Greyhound Bitch

[mackay 3,633]

 

 

Fuji - The greyhounds which are brainless, can't turn, are injury prone etc are ex racers aren't they.

 

Don't you think that one raised from a pup and brought up as a lurcher could be half handy? It would learn to use it's head and learn to turn and thus avoid frequent collisions that ex racers are prone to.

 

Maybe not on the terrain you run. But to lads who favour the faster racier typ

they would still lack wind mate....whats the point when a lurcher will do everything and more

Is that from experience though? I've seen a greyhound in the field. It had more than enough wind and would do everything a half decent lurcher would. I aren't saying it was a world beater. But greyhounds aren't the bags of shit they are sometimes made out to be.

 

 

 

 

 

Fuji - The greyhounds which are brainless, can't turn, are injury prone etc are ex racers aren't they.

 

Don't you think that one raised from a pup and brought up as a lurcher could be half handy? It would learn to use it's head and learn to turn and thus avoid frequent collisions that ex racers are prone to.

 

Maybe not on the terrain you run. But to lads who favour the faster racier typ

they would still lack wind mate....whats the point when a lurcher will do everything and more

Is that from experience though? I've seen a greyhound in the field. It had more than enough wind and would do everything a half decent lurcher would. I aren't saying it was a world beater. But greyhounds aren't the bags of shit they are sometimes made out to be.

 

No one is making greyhounds out to be bags of shit, they obviously contribute to the make up of a lurcher.

Bear in mind when you are breeding your bitch with another lurcher you are actually adding greyhound/sighthound just not in the volume of a purebred and at the expense of other qualities.

You say in your post the greyhound you witnessed would do everything a half decent lurcher would.

Would it do everything a decent one could?.

[Gaz_1989 9,539]

 

 

 

 

Fuji - The greyhounds which are brainless, can't turn, are injury prone etc are ex racers aren't they.

 

Don't you think that one raised from a pup and brought up as a lurcher could be half handy? It would learn to use it's head and learn to turn and thus avoid frequent collisions that ex racers are prone to.

 

Maybe not on the terrain you run. But to lads who favour the faster racier typ

they would still lack wind mate....whats the point when a lurcher will do everything and more

Is that from experience though? I've seen a greyhound in the field. It had more than enough wind and would do everything a half decent lurcher would. I aren't saying it was a world beater. But greyhounds aren't the bags of shit they are sometimes made out to be.

 

 

Fuji - The greyhounds which are brainless, can't turn, are injury prone etc are ex racers aren't they.

 

Don't you think that one raised from a pup and brought up as a lurcher could be half handy? It would learn to use it's head and learn to turn and thus avoid frequent collisions that ex racers are prone to.

 

Maybe not on the terrain you run. But to lads who favour the faster racier typ

they would still lack wind mate....whats the point when a lurcher will do everything and more

Is that from experience though? I've seen a greyhound in the field. It had more than enough wind and would do everything a half decent lurcher would. I aren't saying it was a world beater. But greyhounds aren't the bags of shit they are sometimes made out to be.

No one is making greyhounds out to be bags of shit, they obviously contribute to the make up of a lurcher.

Bear in mind when you are breeding your bitch with another lurcher you are actually adding greyhound/sighthound just not in the volume of a purebred and at the expense of other qualities.

You say in your post the greyhound you witnessed would do everything a half decent lurcher would.

Would it do everything a decent one could?.

That's a bit too open ended a question isn't it? A decent one for me might be shite to you.

 

Some lads don't want speed merchants, they want heavy set and good coat. So a grey wouldn't be for them.

 

The greyhound I have seen work would keep me happy. It was just like working a fast lurcher.

[FUJI 17,624]

I like and respect Greyhounds having trained,raced and owned them but apart from speed imo they offer NOTHING when coming to lurchers..for instance a collie x grey.,the stamina,brains,durability,coat all comes from one dog..be it a collie,bull,wheaton,deerhound,saluki,beddy etc ALL of them have far more to offer when it comes to breeding a lurcher than what a Greyhound has to offer,most of us are indebted to them for at some time our mutts will no doubt have inherited their blood..each to their own but having kept lurchers a wee while now ive learnt that i dont require them these days for where and what i hunt..as has been said a hard worked,proven coursing type has all and much more of whats needed for breeding lurchers in my humble opinion..good luck with your speed demons should you possess one or two ..

[sandymere 8,263]

If you were breeding pups would you breed from a lurcher that lacked,wind,had no jacket,was injury prone,had the turn of a double decker bus,was totally brainless,had never caught anything in the field? I wouldn't and by using a greyhound you are doing all the above..what's the point?

“lacked wind” Stamina is relative to speed which is why you cross a grey with a slower animal. A greyhound has great stamina in relation to the speed it attains.

 

“turned like a double decker bus” again turn is relative to speed.

 

“lacked jacket” No jacket maybe true but one of the biggest problems for running dog is overheating, when one considers this is one of the main causes of things like rhabdomyolysis’ for me a thick jacket brings as many problems as it sorts.

 

“injury prone” again speed brings increased impact forces so injuries can be worse but the very physical ability that allows that speed, as I pointed out above, when transferred to a slower animal, what makes them better.

 

“never caught anything in a field” well they don’t get the chance and it isn’t overly relative when your breeding to get the physical attributes, as already stated, in the offspring. The proving of the those attributes has been done through a good few thousand years of breeding resulting in a successful track career.

 

(Mind I’ve taken a lot of game with track dogs in my time.)

 

 

The point is without the bigger heart, increased blood/blood cell volume etc a lurcher will always be a mongrel but with those attributes, that have been gained by thousands of years of very good breeding, then it becomes a lurcher. Basically we stand on the shoulder of all those generations of breeders and claim their achievement for ourselves.

 

edit for spelling lol.

Edited May 5, 2015 by sandymere

[sandymere 8,263]

 

 

 

If you were breeding pups would you breed from a lurcher that lacked,wind,had no jacket,was injury prone,had the turn of a double decker bus,was totally brainless,had never caught anything in the field? I wouldn't and by using a greyhound you are doing all the above..what's the point?

ask gaz his 5 year old daughter will tell you lmao

Sandymere has explained the benefits above NL. Have a read

 

so that makes it right lol do you beleive everything you read

 

Seems right to me, after all I wrote it so it must be right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[roybo 2,873]

 

How long or how many generations do you feel fresh running dog needs to be added?

lurchers are running dog, u can breed lurchers forever useing related and unrelated animals.

sorry was meant to quote socks ,I agree with you ,

[roybo 2,873]

Sandy I can see what you are saying and where you are coming from,by

adding running dog you will top up on sped for sure .

But is it 'necessary' every few generations or every so often ,as stated.

 

I think the main problem is most men who breed lurchers either ain't in the game of breeding better lurchers for long enough 30 years ain't much in these terms,or what they want changes after a few years ,so there is no bench mark as there is for a greyhound,as in winning something.

Only when it gets competitive in organised lurcher coursing does there seem to be an on going breeding 'plan'

and names are known or remembered and breeding written down for others to make sense of.

What makes a good lurcher is very subjective,and one that's fast enough for one man may not be for another,and sometimes greyhound,can be a quick fix tI a problem that was never there ,they maybe had the wrong dog to start with.

But for most who hunt is adding pure running dog necessary?

[FUJI 17,624]

So you would rather breed from a greyhound Sandy over a regular 5/5 coursing bred dog? You can talk all scientifically mate but you've no common sense lol

 

Edited to add ..either no sense or little experience of regular hard grafting lurchers ? ..not looking for an argument buddy I just find your ethics on this rather daft lol

[Chid 6,794]

Rather use a fast type lurcher than a grey ....

[brookie 1,193]

So you would rather breed from a greyhound Sandy over a regular 5/5 coursing bred dog? You can talk all scientifically mate but you've no common sense lol

 

Edited to add ..either no sense or little experience of regular hard grafting lurchers ..not looking for an argument buddy I just find your ethics on this rather daft lol

well said andy

[brookie 1,193]

 

Some lurcher owners are very ruthless sandy, like the best terriermen/coursing lads, the difference is they are proven in the field, not track.

I don’t know of any lucher owners who would be able to pick the best out of a hundred let alone one in a thousand.

 

As to track proven, well one must consider it in context, a greyhound that is bred from the best of the best that completes a racing career during which it must be able to withstand pressure through it joints that would snap the wrists of a lesser athlete. To my mind this athlete is worth a little closer scrutiny.

 

When cornering the bones/wrist joints sustain pressure of 500psi or 20,000 newtons per square cm, in simple terms the wrist and lower limb structures withstand up to 150kg of downward pressure when galloping around a corner.

A greyhound's heart weight ranges from 1.18 to 1.73% of body weight, or 270 grams to 519 grams for a 30kg greyhound, which is higher than an elite racehorse at 1.0-1.3% of its body weight. Other breeds of dogs have a heart weight equal to 0.77%, about half the size of a greyhound.

A fit greyhound has the highest blood volume of any athlete, relative to its body size, with blood contributing 11.4%, compared to 10.5% for a racehorse, 9.5% for a human sprint athlete and 7.2% for a normal pet dog.

Then there’s the muscles that convert this ability to power and speed, these constitute a greater percentage of the total body mass in greyhounds 57% in comparison to humans 40% and other dogs 44%. Of these in comparison to other breeds greyhounds have a proportionally greater pelvic limb muscle mass. Which allows a higher stride frequency and so faster pace.

Without these adaptions a greyhound running around a track at top speed would break its wrists whilst having a heart attack lol.

So when you add greyhound blood to a lurcher strain you don’t just add speed but you also get the physical attributes that back up that speed. The increased heart size and blood volume doesn’t come from beddies or collies and without it the lurcher cannot perform, a lurcher with a beddies heart will never be any good, it would be like putting a Morris minor engine in a Subaru and wondering why you can’t win a rally!

I think it can be said that if a track dog hasn’t got the physicality, ie heart, blood etc it will not be able to compete at the track. Second if it is to chase, what it knows is an artificial lure, for a number of years pushing itself right to the limit time after time it must also have the mental attitude/chase instinct honed to a great degree.

So greyhounds are proven by the track, the problem is the track isn’t a field and greyhound are bred for the track. Lurcher breeders need to tone down these attributes to get a slower animal, a less perfect running machine. But if one can get the Greyhounds heart size, blood volume etc into the body of a lurcher these diluted greyhounds have the physical potential to be really robust. A dog able to take the pressure that greyhounds joints can withstand, the strain on the heart that a greyhound can stand whilst having increased stamina and agility that comes with the reduction in speed are pretty much the basis of every lurcher. When you breed a collie or beddie greyhound ,from the second generation a fair proportion of pups will have the majority heart and blood volume etc of the non-greyhound ancestor and you can’t see this it can only be found through real work, I’ve already said how many really work their lurcher before breeding?? I’d say I have been out with a lot of lurcher men over the years, more than I’d care to remember and I can count on one hand those who realy worked their dogs. I’ve never bred a lurcher, mainly because I’ve never had one that was either good enough or worked hard enough to prove its worth.

 

a salukis heart is a third bigger than any other dog .its lungs are also a third bigger .its skeleton and joints etc are more akin to a cheetahs . a greyhound is with out doubt the most injury prone dog in existence ,bad feet. bad joints .very weak willed .as for stamina .it doesnt have any .

[NEWSBOY 306]

 

 

Some lurcher owners are very ruthless sandy, like the best terriermen/coursing lads, the difference is they are proven in the field, not track.

 

I don’t know of any lucher owners who would be able to pick the best out of a hundred let alone one in a thousand.

 

As to track proven, well one must consider it in context, a greyhound that is bred from the best of the best that completes a racing career during which it must be able to withstand pressure through it joints that would snap the wrists of a lesser athlete. To my mind this athlete is worth a little closer scrutiny.

 

When cornering the bones/wrist joints sustain pressure of 500psi or 20,000 newtons per square cm, in simple terms the wrist and lower limb structures withstand up to 150kg of downward pressure when galloping around a corner.

A greyhound's heart weight ranges from 1.18 to 1.73% of body weight, or 270 grams to 519 grams for a 30kg greyhound, which is higher than an elite racehorse at 1.0-1.3% of its body weight. Other breeds of dogs have a heart weight equal to 0.77%, about half the size of a greyhound.

A fit greyhound has the highest blood volume of any athlete, relative to its body size, with blood contributing 11.4%, compared to 10.5% for a racehorse, 9.5% for a human sprint athlete and 7.2% for a normal pet dog.

Then there’s the muscles that convert this ability to power and speed, these constitute a greater percentage of the total body mass in greyhounds 57% in comparison to humans 40% and other dogs 44%. Of these in comparison to other breeds greyhounds have a proportionally greater pelvic limb muscle mass. Which allows a higher stride frequency and so faster pace.

Without these adaptions a greyhound running around a track at top speed would break its wrists whilst having a heart attack lol.

So when you add greyhound blood to a lurcher strain you don’t just add speed but you also get the physical attributes that back up that speed. The increased heart size and blood volume doesn’t come from beddies or collies and without it the lurcher cannot perform, a lurcher with a beddies heart will never be any good, it would be like putting a Morris minor engine in a Subaru and wondering why you can’t win a rally!

I think it can be said that if a track dog hasn’t got the physicality, ie heart, blood etc it will not be able to compete at the track. Second if it is to chase, what it knows is an artificial lure, for a number of years pushing itself right to the limit time after time it must also have the mental attitude/chase instinct honed to a great degree.

So greyhounds are proven by the track, the problem is the track isn’t a field and greyhound are bred for the track. Lurcher breeders need to tone down these attributes to get a slower animal, a less perfect running machine. But if one can get the Greyhounds heart size, blood volume etc into the body of a lurcher these diluted greyhounds have the physical potential to be really robust. A dog able to take the pressure that greyhounds joints can withstand, the strain on the heart that a greyhound can stand whilst having increased stamina and agility that comes with the reduction in speed are pretty much the basis of every lurcher. When you breed a collie or beddie greyhound ,from the second generation a fair proportion of pups will have the majority heart and blood volume etc of the non-greyhound ancestor and you can’t see this it can only be found through real work, I’ve already said how many really work their lurcher before breeding?? I’d say I have been out with a lot of lurcher men over the years, more than I’d care to remember and I can count on one hand those who realy worked their dogs. I’ve never bred a lurcher, mainly because I’ve never had one that was either good enough or worked hard enough to prove its worth.

a salukis heart is a third bigger than any other dog .its lungs are also a third bigger .its skeleton and joints etc are more akin to a cheetahs . a greyhound is with out doubt the most injury prone dog in existence ,bad feet. bad joints .very weak willed .as for stamina .it doesnt have any .

bit harsh that i think

[DEERMAN 1,020]

So you would rather breed from a greyhound Sandy over a regular 5/5 coursing bred dog? You can talk all scientifically mate but you've no common sense lol

 

Edited to add ..either no sense or little experience of regular hard grafting lurchers ..not looking for an argument buddy I just find your ethics on this rather daft lol

spot on

[Phil Lloyd 10,739]

I've heard the same, well worn statement, hundreds of times,...'Without the Greyhound influence,..we would have no lurchers'.....and yes, for many years,..this was possibly the case...

 

However,..nowadays, we do have a wider choice....

Edited May 5, 2015 by Phil Lloyd

[neems 2,406]

i've never bred a dog let alone a lurcher or greyhound,but isn't putting greyhound back in the line over and over again just putting the same faults back into the line every time?

 

whereas if you bred best to best you could lock in the traits you want over time.