Working Bedlingtons 2005

[Coursing mad 24 874]

The dog i was looking at earlier was huntercliff briar nice dark sort

[Coursing mad 24 874]

FullSizeRender.jpg young bitch done well a show for once some one actualy judged a beddy fairly atb

[Coursing mad 24 874]

This might start a debate lol in my opinion some people who do out cross as such beddy x fell then put back to a pure type beddy to then end up with 3/4 beddy 1/4 fell have produced some proper older more true type beddies which work better and have better coats etc . But have seen a few which put outcrossed dogs to outcrossed bitches and end up with beddy types as such but in my opinion i think 2nd generation outcrossed are getting to far away from the proper beddy . Do you think to much outcrossing is affecting the breed ?? Atb

[morton 5,367]

This might start a debate lol in my opinion some people who do out cross as such beddy x fell then put back to a pure type beddy to then end up with 3/4 beddy 1/4 fell have produced some proper older more true type beddies which work better and have better coats etc . But have seen a few which put outcrossed dogs to outcrossed bitches and end up with beddy types as such but in my opinion i think 2nd generation outcrossed are getting to far away from the proper beddy . Do you think to much outcrossing is affecting the breed ?? Atb

without outcrossing there would be little hope or chance of producing mutts that grafted like a terrier should and had the conformation of the original type Bedlington.The KC brigade bred the Bedlington to be so far removed from the original to make it far,far,far removed from anything a Bedlington ever resembled.All Bedlington lines owe much to outcrossing,the pedigrees may disguise that fact if honesty ever comes into the equation.If the aim is to produce a Beddy that grafts its imperative that form plays an important role,otherwise you just have another X bred terrier,any outcross programme must have forward planning and the 2nd and 3rd generations should be achievable before the 1st is undertaken.The aim should be to produce a grafting terrier that conforms to a Bedlington,otherwise whats the point.

[Coursing mad 24 874]

Agreed aslong as you say as its managed correctly . So the aim of all proper beddies owners workers should be to keep the size down strengthen them up as such improve the bite , jaw and eventualy regulatly produce a good petcentage that are true to the older thpe beddies . What breed would you say is best of blends better with a beddy seen a few fell type x beddy that resembles old type . But also i think it was newcombe who used lakeland and border blood ??

[Coursing mad 24 874]

Ive heard a few bits bout francis fuller dogs kc types do they work ?

[russell tuck 127]

Iv seen plenty on reg dogs that would be more than suited to a working life style whether they would want it is another thing iv seen some kc stuff work out of what iv seen 3 wouldnt kill rats one couldnt kill a big rat and 3 that would did/would happly work fox .

in regaurds to outcrossing myself i would rather double up on the fell or what ever outcross as been used rather than just using a bedlington because its a bedlington show me one that works and id consider it show me one work from a line of proven worker and id happly use it .

One thing iv notice is the bedlington type terrier is starting to become more recignised and respected as a working terrier and iv spoke to quit afew lads that would happly take or run one on i was at a call out last week and i had a young bitch with me when a lad told me he'd never own one and before i had chance to reply the huntsman was the first to tell him not to knock them and the rest of the lads that seen mine work started telling him about how mine work and that they hadnt see any work other than mine and im a firm believer theres only one way to promote any working breed and that in the feild infront of people .

[morton 5,367]

Agreed aslong as you say as its managed correctly . So the aim of all proper beddies owners workers should be to keep the size down strengthen them up as such improve the bite , jaw and eventualy regulatly produce a good petcentage that are true to the older thpe beddies . What breed would you say is best of blends better with a beddy seen a few fell type x beddy that resembles old type . But also i think it was newcombe who used lakeland and border blood ??

Lakeys/Fells, whatever we wish to call them,have common ancestory with the Bedlington,i find they better suit the development of the modern Beddy better than the Border.

[timmy k 571]

Agree with you their Morton, I've seen many fell types and own one at present that have a beddie look to them, but no true beddies been in the line that anyone knows of.

[northern lad 2,292]

At what point does x bred stop/start becoming a Bedlington This topic fascinates me for some reason Is a 3/4 collie /grey a working Greyhound?or a lurcher? If I put a 1st cross patt/border over a border,will I have a Working Border....??? Ive no problem with people breeding what they like and Im sure they must be doing the job,but I wouldn't kid myself and call them Bedlingtons....and the argument of having fell/lakie in their ancestry so its ok to introduce more don't wash with me either,they are hybrids ,if they breed true give them a name "Linty Terrier" lolol sorry couldn't resist Im not anti Bedlington by the way,did a lot with one 30+years ago,fantastic dog (till it was stolen ) I just don't think this will "save" the breed as a working dog,bastardising it to enable it to do its job...

[russell tuck 127]

Northern lad i see what your saying and to me and afew lads i know when we say bedlington infact we mean type a dog that resembles a old type bedlington a dog that can and will get and carrys outcross blood of one type or another (fell,lakeland,border or x bred)

The bedlington originely was a type of dog bred in a posific area for a perpose by people that didnt really care about looks aslong as the could work and get the job done in very harsh country/terrain at the end of the day farmers are no different today if they got a lamb killer in then the rocks/ground they dont care what the dog looks like aslong as it fixes the problem.

As for when does a outcross become a bedlington il explain what i believe the easiest way i can explain is for a dog to be a breed it make up must be 100% of its own kind once outcrossed only type can be achieved as the blood group as been intoxicated by the outcross . The way i look at it is two men get booked for drink driving one fella has had 2 pints the other 10 pints they both become/classed as criminals for being intoxicated is one more of a criminal than the other .

ATB RT

[morton 5,367]

At what point does x bred stop/start becoming a Bedlington This topic fascinates me for some reason Is a 3/4 collie /grey a working Greyhound?or a lurcher? If I put a 1st cross patt/border over a border,will I have a Working Border....??? Ive no problem with people breeding what they like and Im sure they must be doing the job,but I wouldn't kid myself and call them Bedlingtons....and the argument of having fell/lakie in their ancestry so its ok to introduce more don't wash with me either,they are hybrids ,if they breed true give them a name "Linty Terrier" lolol sorry couldn't resist Im not anti Bedlington by the way,did a lot with one 30+years ago,fantastic dog (till it was stolen ) I just don't think this will "save" the breed as a working dog,bastardising it to enable it to do its job...

All dogs are mongrels,fact,all breed types,be that Great Dane,Cocker Spaniel,Jack Russel etc.etc. are line bred to produce a specific type of canine.The KC in its infinite wisdom set breed standards that are at odds with a Working Standard.The hybrid Bedlingtons about now are much closer to the ORIGINAL in character and TYPE than the vast majority of the so called KC pure breds,the majority of which have hidden lineage that the breeders wish to disguise.Thus in my mind anything that looks and works like the early Bedlingtons is better befitting the name than the vast majority of their modern cousins.Its naive to get bogged down with pedigrees and purity,there never was a pure bred jukel,just some that are bred to fit a certain breed standard.The majority of breeds are less than a couple of centuries old,in that time the odd pinch of this and that as been sprinkled into the lineage to carry the line,thus modern Bedlingtons sprinkled with some of their ancestory are possibly more pure than some others?.Its about breeding a type of terrier that befits its name and breeding as a working terrier,if it looks and grafts like a Bedlington and breeds to type then its a Bedlington,if it looks and grafts like a Bedlington and does not breed to type,then its a work in progress,yet is more important to the survival of the Bedlington than any KC bred rubbish masquerading under false pretence.

[northern lad 2,292]

 

At what point does x bred stop/start becoming a Bedlington This topic fascinates me for some reason Is a 3/4 collie /grey a working Greyhound?or a lurcher? If I put a 1st cross patt/border over a border,will I have a Working Border....??? Ive no problem with people breeding what they like and Im sure they must be doing the job,but I wouldn't kid myself and call them Bedlingtons....and the argument of having fell/lakie in their ancestry so its ok to introduce more don't wash with me either,they are hybrids ,if they breed true give them a name "Linty Terrier" lolol sorry couldn't resist Im not anti Bedlington by the way,did a lot with one 30+years ago,fantastic dog (till it was stolen ) I just don't think this will "save" the breed as a working dog,bastardising it to enable it to do its job...

All dogs are mongrels,fact,all breed types,be that Great Dane,Cocker Spaniel,Jack Russel etc.etc. are line bred to produce a specific type of canine.The KC in its infinite wisdom set breed standards that are at odds with a Working Standard.The hybrid Bedlingtons about now are much closer to the ORIGINAL in character and TYPE than the vast majority of the so called KC pure breds,the majority of which have hidden lineage that the breeders wish to disguise.Thus in my mind anything that looks and works like the early Bedlingtons is better befitting the name than the vast majority of their modern cousins.Its naive to get bogged down with pedigrees and purity,there never was a pure bred jukel,just some that are bred to fit a certain breed standard.The majority of breeds are less than a couple of centuries old,in that time the odd pinch of this and that as been sprinkled into the lineage to carry the line,thus modern Bedlingtons sprinkled with some of their ancestory are possibly more pure than some others?.Its about breeding a type of terrier that befits its name and breeding as a working terrier,if it looks and grafts like a Bedlington and breeds to type then its a Bedlington,if it looks and grafts like a Bedlington and does not breed to type,then its a work in progress,yet is more important to the survival of the Bedlington than any KC bred rubbish masquerading under false pretence.

 

How true to type are they breeding Morton?Once again I must stress,Im not crabbing your dogs,Im genuinly interested How level are litters,size,colour and conformation wise Cheers, Dave

[morton 5,367]

 

 

At what point does x bred stop/start becoming a Bedlington This topic fascinates me for some reason Is a 3/4 collie /grey a working Greyhound?or a lurcher? If I put a 1st cross patt/border over a border,will I have a Working Border....??? Ive no problem with people breeding what they like and Im sure they must be doing the job,but I wouldn't kid myself and call them Bedlingtons....and the argument of having fell/lakie in their ancestry so its ok to introduce more don't wash with me either,they are hybrids ,if they breed true give them a name "Linty Terrier" lolol sorry couldn't resist Im not anti Bedlington by the way,did a lot with one 30+years ago,fantastic dog (till it was stolen ) I just don't think this will "save" the breed as a working dog,bastardising it to enable it to do its job...

All dogs are mongrels,fact,all breed types,be that Great Dane,Cocker Spaniel,Jack Russel etc.etc. are line bred to produce a specific type of canine.The KC in its infinite wisdom set breed standards that are at odds with a Working Standard.The hybrid Bedlingtons about now are much closer to the ORIGINAL in character and TYPE than the vast majority of the so called KC pure breds,the majority of which have hidden lineage that the breeders wish to disguise.Thus in my mind anything that looks and works like the early Bedlingtons is better befitting the name than the vast majority of their modern cousins.Its naive to get bogged down with pedigrees and purity,there never was a pure bred jukel,just some that are bred to fit a certain breed standard.The majority of breeds are less than a couple of centuries old,in that time the odd pinch of this and that as been sprinkled into the lineage to carry the line,thus modern Bedlingtons sprinkled with some of their ancestory are possibly more pure than some others?.Its about breeding a type of terrier that befits its name and breeding as a working terrier,if it looks and grafts like a Bedlington and breeds to type then its a Bedlington,if it looks and grafts like a Bedlington and does not breed to type,then its a work in progress,yet is more important to the survival of the Bedlington than any KC bred rubbish masquerading under false pretence.

 

How true to type are they breeding Morton?Once again I must stress,Im not crabbing your dogs,Im genuinly interested How level are litters,size,colour and conformation wise Cheers, Dave

 

The Bedlington gene is very influential in any outcross,ive half x,s that are very Rothburyish,the second generation they are as near to the idyll Bedlington as any out there,then they breed true to type every time,the Outcross needs to be as pure as its possible to get,i used a red Fell bitch bred down from many generations of the same,ive yet to throw a red pup in the breeding,such is the Beddy influence.The Bedlington is higher on the leg than the majority of working terriers,always was,thus you look for that in the breeding.Ive yet to breed a dog over 15" or a bitch over 14" and a 1lb in weight ratio,working fit.I heavily line breed to get what i desire,ive at least 5 generations here that are typey and honest,the ones i graft,ive a couple of Bitches that my wife and daughter took on that im not allowed to work,ill happily breed from them as i know their history.Some of the half crosses throw to the Fell in type,yet retain the Black Beddy influence,thats were the Modern Black terriers owe so much of their ancestory to-Bedlington,id never enter these into my Bedlington breeding,especially as i have the luxury of owning their siblings that are more Bedlington influenced.Its taken me possibly 30 years to get were im at now and again i have the luxury many Working Bedlington breeders do not have,i don,t need to seek an outcross for at least the next 3 generations,as i only breed every 3 or 4 years that will possibly be as far as i wish to carry the breeding,then its up to my lad to carry it on,thats me fecked as he cannot see further than the half crosses and what they offer in the field.

[northern lad 2,292]

 

 

 

At what point does x bred stop/start becoming a Bedlington This topic fascinates me for some reason Is a 3/4 collie /grey a working Greyhound?or a lurcher? If I put a 1st cross patt/border over a border,will I have a Working Border....??? Ive no problem with people breeding what they like and Im sure they must be doing the job,but I wouldn't kid myself and call them Bedlingtons....and the argument of having fell/lakie in their ancestry so its ok to introduce more don't wash with me either,they are hybrids ,if they breed true give them a name "Linty Terrier" lolol sorry couldn't resist Im not anti Bedlington by the way,did a lot with one 30+years ago,fantastic dog (till it was stolen ) I just don't think this will "save" the breed as a working dog,bastardising it to enable it to do its job...

All dogs are mongrels,fact,all breed types,be that Great Dane,Cocker Spaniel,Jack Russel etc.etc. are line bred to produce a specific type of canine.The KC in its infinite wisdom set breed standards that are at odds with a Working Standard.The hybrid Bedlingtons about now are much closer to the ORIGINAL in character and TYPE than the vast majority of the so called KC pure breds,the majority of which have hidden lineage that the breeders wish to disguise.Thus in my mind anything that looks and works like the early Bedlingtons is better befitting the name than the vast majority of their modern cousins.Its naive to get bogged down with pedigrees and purity,there never was a pure bred jukel,just some that are bred to fit a certain breed standard.The majority of breeds are less than a couple of centuries old,in that time the odd pinch of this and that as been sprinkled into the lineage to carry the line,thus modern Bedlingtons sprinkled with some of their ancestory are possibly more pure than some others?.Its about breeding a type of terrier that befits its name and breeding as a working terrier,if it looks and grafts like a Bedlington and breeds to type then its a Bedlington,if it looks and grafts like a Bedlington and does not breed to type,then its a work in progress,yet is more important to the survival of the Bedlington than any KC bred rubbish masquerading under false pretence.

 

How true to type are they breeding Morton?Once again I must stress,Im not crabbing your dogs,Im genuinly interested How level are litters,size,colour and conformation wise Cheers, Dave

 

The Bedlington gene is very influential in any outcross,ive half x,s that are very Rothburyish,the second generation they are as near to the idyll Bedlington as any out there,then they breed true to type every time,the Outcross needs to be as pure as its possible to get,i used a red Fell bitch bred down from many generations of the same,ive yet to throw a red pup in the breeding,such is the Beddy influence.The Bedlington is higher on the leg than the majority of working terriers,always was,thus you look for that in the breeding.Ive yet to breed a dog over 15" or a bitch over 14" and a 1lb in weight ratio,working fit.I heavily line breed to get what i desire,ive at least 5 generations here that are typey and honest,the ones i graft,ive a couple of Bitches that my wife and daughter took on that im not allowed to work,ill happily breed from them as i know their history.Some of the half crosses throw to the Fell in type,yet retain the Black Beddy influence,thats were the Modern Black terriers owe so much of their ancestory to-Bedlington,id never enter these into my Bedlington breeding,especially as i have the luxury of owning their siblings that are more Bedlington influenced.Its taken me possibly 30 years to get were im at now and again i have the luxury many Working Bedlington breeders do not have,i don,t need to seek an outcross for at least the next 3 generations,as i only breed every 3 or 4 years that will possibly be as far as i wish to carry the breeding,then its up to my lad to carry it on,thats me fecked as he cannot see further than the half crosses and what they offer in the field.

 

Fair play Morton I didnt realise how far back this breeding went,I thought it was a more recent idea,shame your lad doesnt share your vision,but,as he ages you never know,I think we all" re asses"things as we get older,ATB Dave. Have you got any pics ?