when iv given it more thought but if anyone had a genuine interest then they would be more than welcome to come. who knows we may even get you in the ring with some young animals. Can anyone arrange to go out to certain ranches or did you need a contact? Is there any modern reading on the subject that you'd recommend? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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