Otters

[Bryan 1,361]

The otter is one animal I haven't much sympathy for.

First, they are a lot more common than we're led to believe (in Ireland anyway).

They are a very wastefull animal. I've seen a 7lb brown trout with a single bite taken out of it and left to rot. As well as eels and salmon.

They kill more than they can eat. Yes the fox does too, but usually in a shed or pen. The otter will kill for the sake of it on the river or lake. He's a very efficient predator indeed.

So, IMO if the fox and the mink are worthy of being a quarry species, then why not old Tarka ????

 

And I'm not just saying this because one of the buggers took 26 mallard on me last year.

 

 

Ah will you stop, they are a great animal. Twas a Mink took your mallard and who needs fish clogging up rivers when we have Fish Fingers?

[Mosby 355]

I've been on a number of them. All but one bolted very easily. The other gave my hard dog a time to remember. Otter don't just leave puncture marks they rip chunks off the dog. The dens I have had experience with have all been very large. A 30 pound dog would do the job well if you wanted to dig to it. If shooting bolters, the average earth dog could be put down to one and not do a bad job. I've bolted them several times with dogs I later culled. For a dog to stick it out with one that refuses to bolt, that is something else. I could tell my best dog was thinking twice about what he got into. He was under with it for 45 minutes and he was only making contact for a very small portion of that before realizing that baying was the much better option. I hear the otters get bigger toward the ocean around here. My friend who has hunted terriers decades longer than I have won't put his dogs on otter. He has seen an otter buzz through his dogs like a chainsaw and leave several dead. They are tough as hell if they want to be.

[spindolero 1,109]

I've been on a number of them. All but one bolted very easily. The other gave my hard dog a time to remember. Otter don't just leave puncture marks they rip chunks off the dog. The dens I have had experience with have all been very large. A 30 pound dog would do the job well if you wanted to dig to it. If shooting bolters, the average earth dog could be put down to one and not do a bad job. I've bolted them several times with dogs I later culled. For a dog to stick it out with one that refuses to bolt, that is something else. I could tell my best dog was thinking twice about what he got into. He was under with it for 45 minutes and he was only making contact for a very small portion of that before realizing that baying was the much better option. I hear the otters get bigger toward the ocean around here. My friend who has hunted terriers decades longer than I have won't put his dogs on otter. He has seen an otter buzz through his dogs like a chainsaw and leave several dead. They are tough as hell if they want to be.

 

are they the same otters as we have in europe?

[Mosby 355]

Very similar. John Broadhurst claimed they were just alike.

[tonybarbel 7]

We are overrun with them in Norfolk due to otter trust releasing them for last 26 years they have been responsible for numerous large barbel kills if we had salmon river here they would of had cull by now I know or several fisheries that have lost large carp to them as well .

[fat man 4,740]

Mosby you say an otter buzzed through your mate's dogs killing several of them,how many were to ground with it and what were they.I personally think thats pure bullshit as an otter is not as hard as badger,or as tough skinned and if this did happen which i doubt very much then your mates dogs must be shite earth dogs.When you look back at some terriers that were used for diging otter,what you have said is pure nonsence.Ok their tough and as fast as fox to hit underground,but any decent terrier should be well fit to hold one at bay.JMO.

[Bryan 1,361]

Mosby you say an otter buzzed through your mate's dogs killing several of them,how many were to ground with it and what were they.I personally think thats pure bullshit as an otter is not as hard as badger,or as tough skinned and if this did happen which i doubt very much then your mates dogs must be shite earth dogs.When you look back at some terriers that were used for diging otter,what you have said is pure nonsence.Ok their tough and as fast as fox to hit underground,but any decent terrier should be well fit to hold one at bay.JMO.

 

American Badger is very different to the European Badger,Irish Badgers are very different in their habits than british ones,

 

no reason to think otters wouldn't be any different?

 

American Otters tend to live together in large social groups, which would make things a lot tougher for a terrier.

Bryan

[liamdelaney 2,585]

Mosby you say an otter buzzed through your mate's dogs killing several of them,how many were to ground with it and what were they.I personally think thats pure bullshit as an otter is not as hard as badger,or as tough skinned and if this did happen which i doubt very much then your mates dogs must be shite earth dogs.When you look back at some terriers that were used for diging otter,what you have said is pure nonsence.Ok their tough and as fast as fox to hit underground,but any decent terrier should be well fit to hold one at bay.JMO.

 

American Badger is very different to the European Badger,Irish Badgers are very different in their habits than british ones,

 

no reason to think otters wouldn't be any different?

 

American Otters tend to live together in large social groups, which would make things a lot tougher for a terrier.

Bryan

 

Just out of intrest how are irish badgers different in their habits than British ones?

[nipper78 81]

Mosby you say an otter buzzed through your mate's dogs killing several of them,how many were to ground with it and what were they.I personally think thats pure bullshit as an otter is not as hard as badger,or as tough skinned and if this did happen which i doubt very much then your mates dogs must be shite earth dogs.When you look back at some terriers that were used for diging otter,what you have said is pure nonsence.Ok their tough and as fast as fox to hit underground,but any decent terrier should be well fit to hold one at bay.JMO.

 

American Badger is very different to the European Badger,Irish Badgers are very different in their habits than british ones,

 

no reason to think otters wouldn't be any different?

 

American Otters tend to live together in large social groups, which would make things a lot tougher for a terrier.

Bryan

 

Just out of intrest how are irish badgers different in their habits than British ones?

You should know the answer to that one liam, irish one's wear a lilly and the british ones wear a poppy

[nipper78 81]

Mosby you say an otter buzzed through your mate's dogs killing several of them,how many were to ground with it and what were they.I personally think thats pure bullshit as an otter is not as hard as badger,or as tough skinned and if this did happen which i doubt very much then your mates dogs must be shite earth dogs.When you look back at some terriers that were used for diging otter,what you have said is pure nonsence.Ok their tough and as fast as fox to hit underground,but any decent terrier should be well fit to hold one at bay.JMO.

 

American Badger is very different to the European Badger,Irish Badgers are very different in their habits than british ones,

 

no reason to think otters wouldn't be any different?

 

American Otters tend to live together in large social groups, which would make things a lot tougher for a terrier.

Bryan

 

Just out of intrest how are irish badgers different in their habits than British ones?

You should know the answer to that one liam, irish one's wear a lilly and the british ones wear a poppy

[Mosby 355]

Fat man. Read the clause "near the coast they are larger". our otter get quite large and I stand by what I say that they could kill an earth dog. Even a good one.I don't know John Broadhurst personally but he is who I have heard tell say that they are very similar to the british otters. My friends dogs were no shite dogs. I know that first hand from seeing them.

[Mosby 355]

I'm gonna look up the size of your otters and see for myself what the differences are.

[Mosby 355]

Just looked them up. They look identical but the european otter is 12-19inches long. The River otter that we hunt here is 36-48inches. Big difference there boys.

[neil cooney 10,415]

That's wrong Mosby. I look at several road kill otters every year and also live in an area that has the highest population of otters in Ireland.

I've seen up to 5 otters in a mornings fishing and have had them swim within a few feet of my legs. I've also seen a yellow coloured otter. He was a large dog over 3 foot long.

Anyhow, officially, the lenght of our otter is 95 to 130 cm. That's over 4 foot in ordinary talk.

I'd guess a big dog could weigh 40 lbs. But I could be wrong.

Otter hunting only ceased in Ireland in '92 so there's still plenty of hunting folk around who remember what they were like to hunt and work with terriers.

The general opinion is that they bolted very quickly when allowed to but could make life hard for a terrier when the terrier made his life hard.

A terrier I bred that ended up in another mans hands killed one in a small stream years ago in front of 5 lads who were just out for a ramble.

The same terrier killed most of her foxes to ground but wasn't the best digging dog ever. So I guess terriers handling an otter on top wasn't out of the question.

Didn't Bert Gripton once say that a pack of terriers could manage otter numbers as well as a pack of hounds.

But that's all in the past now.

 

As for Irish badgers and British badgers being different ?

It's widely acceppted that the badgers of Ireland and mainland Europe are much more solitary than the badgers of britain who live in large family groups.

That's why in the old stories of badger digging you'd regularly see photos of many dead badgers but if you look at the footage of legal badger digs in europe on youtube etc. it's often only one badger that sticks his head out at the end.

[Bryan 1,361]

 

As for Irish badgers and British badgers being different ?

It's widely acceppted that the badgers of Ireland and mainland Europe are much more solitary than the badgers of britain who live in large family groups.

That's why in the old stories of badger digging you'd regularly see photos of many dead badgers but if you look at the footage of legal badger digs in europe on youtube etc. it's often only one badger that sticks his head out at the end.

 

 

Spot on Neil, Grainne Cleary in her recent study for UCD found that Irish badgers don't eat a lot of worms, unlike british badgers , but like badgers elsewhere in Europe. They mostly eat "leather jacket" larvae in spring, frogs,wasps and bees in the summer.

 

This leads to british badgers living in larger adult groups,

british setts are larger on average

dry weather has a more negative effect on british badgers as it effects worms so much.

 

Bryan