Question ?

[marshman 7,756]

@bobby blackheart. Well if your asking me mate.. Like I said taking for granted that the useless bitch was out of workers . Then it would depend on how useless she was lol. If it didn't work at all and refused to enter then no , but say the bitch had trouble finding or couldn't bottle it up or whatever then the answer would still be no lol . Only joking to be truthful I don't know , no garrantees with anything I suppose !

[neil cooney 10,415]

Nothing in the breeding of working terriers should ever be "theoretical". It should always be down to hard work.

This theory that the right genes are in place is one of the reasons that there's so much bad terriers around.

It's also another excuse used by the peddlers to breed from young or useless dogs and bitches.

If one bitch is a good worker it's because she has heart. If the other one is useless as a worker it's because she hasn't got heart (but not always) and who in their right minds would breed from a terrier with no heart, no matter how good daddy and mammy are or were.

 

The best of breeding is a very important factor in the making of a good, honest working terrier, but it's not the only factor.

[Cleanspade 3,322]

the wors of the two could easily be the one to throw the better workers. in fact the better of the two could throw nothing. so if you have a tight gene pool and you cull the poorer bitch your fecked

[marshman 7,756]

@neil cooney. When I say " theoretical " I mean it isn't real and isn't happening to me and only a question, I understand its down to hard work but what I meant is its a "hypothetical" question Er i think thats the right wording not sure though lol .

[Cleanspade 3,322]

Nothing in the breeding of working terriers should ever be "theoretical". It should always be down to hard work.

This theory that the right genes are in place is one of the reasons that there's so much bad terriers around.

It's also another excuse used by the peddlers to breed from young or useless dogs and bitches.

If one bitch is a good worker it's because she has heart. If the other one is useless as a worker it's because she hasn't got heart (but not always) and who in their right minds would breed from a terrier with no heart, no matter how good daddy and mammy are or were.

 

The best of breeding is a very important factor in the making of a good, honest working terrier, but it's not the only factor.

the problem with that is he one that has heart inherited it. but may not be able to throw it. the one without heart was bred the same and although it isnt showing it it could be he one that throws it.

[jessdale 416]

Always remember the late, great, bing Crosby had a brother who couldn't sing a note !!. The best to the best and hope for the best. But forget the rest.

Edited May 13, 2013 by jessdale

[neil cooney 10,415]

When it comes to breeding I think Don Mayfield said it best.

If you get a gallon of ice cream and put a spoonfull of dogshit in it and mixed it around.

What have you now got ?

It certainly ain't ice cream.

 

There's no room in a line of working dogs for taking a chance on a non-worker.

[jonesy 111]

Got to agree with Neil Cooney,I've never bred off shite bitches with no heart as I try not to keep bitches however I have had pups off the nearly ones with good blood and didnt work out,and yes I have had shite out of good bitches,but the only way we can get rid of the crap stuff in our sport is to only breed from the best.

[Cleanspade 3,322]

When it comes to breeding I think Don Mayfield said it best.

If you get a gallon of ice cream and put a spoonfull of dogshit in it and mixed it around.

What have you now got ?

It certainly ain't ice cream.

 

There's no room in a line of working dogs for taking a chance on a non-worker.

 

that would depend on he size of the spoon, and i would agree with the above. if it was about putting shit into a line. like poodle into beddy. but we are talking good breeding. whats to say potentially the crap bitch just didnt respond as well to the system used to enter her as well as the other, and if entered differently would have made better. or the upbringing/ enviroment suited one better than the other. . if your line had suffered due to a bad outcross or something and you found a terrier going back to stuff you had when your line was better suited. say an untried pet. would you gamble on it.

[neil cooney 10,415]

No, and I'm a gambling man.

As a pup is growing up on my yard I spend a lot of time every day with it and always look at it with optimism and hope it will do it's parents proud.

I couldn't spend 14 or 16 months looking at a pup and say to myself "I know your mother was useless, but hopefully you'll turn out alright."

And even if the pup did make the grade the fact that a useless terrier was bred from it will crop up at some stage, even after a few generations.

This is one of the reasons I believe that to breed from a good, honest worker is not enough.

IMO the potential brood or stud has to have come from a good litter, ie. it's siblings were also good workers.

If , say, in a litter of six, five are useless but one of them makes a top class , brilliant working terrier.

Is that terrier a result of good breeding or a freak, a fluke ?

I bet plenty of lads would breed from such a terrier.

Edited May 14, 2013 by neil cooney

[spindolero 1,109]

When it comes to breeding I think Don Mayfield said it best.

If you get a gallon of ice cream and put a spoonfull of dogshit in it and mixed it around.

What have you now got ?

It certainly ain't ice cream.

 

There's no room in a line of working dogs for taking a chance on a non-worker.

 

so no bull boys have ever bred off a cold bitch?

[bobby blackheart 1,209]

No, and I'm a gambling man.

As a pup is growing up on my yard I spend a lot of time every day with it and always look at it with optimism and hope it will do it's parents proud.

I couldn't spend 14 or 16 months looking at a pup and say to myself "I know your mother was useless, but hopefully you'll turn out alright."

And even if the pup did make the grade the fact that a useless terrier was bred from it will crop up at some stage, even after a few generations.

This is one of the reasons I believe that to breed from a good, honest worker is not enough.

IMO the potential brood or stud has to have come from a good litter, ie. it's siblings were also good workers.

If , say, in a litter of six, five are useless but one of them makes a top class , brilliant working terrier.

Is that terrier a result of good breeding or a freak, a fluke ?

I bet plenty of lads would breed from such a terrier.

ive seen dogs of the very best breeding fail with someone-they have been passed on and become excellent workers/stayers,that men have started their own good working lines with-any man can spoil a good dog imho-its all very well saying they shit dont breed from them-but how MANY actually PRACTICE what they PREACH?Not many i know-not even the Greats-lol-men outthere that will sell you a dream-if we honest we have all bought one at one time or another?people will swear blind they didnt breed this to that but 90% talk shit and tell you what you want to hear-Even tell you a bare faced lie to your face-lol-If im honest it has happened to me i kept 2 sisters same litter-they worked to a good standard but would fight like f**k with other dogs/bitches-bred a litter from them they all the same-fighters not what i want-so they got spayed and had to find a bitch from a line that suited me-as hard as it was-wasted 6/7 yrs of my time-some times when you put certain blood with certain blood it dont gel no matter how good the lines-i have used the same stud dog for the last 8/9 yrs and when used on bitches outside of what i kept-they excelled wtf??-my original bitch is still here-would still drop to ground and give her all like she was in her prime if she got chance-why did she never throw any good bitches?the dogs were all machines and never had any complaints?but could never breed a bitch that was half as good as the dam?there is no proven formula in my opinion-just a lot of luck with what you get-some work,some dont-the day some one finds the answer and shares it with THL-we will all have the best ATB

[Rory4 267]

Agree with Neil on this one, I would only want a pup out of parents doing what I want the pups to do. Bringing on a pup putting all the time into but doubting it will make the grade before its started would be soul destroying

[BIG G wheton machine 1,594]

but what about using a bitch that was given to a pet home as a pup and wasn't even tried at work so nobody knows how she will work would any take a chance on getting blood back from her if she was the only surviving bitch from a good line?

[bobby blackheart 1,209]

been down that road-showed the bitch a hole at gone 6 and she did the bizz-wouldnt stand for any dog now i have a bitch that has what i want-lined her and she miscarried the pups it aint as easy as you boys make out-at the moment im short on dogs-got 1 in my kennel that i can use-have my old black dog but want to keep him safe until i got a chance to line him to my chocolate bitch again-1 other dog i bred with a different dam has had only 1 season so he is my very last resort if he keeps at it that is-others from the litter are not what im after as they dont suit what i will ask of them-the blood that is about from my old black dog has been mixed with different stuff so even more of a minefield to cross im getting desperate here-lol-fingers crossed the bitch carries them next time.atb