If God Made Everything, Who Made Him ?

[Quarter bull 240]

The independent

 

Earlier this year, Mr Fry, who has bipolar disorder, revealed he had tried to take his own life in 2012 and admitted he still struggled with loneliness and unhappiness, though his mental health had improved.

 

I wonder why he's lonely an unhappy an tryed to kill himself...he seems to have all answers above in video...clearly he doesn't....

[shepp 2,285]

The independent

Earlier this year, Mr Fry, who has bipolar disorder, revealed he had tried to take his own life in 2012 and admitted he still struggled with loneliness and unhappiness, though his mental health had improved.

I wonder why he's lonely an unhappy an tryed to kill himself...he seems to have all answers above in video...clearly he doesn't....

Not lonely now, he got married.

[Quarter bull 240]

Lol not married civil partnership

[jacknife 2,005]

The independent

 

Earlier this year, Mr Fry, who has bipolar disorder, revealed he had tried to take his own life in 2012 and admitted he still struggled with loneliness and unhappiness, though his mental health had improved.

 

I wonder why he's lonely an unhappy an tryed to kill himself...he seems to have all answers above in video...clearly he doesn't....

 

Many gifted people suffer with bipolar Van Gogh/Elgar/Spike Milligan

 

Feeling lonely and unhappy and trying to kill yourself is all part of the disorder

 

Maybe your god likes to punnish creative people so he made this condition

[Quarter bull 240]

Jack you sound like a cry baby get over yourself an get back to your Muslim bashing, your statements are silly imo

[jacknife 2,005]

Jack you sound like a cry baby get over yourself an get back to your Muslim bashing, your statements are silly imo

You asked why Fry was un happy and tried to kill himself isn't it obvious

[Quarter bull 240]

Why is it obvious, in fact I was being sarcastic, he was full of it in the video .....if you get rid of God your life will be far better....that's what he said ....didn't work for him.....

[walshie 2,804]

Lol not married civil partnership

 

No they're married.

[Quarter bull 240]

make invitations for a gay couple's civil partnership ceremony, ... who will become civil partnered to his boyfriend of eight months.... Stephen Fry

 

Telegraph

Edited March 28, 2015 by Quarter bull

[ChrisJones 7,973]

Hi Chris

 

Good to know you're able to quote the Bible. A lot of people will just say stuff and not bother to referrence the Bible, so I'm genuinely impressed.

 

With the ideas that you're talking about, it's well thought out, and genuinely a pretty decent argument. The only issue with it is it's working on the premise that this earth is the be all and end it. Our existence on this planet is less than a blink of an eye in eternity.

 

Agreed with the premise, but the biblical argument is exactly the opposite, wouldn't you agree? I truly believe that our existence on this earth is the be all and end all of it. At least in the traditional sense. We're born, we live, we die. We return to the universe where our energy is transfered to the earth. My rotting carcass feeds worms, plants, etc. I work on the premise that this is it because I genuinely have no reason, evidence, to assume otherwise.

 

I'm sure some believers think that is a pessimistic view, an opinion which they're entitled to, but I believe that this life is the one we should be living and enjoying. I'm not going to waste a moment, of it, worrying about what might happen next. It's genuinely a very comforting view, for me at least.

 

Our existence is a blink of an eye, in eternity. But humans have been here longer than religion. We'll outlive it. Individually maybe not but as our knowledge grows more of us no longer have a need for faith.

 

But let's look at Deuteronomy and Leviticus. The Old Testament is there as a preface to Jesus. The Jews were referred to as being God's Chosen people. Meaning they were chosen to bring forth Jesus. Prior to Jesus, the law on earth was the law of the land. If God knows everything, then God would have known that those being killed would never turn to the truth and follow him to paradise, so the price for sin was death, physical and spiritual. But then came Jesus. That's when the rules changed from "An eye for an eye" over to "Turn the other cheek". Why not fight back? Because the rules had changed, there was a substitute option above the law of the land. After Jesus, there was forgiveness for sin. So forgiveness came first and over came death for sin. By death, it does not mean a physical earthly death, it is talking about a spiritual death, namely a spiritual-separation-from-God death. That is the eternal death.

 

If the old testament went from an eye to an eye why does the new testament contain such rampant anti-semitism? The gospels are written by anonymous authors. Luke, and Matthew are argued not even to be eye witnesses to Jesus. There are several passages in Acts, Mark, Matthew, Titus and Revelations that are blatantly anti-semitic and certainly don't allude to turn the other cheek.

 

Also I don't accept sin. Sin is a convienient invention. The concept of sin, to me, was invented to control people through guilt and shame.

 

As for the 'Corruption of perfection' that I was referencing and you noted "Why not make it incorruptable", if everything was left as perfect and we were unable to 'damage it' then we would not have free will would we? If we were 'trapped' in paradise, then there is little to no free will. If you are unable to do wrong, then the decision between right and wrong has been taken away....no free will.

 

From my understanding of the Garden of Eden it appears more flawed design than the existence of free will. Again why would one create a creature that he knows would go on to destroy? We may have free will but he knows all... Surely he knew what was coming?

 

Again is he unable to intervene? Or unwilling?

 

Who could just sit back, and watch, knowing that he could fix it all at the mere thought of it.

 

The 'Tree of Knowledge'...'The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil' (it's full name) is there for a few reasons. One, it speaks of the only "Do not..." condition that God provided. Originally there was only 1 sin "Do not eat the fruit of that tree". We always overlook the other tree in the centre of the Garden of Eden, the Tree of Eternal Life. If we ate from that one, which we were allowed to, then we would be immortal (the reason man was kicked out of the garden was to stop them eating from that tree). But instead they ate from the one that we were told not to eat from :-( They broke the only 'Do not' commandment God initially gave to mankind. This is the ultimate 'free will' realiser/revealer. This is when we realised that there was morality, shame, pain, suffering, and the option purposefully not to do what God told us. But eating this fruit was also the condemning action. It is our fall from grace. Eating the fruit did no harm, as the Bible said, the fruit was good to eat. However, the action of disobeying God was the condemning element.

 

His first attempt at species creation was one that immediately disobeyed him. It asks more questions than creates answers, no?

 

Is it a metaphor or euphemism...maybe, I don't know. I have no doubt that the texts have been changed over time. But the basic laws, rules, and the forgiveness and love are what really matter. However, a God of forgiveness and love to his people, would understand that we tried to follow him as best as we could (finger's crossed he'd see that).

 

 

I can accept that. I can only add that I don't believe we need Jesus to live well and moral. I believe that the two aren't linked in any shape or form.

 

My grievance isn't with god. It's with man's interpretation of said god.

 

I can accept that maybe there is a divine creator.

 

I cannot accept that numerous male anonymous authors wrote down his word, verbatim, over hundreds of years without a major degree of corruption and personal influence. What may have begun as the word of lord ended as the word of man, with all the consequences of absolute power, transfered to evolved monkeys.

 

[dytkos 17,536]

Heavy, man LOL

 

Cheers, D.

[Quarter bull 240]

Hello Chris how are you keeping mate?

 

I like the way you word things, as you say about the gospels mate I find it hard to believe that it wasn't the said authors, its all propaganda against God an Jesus, an the bible..there's no foundation to any of these claims, unless anyone has any proper evidence instead of propaganda constructed by big players the media an a few I won't mention,,,,

 

If you read the gospels there very passionate, an each of them were set free from there's bondages, they all had there faults but they were called by Jesus for a reason to show no matter what forgiveness is always there.

 

You won't take this point seriously, because you don't recognise sin..for whatever reason...can I ask you if you don't believe in sin do you believe in morals?

 

If you do beleive in morals can I ask you what your standard is an what do you base this on....

 

If you reply you yourself deceide what is morally right an wrong.. I would say IMO that is flawed because that means, each individual decides in there own mind, an look were that has left us in the past...but you might not see it that way....

 

You know I'm going to defend Gods words, an many might not like it but it doesn't bother, so whenever my God an yours..is being lied about I will defend...

 

I fail to see the antisemitic claims that you've made, could you point that out please, an each person has there own opinion of God but I would say have a look at yourself, an how much responsibility as as race have we took for our selfish individual choices, an look at were it has got us, do you expect God to step in when people choose to blasphemy him in each an every way an don't believe his existence, he has an still does intervene for people who believe in him, an sometimes people who don't,, but you can't expect God to run after the scoffers in the darkness, when they choose not to believe,, but that's there choice...

[Truther 1,579]

"I can accept that. I can only add that I don't believe we need Jesus to live well and moral. I believe that the two aren't linked in any shape or form.

My grievance isn't with god. It's with man's interpretation of said god.

I can accept that maybe there is a divine creator.

I cannot accept that numerous male anonymous authors wrote down his word, verbatim, over hundreds of years without a major degree of corruption and personal influence. What may have begun as the word of lord ended as the word of man, with all the consequences of absolute power, transfered to evolved monkeys."

That about sums it up for me Chris, except the "what may have begun as the word of the lord" i don't accept any of it is handed down from a creator, all man made, maybe drug fuelled in the first instance?

[ChrisJones 7,973]

Hello Chris how are you keeping mate?

 

Good thanks, QB. Just starting my weekend! Peace to you and yours, mate!

 

I like the way you word things, as you say about the gospels mate I find it hard to believe that it wasn't the said authors, its all propaganda against God an Jesus, an the bible..there's no foundation to any of these claims, unless anyone has any proper evidence instead of propaganda constructed by big players the media an a few I won't mention,,,,

 

That's fair enough. They were written under pseudonyms. In our case it would be Chris Jones, or Quarter Bull.

 

Anonymous is exactly that. No one can actually pinpoint who wrote them.

 

Luke, for example, was believed to be Luke the evangelist. Companion of Paul. However, biblical scholars are now challenging that theory. The gospel is believed to have been written around -110CE depending on which scholar you care to reference. Also it was still being substantially revised into the 2nd century.

 

Have a look at the Marcan priority. A theory put forward that Luke and Matthew drew heavily from Mark's gospel, for their own writing. Some would argue for plaigerism. I'd tend to agree.

 

 

You won't take this point seriously, because you don't recognise sin..for whatever reason...can I ask you if you don't believe in sin do you believe in morals?

 

Correct I don't recognize sin, in the biblical tradition. I recognize it's power and influence over people, but I cannot fathom why.

 

Morality, yes. I do believe in morality.

 

If you do beleive in morals can I ask you what your standard is an what do you base this on....

 

Kindness.

 

If you reply you yourself deceide what is morally right an wrong.. I would say IMO that is flawed because that means, each individual decides in there own mind, an look were that has left us in the past...but you might not see it that way....

 

Correct. Does that not imply free will? Would a fundamental philosphy of kindness harm, or hinder?

 

You know I'm going to defend Gods words, an many might not like it but it doesn't bother, so whenever my God an yours..is being lied about I will defend...

 

Absolutely. Please understand I don't post here to convert you. Or any man/woman of faith. I post here my thoughts on religion. This thread is about God's origins and has swayed heavily into Christianity. I'm equally questioning of Judaism, Islam, and Buddhism. Basically anything that claims absolute knowledge, based on flimsy, if any, evidence.

 

Posting on these threads allows me to ask questions. It stimulates conversation and it keeps me sharp in the sense that I have to type carefully and concisely. I have to offer my POV in a way that's easy to read and digest. I have to research what I post and am then able to research any rebuttal put forward. This way I am continually learning, and being exposed to views and information that wouldn't present itself to me in normal movement. It makes me a better critical thinker, and better at writing in a way that would be palatable.

 

You are utterly entitled to your opinions and I would hope you continue to defend them with the vigour you have shown.

 

I fail to see the antisemitic claims that you've made, could you point that out please, an each person has there own opinion of God but I would say have a look at yourself, an how much responsibility as as race have we took for our selfish individual choices, an look at were it has got us, do you expect God to step in when people choose to blasphemy him in each an every way an don't believe his existence, he has an still does intervene for people who believe in him, an sometimes people who don't,, but you can't expect God to run after the scoffers in the darkness, when they choose not to believe,, but that's there choice...

 

Do I expect god to step in when someone blasphemes? No. Debates his existence? No.

 

Wages war in his name? Yes. When his followers rape children, and additional followers right up to his alleged voice on earth, suppress and cover up the information? Yes! Genocide? Yes!

 

Why won't he?!

 

Does bone cancer's free will trump the life of a child? It angers me that he would choose to do nothing. Unless he cannot do anything. Either of which begs, what is the point of debating his divinity?!

 

I cannot submit to an entity that refuses to make itself known.

 

Anti semitism in the new testament.

 

Acts 13: 45-51

Acts 7: 51-53

Titus 1:10-14

Thessalonians 2:14-16

Revelation 2:9-10

Revelations 3:9

 

It's been used, since it was canonized, to persecute Jews. Hitler's hatred for them was inspired by the scriptures.

 

 

[ChrisJones 7,973]

That about sums it up for me Chris, except the "what may have begun as the word of the lord" i don't accept any of it is handed down from a creator, all man made, maybe drug fuelled in the first instance?

 

Fair enough. I think there is a remote possibility.

 

But it's not enough of a possibility for me to visit a priest, over a doctor.