hard terriers

[howdeeposxxt 1,448]

It 2 to 1 and a half dozen with the other as they say.

[foxdropper 17,092]

Some of you lads that dig and release CAN end up  creating hard terriers from otherwise  steady week in week out dogs or sicken them altogether. The notion that released quarry makes for a better dog has always baffled me. Educated stuff requires a hard type or it' not staying to be dug to but then same lads are  moaning dog is too hard and only gets minimal work .I' rather dog gets regular work myself but that's just me .

[neil cooney 10,415]

1 hour ago, dogmandont said:

It’s one or the other. 

I started keeping working terriers around '86 and the lads who showed me the ropes had all dug Badger legally and taken part in trials. Back then they seemed to have two schools of thought regarding the entering of terriers. Some lads preferred to enter them starting at the bottom of the ladder by rats, foxes and then the almighty badger, but the man who showed me the ropes was a 100% Jack Russell fancier who told me he used to enter his terriers to badger first to show his terriers some discretion. If he entered them to fox first they might become hard, learn how to kill one and then when they met a badger they'd try the same. Coming off worse. But by entering them to badger they'd learn to sit back and bay and would have a longer life.

Then along came the Fell Terrier and some of the lines brought to Ireland had come from hard fox killing lines from the North of Britain and some of those lines when they came to be used Irish style got bad names for themselves because they went in in the style they were bred for and usually came away badly. It took a while for the Irish terrierman to find the right lines and learn how to breed them right.

The entering of a terrier pup can have a lot to do with it's future as a worker but if the terrierman who has it knows what way it's meant to work (because of it's breeding) then it should work to it's breeding. I don't believe in trying to mold a terrier into something it's not. Although most of us have tried at some stage.

[Rabbit Hunter 6,608]

29 minutes ago, foxdropper said:

Some of you lads that dig and release CAN end up  creating hard terriers from otherwise  steady week in week out dogs or sicken them altogether. The notion that released quarry makes for a better dog has always baffled me. Educated stuff requires a hard type or it' not staying to be dug to but then same lads are  moaning dog is too hard and only gets minimal work .I' rather dog gets regular work myself but that's just me .

And to me FD, that's when you know what you've got. Dogs that bay away at green stuff all their lives are never truly tested, surely? Sometimes the game doesn't want to be dug, and when you have that dog that still gets them animals, then you've cracked it, until the next mating at least

Edited March 1, 2018 by Rabbit Hunter

[foxdropper 17,092]

Seen it all before mate and the results arnt for me. Mine will do whats asked on some else's releases but  not by choice .I know what I'm keeping and would rather dig more with a dog than see it f****d in kennels .Ive seen enough "hard" terriers to last me a lifetime and tbh they mean more to me than a macho image some favour over the actual work. 

Enough down time from so called green stuff without creating it .

 

[Glyn..... 5,199]

26 minutes ago, neil cooney said:

I started keeping working terriers around '86 and the lads who showed me the ropes had all dug Badger legally and taken part in trials. Back then they seemed to have two schools of thought regarding the entering of terriers. Some lads preferred to enter them starting at the bottom of the ladder by rats, foxes and then the almighty badger, but the man who showed me the ropes was a 100% Jack Russell fancier who told me he used to enter his terriers to badger first to show his terriers some discretion. If he entered them to fox first they might become hard, learn how to kill one and then when they met a badger they'd try the same. Coming off worse. But by entering them to badger they'd learn to sit back and bay and would have a longer life.

Then along came the Fell Terrier and some of the lines brought to Ireland had come from hard fox killing lines from the North of Britain and some of those lines when they came to be used Irish style got bad names for themselves because they went in in the style they were bred for and usually came away badly. It took a while for the Irish terrierman to find the right lines and learn how to breed them right.

The entering of a terrier pup can have a lot to do with it's future as a worker but if the terrierman who has it knows what way it's meant to work (because of it's breeding) then it should work to it's breeding. I don't believe in trying to mold a terrier into something it's not. Although most of us have tried at some stage.

two saying i've hated to be told by people who have had a terrier off me usually first season pups that starts abit rough  "i'll work him sore he'll learn to bay " and "this terrier will never jib"

[howdeeposxxt 1,448]

3 minutes ago, foxdropper said:

Seen it all before mate and the results arnt for me. Mine will do whats asked on some else's releases but  not by choice .I know what I'm keeping and would rather dig more with a dog than see it f****d in kennels .Ive seen enough "hard" terriers to last me a lifetime and tbh they mean more to me than a macho image some favour over the actual work. 

Enough down time from so called green stuff without creating it .

 

What is your view on a hard one I mean what work does it portray to do when below  fd surly they are worth more to the terrierman than a medal of bigballs and synical ego's..

[Rabbit Hunter 6,608]

5 minutes ago, foxdropper said:

Seen it all before mate and the results arnt for me. Mine will do whats asked on some else's releases but  not by choice .I know what I'm keeping and would rather dig more with a dog than see it f****d in kennels .Ive seen enough "hard" terriers to last me a lifetime and tbh they mean more to me than a macho image some favour over the actual work. 

Enough down time from so called green stuff without creating it .

 

That's fair enough mate, your dogs your choice. But personally I'm part of the 'time to ground' rather than 'no of heads' team. The steady dog that gets bashed up on an educated quarry isn't a hindrance, but more of a digging dog, he adjusts his style and 'ups the gears' as my mate says to get the result.

If I had a breeding worthy bitch and had the choice of a dog that has dug 200 in the same County or a dog that has dug 50 all over the Country, I know which one I would choose.

[foxdropper 17,092]

A

27 minutes ago, howdeeposxxt said:

What is your view on a hard one I mean what work does it portray to do when below  fd surly they are worth more to the terrierman than a medal of bigballs and synical ego's..

Call me soft call me whatever mate but I never set out to wilfully harm my dogs which is exactly whats happening when stuff is released and purposefully dug to again .Ive seen enough damage done by stuff that's never seen a dog  to want to create  more .My idea of a hard dog dosnt differ from anybody else'. Its there if needed but id rather it isn't.

[Daniel cain 42,876]

Some dogs can look to be the bollocks in one county.... Take them out of their comfort zone.... Look silly the next county over . The bigger the selection of ground you dig them in,  the better the dog imo. Agree with rh on hours to ground than over numbers?

[howdeeposxxt 1,448]

2 minutes ago, foxdropper said:

A

Call me soft call me whatever mate but I never set out to wilfully harm my dogs which is exactly whats happening when stuff is released and purposefully dug to again .Ive seen enough damage done by stuff that's never seen a dog  to want to create  more .My idea of a hard dog dosnt differ from anybody else'. Its there if needed but ic rather it isn't.

You have a point I'm not disagreeing on that it just the part where do  macho ego come into the hard terrier game . That' the explanation I want explained why do so many label a good honest hard working dog  a piece of equipment that no Gooders use to look good. I feel so many belive this type is just a bet up price of shite and has no place here in the game.  Look I hate labelling these dogs as smashed up bits a meat that the teenager has showing of on fb. Worse still people buying into it . A good working terrier is a good working terrier at the end a the day and deserve to be worked. The title hard is going against the grain a messy dog should be called that not anything else and defo not hard

[foxdropper 17,092]

4 minutes ago, Rabbit Hunter said:

That's fair enough mate, your dogs your choice. But personally I'm part of the 'time to ground' rather than 'no of heads' team. The steady dog that gets bashed up on an educated quarry isn't a hindrance, but more of a digging dog, he adjusts his style and 'ups the gears' as my mate says to get the result.

If I had a breeding worthy bitch and had the choice of a dog that has dug 200 in the same County or a dog that has dug 50 all over the Country, I know which one I would choose.

Your taking it wrong mate and thinking I'm green myself lol

I'e seen all manor of dogs in all manor if earth s and I own dogs that can step up to anything ,ask the Welsh lads .Time to ground comes with the territory but no one in their right mind puts a hard type to ground on educated stuff in a deep place without trying to prove to others rather himself that the dog is all that .Its not about head counts either it's about working the dogs .Time out is down time for work and I know what I'd rather be doing .

[foxdropper 17,092]

2 minutes ago, howdeeposxxt said:

You have a point I'm not disagreeing on that it just the part where do  macho ego come into the hard terrier game . That' the explanation I want explained why do so many label a good honest hard working dog  a piece of equipment that no Gooders use to look good. I feel so many belive this type is just a bet up price of shite and has no place here in the game.  Look I hate labelling these dogs as smashed up bits a meat that the teenager has showing of on fb. Worse still people buying into it . A good working terrier is a good working terrier at the end a the day and deserve to be worked. The title hard is going against the grain a messy dog should be called that not anything else and defo not hard

If you don' know anyone that uses the dog as a macho tool mate then you've been lucky ,the game is rife with them and best ignored ,a blight on the game. 

[howdeeposxxt 1,448]

5 minutes ago, foxdropper said:

If you don' know anyone that uses the dog as a macho tool mate then you've been lucky ,the game is rife with them and best ignored ,a blight on the game. 

Answer me this if letting a terrier that can go in and hold educated quarry without baying and taking little punishment till dug too. How should that be labeled ??? A blight but no need to blacken the good ones cause a the tools who do such thing

Edited March 1, 2018 by howdeeposxxt

[foxdropper 17,092]

A f***ing  miracle mate ?

Joking aside ,yes I've seen it but does that sane dog do sane every ime it encounters educated stuff or just the odd time .