jambay5 191 Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 as most know i'm a fan of the collie cross but it would be interesting to find out how many from a litter of pups that don't make the grade, were all 'bryn's' litter as good? maybe ray can join in... the same with my 'jazz' ? i know of one that didn't make it...........and going to the next step....... mating 'bryn' to 'jazz' what percentage of pups would make it? both good dogs and proven workers on all sorts of game but would their pups have it? I think worker to worker you will have a good chance of some good pups, but still down to the owner to put the time in to bring the dog on!! my own view is the sire must be top class proven! the dam although must be a worker its not as important as i have seen average track dog through good lurcher pups in the past!!! Quote Link to post
birddog 1,354 Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 as most know i'm a fan of the collie cross but it would be interesting to find out how many from a litter of pups that don't make the grade, were all 'bryn's' litter as good? maybe ray can join in... the same with my 'jazz' ? i know of one that didn't make it...........and going to the next step....... mating 'bryn' to 'jazz' what percentage of pups would make it? both good dogs and proven workers on all sorts of game but would their pups have it? I think worker to worker you will have a good chance of some good pups, but still down to the owner to put the time in to bring the dog on!! my own view is the sire must be top class proven! the dam although must be a worker its not as important as i have seen average track dog through good lurcher pups in the past!!! in the racing game anyone with the stud fee can take any bitch to a quality stud dog so more emphasis is placed on the bitches qualities and these stud dogs are producing lots of pups and in more cases than not its the pups from a good well bred bitch that make the grade Quote Link to post
Sirius 1,391 Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 (edited) as most know i'm a fan of the collie cross but it would be interesting to find out how many from a litter of pups that don't make the grade, were all 'bryn's' litter as good? maybe ray can join in... the same with my 'jazz' ? i know of one that didn't make it...........and going to the next step....... mating 'bryn' to 'jazz' what percentage of pups would make it? both good dogs and proven workers on all sorts of game but would their pups have it? I think worker to worker you will have a good chance of some good pups, but still down to the owner to put the time in to bring the dog on!! my own view is the sire must be top class proven! the dam although must be a worker its not as important as i have seen average track dog through good lurcher pups in the past!!! Thats all very well and I totally agree on worker to worker, but lets not forget bad conformation as that is not down to the 'owner'. With genetics things can pop up and make what would be(or is) a 'good worker' a failer due to physical problems which again will effect the % of whelps that will make it, or are of a standard to be bred from again. Edited to add I am not implying your sugested breeding may have these faults, just conformation can often be overlooked, but hopefully it will cause enough of a problem with lots of work people wont bred from the dog beacuse of this. Edited June 13, 2012 by Sirius Quote Link to post
birddog 1,354 Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 as most know i'm a fan of the collie cross but it would be interesting to find out how many from a litter of pups that don't make the grade, were all 'bryn's' litter as good? maybe ray can join in... the same with my 'jazz' ? i know of one that didn't make it...........and going to the next step....... mating 'bryn' to 'jazz' what percentage of pups would make it? both good dogs and proven workers on all sorts of game but would their pups have it? I think worker to worker you will have a good chance of some good pups, but still down to the owner to put the time in to bring the dog on!! my own view is the sire must be top class proven! the dam although must be a worker its not as important as i have seen average track dog through good lurcher pups in the past!!! Thats all very well and I totally agree on worker to worker, but lets not forget bad conformation as that is not down to the 'owner'. With genetics things can pop up and make what would be(or is) a 'good worker' a failer due to physical problems which again will effect the % of whelps that will make it, or are of a standard to be bred from again. Edited to add I am not implying your sugested breeding may have these faults, just conformation can often be overlooked, but hopefully it will cause enough of a problem with lots of work people wont bred from the dog beacuse of this. spot on there could also be inherited collie problems like hip dysplasia by concentrating certain unknown genes, if only it was as simple as worker to worker and the suggested breeding is only theoretical in order to get the point of the question across Quote Link to post
jambay5 191 Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 I agree if you breed any dog its a gamble!! but 2 healthy worker 2 worker you stand a better chance. Quote Link to post
border lad 1,047 Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 well I can go back to the late 50s from my first collie x and I never saw any collie lurcher with any hip problems, (((( only through hunting accidents,, just to throw a spanner in the works,,, AND i HOPE COUNTRY Joe, may throw his light on this one, the collie that was on the farm on those days, was a proper working dog, No quad bikes, the dog was the worker, with the help of his master, and in some areas the herd had a highland pony or a fell,type pony to go round and check the stock, fences, water, the natural collie, would be non stop and cover a lot of ground that morning, in my opinion they were a more harder and robust, certainly did not take to strangers, coming into the yard, and there was a certain few that was only good for lying at the back door, wth modern technolgy, field trialing becoming more popular, the collie has a lot less to do, and has become a softer breed of dog, in my opinion, Quote Link to post
freelance 448 Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 I would rather have border blood myself, however i did own a small beardie/border 3/4 bred bitch which was a very good dog in her time. She was easily trained and very obedient and also took all quarry. Maybe i was just lucky, as i seen some other beardie/borders work that had suspect temperaments and bad feet ( not all just some ). I have only watched one pure beardie cross work and that was a straight half cross and was owned by Mark H Glen who submitted articles about it in old EDRD. From what i seen it seemed a decent enough honest grafter. But again my own personnel view is keep the beardie and the border blood separate, and its the border blood for me Atb cheers Quote Link to post
Country Joe 1,411 Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Border lad, as you know there are still big long leggit Borders being used that work the hill, and will run all day, these are the type i would use, i wouldn't. bother with the trial dogs. i knew one farmer who looked after a top trial dog, for six months, said it was clever, but did not have the stamina of his other collies on the hill. 2 Quote Link to post
morton 5,369 Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Border lad, as you know there are still big long leggit Borders being used that work the hill, and will run all day, these are the type i would use, i wouldn't. bother with the trial dogs. i knew one farmer who looked after a top trial dog, for six months, said it was clever, but did not have the stamina of his other collies on the hill. Id agree with that to a point,but most trial dogs come from a working background and actually earn their keep working round the farm,there are some now that own a dog for trialling only,a very recent undertaking,i doubt these dogs are as physically or as mentally hard as some of their litter mates that never leave the farm,yet they are the same dog type.There is a growing number of Collie owners now who keep and breed the dogs for agility and obedience trials,a totally different trial and dogs,although bred from working ancestory,are bred with a different goal in mind,there suitability to work will never be tested,therefore the undesirable traits that would be frowned on in a working kennel and quickly eliminated,will crop up in these type Collies,thus would be less suitable for a dog with a working lifestyle in mind. Quote Link to post
Kye 77 Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 For anyone interested in pastrol/herding/drover type dogs, google 'Hairy Mouth Heelers'...there from south east missouri, and they are HARD dogs...crazy tough, and would do well crossed into some dogs back home ive no doubt! Quote Link to post
birddog 1,354 Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 would certainly be interesting, have any of the american hunters tried using their blood? Quote Link to post
Kye 77 Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 not that i know of mate...i would say most of the lads keep running dogs over here are hare coursers or coyote hunters...hare hunters use mostly saluki hybrids, yote guys use staghounds...as a rough HUNTING dog, or back home as a Lurcher cross, i think they would be very good indeed. Quote Link to post
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