Pure Instinct?

[Casso 1,261]

I guess my only problem now then is trying to avoid coming across one until she's ready to have a go, easier said than done.

she's ready to have a go,,

???...........physically she's not mature enough to have a go yet.

if she's mentally mature enough ,she will be physically mature enough , when she can arouse that sort of drive in herself she's genetically programmed to make contact with the fox, and when she makes contact she will be just functioning on instinct, that is, the knowledge to kill is in her very pores,she already knows what to do,

as skycat has already mentioned that ability to kill in the right breeding is preprogrammed, there is no thinking involved, drive has its own intelligence,the body is just following suit,

basically she already knows how to kill it ,some dogs have it ,some dont , yours sounds like she's on the money,,

Yeah I know what you're saying but she's still quite scrawny, I'd rather wait til she's bulked out enough to handle one easily. If I tried now I can guarantee I'd run into a hard as nails big dog fox that would put her off for life, don't want to risk it yet. I've updated my avatar pic so you can probably see what I mean, she's beginning to bulk up now but still has a fair way to go.

i can understand your fears,but your the only one with them, the dog doesn't have them, but you know the dog better than anyone and have to do right by her and if thats what you feel thats fair enough,,

im not a big fan of nursing a dog on ,some dogs will some wont, if a dog doesnt fancy it ,fair enough,and some dogs enjoy that sort of contact more than anything and find that lesser quarry just doesn't fulfill them the same,

had a pup here ,on a dig just as an experience for him, broke through,terrier still sounding,pup got off straight over to the opening ,couple of barks at charlie,head first into the hole,whipped out charlie ,all over in seconds ,9 months old, not a drop of terrier blood in his body either,,natural born killer

It's not fears as such, it's doing what I need to do to make sure she doesn't get ruined by my impatience. I'm sure she would have chased hares at the age of 3 months but it wouldn't have been a wise thing for me to let her do would it. She possibly....probably, could do the job now but I'd rather wait til she definitely can do the job. I'm not one of these that would pass on a dog or pts if it failed, especially if the failure was a result of something that I've done. Surely everyone nurses their dogs to some extent, otherwise you'd just take your dogs out as soon as they can walk and let them tackle anything they can get to wouldn't you?

Everything within reason bud, chasing hares at 3 months is maybe a little early the way i see it, how do you get to a stage where you will know, unless you try,,an IF its in the dog ,it will come out,,even if the first time wasn't pretty ,if its there its there,,

bud i dont want to influence you either way, we all have our own way of approaching these things,,18 months 2 years,waiting , hoping ,im a great believer that if its there it'll come out,,anyway best of luck with her,,,

[watchman 256]

I mainly got her for rabbits and plan on moving up to other prey as we go along,

 

if your willing to wait till its over two year old before finding out if its got what it takes on other prey then thats your choice,seems a lot of dog in the mix for a purely rabbiting lurcher though if you find out it dont like the sharp end,think id want to know sooner (not to soon obviously) rather than later if it was me,at the end of the day its you that knows the dog we can all give an opinion but its you that has to make that final choice at 13 month old id want it at least to be shown something in the next coming months maybe with another dog that knows its job,

[WILF 50,708]

Personally, I dont expect too much of a dog in season 1 BUT if its been shown plenty of tackle and its not cutting the mustard (or at least improving) in season 2 then questions need to be asked...............

Edited August 12, 2011 by WILF

[derekbrown 176]

start her in a month on a couple of this years foxes,she will probably get bitten but wont be as severe as a big one in december or january.give her the first few with an older dog.after that you wont be long finding out is she worth feeding or not.

[Guest born to run1083]

to be honest I think the bloke has got his head is screwed on, no point rushing if your happy to wait till next season then do so then you will 100% know she's ready, only you will know when the times right, to many people are in a rush to get to the next stage and that's the common reason for jibbers and jackers due to wrong entering. I have a dog that rips on the lead for Charlie she goes sick for them but I can nearly 100% say she won't kill one or even have the know to kill one, but in time when she gets older I hope she will have ago. goes to show just because the dogs showing initial prey drive doesn't mean it's mature enough to see it through yet i'd wait till 18 months and do the CORRECT stages of entering

[Casso 1,261]

to be honest I think the bloke has got his head is screwed on, no point rushing if your happy to wait till next season then do so then you will 100% know she's ready, only you will know when the times right, to many people are in a rush to get to the next stage and that's the common reason for jibbers and jackers due to wrong entering. I have a dog that rips on the lead for Charlie she goes sick for them but I can nearly 100% say she won't kill one or even have the know to kill one, but in time when she gets older I hope she will have ago. goes to show just because the dogs showing initial prey drive doesn't mean it's mature enough to see it through yet i'd wait till 18 months and do the CORRECT stages of entering

i would ask , will you ever know 100% that the dog is ready ,how will you know the time is right, the dogs behavior, dogs age,

and if its not ready its not, but if its got what it takes it will only increase its want even more,

i believe a fox dog is born not made, saw a few young dogs spanked in contact early in there career, and come good because it only increased their drive second time round,

maybe i have a different view on this because i dont believe the the fox is the be all and end all of lurcher work

,im not that bother if the dog works them or not, so i try the mutt ,see how he feels on them , leave it up to him as such, if he likes them great if he dont fine,,im easy either way,,cant eat them cant sell them,im not bringing it home with me,,whats the point ,,killing for the sake of killing,,

But your right he knows the dog better than anyone ,and if the dog commits and doesn't fancy it ,he'll only blame himself,and thats hard , but that not how i see it ,too much spoken about jibbers and jackers , as if its a shame full thing that the dog dont fancy charlie,

very like the thread up yesterday , its more about how we see ourselves through our dogs ,

[Guest born to run1083]

yeah but casso how many dogs jack from early entry to late entry on teeth that like saying I got a dog ripping me down the field after teeth at say ten months old, you wouldn't really slip it would you at that age, your right a dog has either got it or not as its down to heart but many get dis heartened from started to early, I wouldn't wanna risk early entry on a dog that's gonna be with me for say 10 years working when you can wait a few more months to make sure the mental development is there.

[Ideation 8,217]

Some dogs want it WAY before they are ready. Mine has been obsessed with them since a pup, for some unknown reason.

[bird 10,014]

My last bullxgrey i had had he is (1st )fox when he was 14 month old this was in 89. i Didnt double him up, i was going to but the night he caught it i was only looking for rabbits really. I wanted to get him better in the lamp, so thought give him give him few runs on rabbits, to get him sharper. That night got 1/2 dozen rabbits, was going back home .When i thought i will give this last couple of fields quick look, feck me right in the middle of the field a fox. I didnt bother calling, just let him go and see what happens. He put 3-4 turns in then grabbed it,and it grabbed him. He loosed then went in again and grabbed it in the back and that was the end of that. .So to me it had to be instinct, he came from good dogs all proven . With any dog you need that bit of luck with the pup you pick, but if well bred the instinct should come out when its ready,? only some might start abit quicker than others thats all.

[cantona 310]

Rob, as I have already said, its not the size of the dog, but what is in its heart and head. I don't nurse my dogs as such, and most of my good fox killing dogs have stumbled across one before I'd have said that they were ready. Yes, if a dog is a doubtful prospect as a fox dog, then an early encounter which gets the dog bitten may well put it off for life, but in my experience, any dog which doesn't have the right mental attributes for fox will quit when it gets bitten, no matter when that happens. A young dog may show a lot of promise and take a few in the company of other dogs, and not get bitten, but the moment it does feel the sharp end of Charlie it will quit cold.

 

The little bitch I mentioned earlier had a nasty experience with her first fox: it got hold of her tongue!!! The moment she got free, minus a bit of her tongue, she screamed hysterically and went in for a bit of serious pay back, and killed the fox stone dead in seconds: throat hold: she seldom got bitten again, but would sooner take a pasting than let a fox get away.

 

If you think that your's has a 'kill it' attitude, could you not enter her alongside a dog which is already doing the business?

how was the bitch bred was if bred from foxing parents

[WILF 50,708]

All I will add is dogs are hard to bring on, but very easy to ruin.

[bird 10,014]

All I will add is dogs are hard to bring on, but very easy to ruin.

 

 

spot on

[Guest born to run1083]

All I will add is dogs are hard to bring on, but very easy to ruin.

 

 

spot on

completly agree

[Malt 379]

Over the past couple of weeks while walking on the streets at night twice we've stumbled across a fox. When I'm out and she spots a rabbit she's bang on it but on these two occassions when she's spotted a fox she's gone feckin mental, and I mean 5 times more intense than if she spotted any other prey (rabbit, hare, rat etc). Is it just pure instinct for them to deal with foxes or what? Have I been pondering over how to introduce her for nothing? It'll just happen by pure instinct?

 

It's totally natural canine behaviour for dogs to want to chase and kill foxes. In the wild larger canines will not tolerate smaller ones and usually kill them at every opportunity. Getting any dog to chase a fox isn't the problem, it's just a matter of the dog knowing what to do and being ready to deal with it when it's actually caught it.

[leegreen 2,250]

Isn't this like, illegal?

 

Pre-ban dogs would take them before 12 months, every thing was better then, just look at Wagon Wheels