Plummer terriers

[EPTR 4]

i once bred my plummer bitch who was out of mask she was smooth coated

but her brother was rough but her to a dog out of jackxsadie who was smooth

and produce 2rough pups out the litter

 

Arrr did you get any wiered liver colours? as mask was a dd and jack was a tri..

[samba 534]

whats a dd

[pointer 543]

I consider Curtis a friend and if he says that Mask is out of Maggot then ill go with that,rumours are rife in the dog world and with such a mix of terriers in those earlier plummers who knows what could crop up when inbred.Maybe something further back wasnt bred as it was supposed to be.Anyway,im not a plummer breeder and nothing ive owned or bred from or anything ill have in the future will affect todays plummers in anyway so its irrelevant really.

 

Thinking about it further Mask cant be out of Quest because Quest had a litter from Mask and Curtis wouldnt have done that lining of Son/Mother ,so i think the rough coats are either some weird gene or something else isnt bred as said.

Edited June 11, 2010 by pointer

[samba 534]

i think nowadays the plummer is bred to be properly coloured and not for

working ability that were it gone wrong imo

 

not saying there isnt any that work well because there his and ive seen

these with my own eyes

good luck to all who breed them but give me a worker over a caped show standard

anytime

[wippydoo 12]

http://en.wikipedia....ybrid_(biology)

 

 

and if you click on canid hybrids it takes you to this page.i rest my case

 

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Canid_hybrid

SPECIES not BREED

Tinytiger im not being pedantic about this, you mentioned breeding for hybrid vigour which if you do know anything about genetics you ARENT doing.dont call one thing by the name of another, anyone who doesnt know anything about genetics reading your post will believe what you are saying whereas anyone who does know anything about genetics and dog breeding will of course know different.its wrong to put things like this in the public domain as thats how myths and misinformation start.before you know it every numpty reading this will be quoting you and saying ive crossed my russell with a plummer cos im breeding for hybrid vigour!

 

 

tell us all about it so,its a phenomenon thats immediaely apparant in newborn pups..look at the olympic decathalon CHAMPIONS,Daley Thompson,Dan o Brien,brian clay>ALL HALF CASTE,basically what your saying is offspring that dont come from parents of completely diffefent species are incapable of coming more vigorous/better than either parent>why do people who do fen coursing use saluki/greyhounds? Vigor.Why are crossbred hounds used throughout the whole world.

 

Your so smart ,you have to be a MANPANZEE.<a href="http://s905.photobuc...ent=pups030.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i905.photobuc...tos/pups030.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

 

f2 plummer/pitbull Hybrids,crossbreeds,mongrels whatever you want to call them,Lets not be pedantic

 

 

nice pups, its not pedantic to say theyre not hybrids cos they aint.theyre a crossbreed.and they dont have hybrid vigour.the first generation of crossbreeds are sometimes more hardy that the parents(but not always)but that hardiness is usually lost after the first generation.people who cross one breed with another are usually doing it in the hope that the resulting canids will inherit some of the parents qualities.sometimes they will sometimes they wont.but and its a big but, they ARENT hybrid and they WONT have hybrid vigour.

im not querying what youre doing like i said before im querying what you call it

by the way i dont think id be a manpanzee maybe a womanpanzee though

[half n' half 8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedant

[stormyboy 1,352]

by the way i dont think id be a manpanzee maybe a womanpanzee though

 

Is that you dragging your poor man by the hair in your avatar?

[Moorman 1 1,322]

Glenn if you read back through you will see that I have asked two questions and both seem to have been ignored...?

One was are you saying that Vandal wasn't a Plummer?

And the other was how many foxes have YOU taken in the last season with YOUR terriers?

Thanks

Sorry to have missed this one but not ignored, wondered what bill was on about my sincere apologies, mark.

 

Vandal, was he a Plummer with 28% vampire blood a halfbred jrt.? Plummer.. he and others then for PR purposes was named plummer terriers as were so many but they were not true breeding enough to be called a breed...others bred more true as well...but then when you consider vandals pedigree, how could they have been when the fathers sire was crossbred and the rest of the pedigree mongrelized. Offspirng from vandal sometimes resembled other breeds a sign of homozygosity . AS DID MANY ..AS I SADI BEFORE THEY WERE INGREDIENTS ...Brian himself bred variables by the dozen due to homozygosity I had one .

 

Name me any of Brians dogs ever that have no other breed blood in them for more than 4 generations ..you will find none.

 

His famous vampire halfbred 50% jrt minimum

Omega 37% jrt

One of the last dogs he bred nailer over 28% jrt numerous jrt and fells in just 4 generations .

 

 

As for Fox work none no need foxes dont take my fish.the water must be to cold for them,or snorkels interfere with there senses lol.

 

Would be nice to have some local foxes to play with but to tell you the truth they aren't numerous enough here due to keepers and digging foxes and taken piccys of the reults is a sad macho thing i grew out of.

 

If i encounter one then great (prefer hunting the rat and used to love mink hunting with my pack but thats illegal now !! :sick: )but seeking out earths on a wet sunday morning digging great big holes in the ground to see me terrier working a fox not really my scene anymore as i said before bin there done that in my youth. Prefer others who work there dogs to prove my lines instincts.

 

 

There's no art to fox work had terriers at hunt service and with loners who give me feed back..and as stated before have had a recent report my x stud now a pet lost to ground on foxy loxy. Infact his son tylos was to ground for 2 hours at a fox. The lad dug him out and gave the fox best. Good enough for me the dog though bred from many none earth dogs did what he thought was right...nearly cost the lad his dog mind but thats a different story. And in true irish fashion promtly lined his patterdale with him !!

 

 

Theres no art to fox work,a bold statement indeed.By saying that it shows that you have never done it to any standard.Glenn the fox is the only legal quarry that you can truly test your offspring on.You say that you have been there and done that now grown out of it.Several years back you said to me that you hadn't really done any earthwork as you couldn't find foxes around your way,which also says a lot for you as a working terrierman.

Everyone has different standards.As I said in an earlier post some say their dogs work and only take two or three a season,and others may take a hundred.I have seen many terriers look good for a few digs then when the workload gets a bit heavier throw the towel in.I have seen many terriers put out to a hunt and never get worked properly.A lot of people seem to think that hunt work is the ultimate thing, but I can honestly say that some of the worst standards of terrierwork that I have ever witnessed were hunt terriermen.

Glenn I really fail to see why anyone would farm a dog out to give it work.I would want to enter the young dogs myself, to make sure that it was done what I would call properly and I would want to witness them at their work so that I could judge them for myself and not take other peoples words for it as I have said we all have different ideas.

How do you know the stud was lost to ground on a fox?Did they get the fox out?

The other lad you say he dug the fox and give it best?Did he or couldn't he get the fox with the dog?If you were working them yourself you would know these things firsthand.

There seems to be an awful lot of Plummers lost and assumed lost whilst heroically working a fox,(Proteous) being one.You say Tylos was 2 hours to ground on a fox good enough for me.So are you rating the dog as good enough for you as in to breed from?After 2 hours on a fox,he could have been stuck or blocked himself in.As I have said many look good even for a season then quit.It is a shame that the Plummers are no longer being properly tested as there were and probably are still some that are very good foxdogs.I actually had one myself.I have also dug many times to some of Vandals offspring and still do on occassions.Some of the best earthworking Plummers came from Bills kennels. I just wish that he was still producing his stuff.A mate of mine had a daughter of Vandal and mated her back to her sire and all the progeny from that mating were outstanding in the ground and as good a terriers as I have seen on fox.

Mark.

 

 

Where do i start

 

I wont start with lines like this.... "By saying that it shows that you have never done it to any standard." so my fox working standards arent the same as yours... whatever standard theres is!

 

My fox working days were in my teens and in my twenties.I have worked terriers and mongrols to foxes and fells and russels and plummers to have enough knowledge to say that theres no art to it..my opinion yours may differ as many do on here.

 

I certainly am not going into the "ive had more foxes than you rubbish" as most cant prove it anyway.

 

So ..you say..

 

"Glenn I really fail to see why anyone would farm a dog out to give it work.I would want to enter the young dogs myself, to make sure that it was done what I would call properly and I would want to witness them at their work so that I could judge them for myself and not take other peoples words for it as I have said we all have different ideas.

How do you know the stud was lost to ground on a fox?Did they get the fox out?

The other lad you say he dug the fox and give it best?Did he or couldn't he get the fox with the dog?If you were working them yourself you would know these things firsthand."

 

I should have said... that i had "GIVEN" the above dogs away. After i do when i have finished with them.

 

One dog was "farmed away " jazz to be proven and he did just that!.

 

But in an ideal world then yes i would love to be able to pop out and have a quick play with foxy..but then life is not always so easy...however that deos'nt bother me so much as it seems to bother "real teriermen on here"

 

Tylos and his sire Ransum both were given away these are the dogs i refered too sorry if it came across that they were "farmed out" to prove themselves with someone else ..for me ..if they work well for the new owner then fine .

 

But if i had a friend relialble and close by to work my terriers to fox for me then bingo letem get on with digging great holes...

 

 

Any fox work is an advatage to any terrier of mine when they leave here they usualy do well and i have good reports back...some mink hunting only dogs like tylos go on and entertain their new owners with varied sport.

 

Your assumptions on Tylos little 2 hour stint are just that assumptions in the negative...but then i expected this would be the case.

 

Proteus (bred by plummer) was dug by me many times before he went to wales to hunt service were he didnt last long as he was the hardest plummer terrier ive ever seen work fox or seen take a pain.Price witnessed this in wales after he stayed when rocky and 6 other of prices best terrier did'nt ..infact rocky didnt find at all.If i recall and we dog 8 feet thro clay before proteus herd us and bolted the fox which was duely missed by prices shotgun.. ( Proteus was sent to hunt due to his fighting and behaviuor i was sick to death of his "attitude") it was either that or was old on and i really didnt fancy that one knowing his bad temper would see him shot...if thats "farming on".. so be it.

 

It is a shame that theres not enough Plummers working fox but then theres not alot of plummers anyway..compared to the rest. but im no big belive in only "worker to worker".. romantic drivel..

 

Vandal to his own daughter and "all the progeny from that mating were outstanding in the ground and as good a terriers as I have seen on fox.

..mmmmm well done !

 

 

You mentioned you "I actually had one myself" I presume this was red as my records say you only had red born 96 ..or did you re-invest?

 

 

Lol Glenn you love all this don't you.

Yes the dog that you mentioned was Red,why?

 

Do you remember ring up about 2.30 one afternoon all excited because you had bolted a fox twice.When I asked which terrier had bolted it you said I don't know as ther were 5 or 6 in there.Good standard.

Also a mutual friend was with you at the time when you released a cagetrapped mink in front of I believe seven of your working terriers and it got away another good standard.

 

Lol good luck with your terriers mate and it was nice speaking to you again atb.

[WILF 44,329]

 

i do like where their going with the line tho, no club rules or polictical nonsense. just good hard working plummers, for work not for show or ££££££.

 

MOO told me they may make some available to vetted lads at £100 each....I would get in quick and pm him boys

[poacher3161 1,766]

whats a dd

Not a dandy dinmont is it.

[wippydoo 12]

by the way i dont think id be a manpanzee maybe a womanpanzee though

 

Is that you dragging your poor man by the hair in your avatar?

 

no i drag him by other appendages

[EPTR 4]

I consider Curtis a friend and if he says that Mask is out of Maggot then ill go with that,rumours are rife in the dog world and with such a mix of terriers in those earlier plummers who knows what could crop up when inbred.Maybe something further back wasnt bred as it was supposed to be.Anyway,im not a plummer breeder and nothing ive owned or bred from or anything ill have in the future will affect todays plummers in anyway so its irrelevant really.

 

Thinking about it further Mask cant be out of Quest because Quest had a litter from Mask and Curtis wouldnt have done that lining of Son/Mother ,so i think the rough coats are either some weird gene or something else isnt bred as said.

Well like i said i may be wrong but he was known to be a little untruthfull. hnece our friondship dies raopid when plujmmer grassed him up to me.

 

By the way he did many linebreedings to son mother extra.Infact I owned one a double rocky bred bitch ,called ruby from summerbird .

[EPTR 4]

Glenn if you read back through you will see that I have asked two questions and both seem to have been ignored...?

One was are you saying that Vandal wasn't a Plummer?

And the other was how many foxes have YOU taken in the last season with YOUR terriers?

Thanks

Sorry to have missed this one but not ignored, wondered what bill was on about my sincere apologies, mark.

 

Vandal, was he a Plummer with 28% vampire blood a halfbred jrt.? Plummer.. he and others then for PR purposes was named plummer terriers as were so many but they were not true breeding enough to be called a breed...others bred more true as well...but then when you consider vandals pedigree, how could they have been when the fathers sire was crossbred and the rest of the pedigree mongrelized. Offspirng from vandal sometimes resembled other breeds a sign of homozygosity . AS DID MANY ..AS I SADI BEFORE THEY WERE INGREDIENTS ...Brian himself bred variables by the dozen due to homozygosity I had one .

 

Name me any of Brians dogs ever that have no other breed blood in them for more than 4 generations ..you will find none.

 

His famous vampire halfbred 50% jrt minimum

Omega 37% jrt

One of the last dogs he bred nailer over 28% jrt numerous jrt and fells in just 4 generations .

 

 

As for Fox work none no need foxes dont take my fish.the water must be to cold for them,or snorkels interfere with there senses lol.

 

Would be nice to have some local foxes to play with but to tell you the truth they aren't numerous enough here due to keepers and digging foxes and taken piccys of the reults is a sad macho thing i grew out of.

 

If i encounter one then great (prefer hunting the rat and used to love mink hunting with my pack but thats illegal now !! :sick: )but seeking out earths on a wet sunday morning digging great big holes in the ground to see me terrier working a fox not really my scene anymore as i said before bin there done that in my youth. Prefer others who work there dogs to prove my lines instincts.

 

 

There's no art to fox work had terriers at hunt service and with loners who give me feed back..and as stated before have had a recent report my x stud now a pet lost to ground on foxy loxy. Infact his son tylos was to ground for 2 hours at a fox. The lad dug him out and gave the fox best. Good enough for me the dog though bred from many none earth dogs did what he thought was right...nearly cost the lad his dog mind but thats a different story. And in true irish fashion promtly lined his patterdale with him !!

 

 

Theres no art to fox work,a bold statement indeed.By saying that it shows that you have never done it to any standard.Glenn the fox is the only legal quarry that you can truly test your offspring on.You say that you have been there and done that now grown out of it.Several years back you said to me that you hadn't really done any earthwork as you couldn't find foxes around your way,which also says a lot for you as a working terrierman.

Everyone has different standards.As I said in an earlier post some say their dogs work and only take two or three a season,and others may take a hundred.I have seen many terriers look good for a few digs then when the workload gets a bit heavier throw the towel in.I have seen many terriers put out to a hunt and never get worked properly.A lot of people seem to think that hunt work is the ultimate thing, but I can honestly say that some of the worst standards of terrierwork that I have ever witnessed were hunt terriermen.

Glenn I really fail to see why anyone would farm a dog out to give it work.I would want to enter the young dogs myself, to make sure that it was done what I would call properly and I would want to witness them at their work so that I could judge them for myself and not take other peoples words for it as I have said we all have different ideas.

How do you know the stud was lost to ground on a fox?Did they get the fox out?

The other lad you say he dug the fox and give it best?Did he or couldn't he get the fox with the dog?If you were working them yourself you would know these things firsthand.

There seems to be an awful lot of Plummers lost and assumed lost whilst heroically working a fox,(Proteous) being one.You say Tylos was 2 hours to ground on a fox good enough for me.So are you rating the dog as good enough for you as in to breed from?After 2 hours on a fox,he could have been stuck or blocked himself in.As I have said many look good even for a season then quit.It is a shame that the Plummers are no longer being properly tested as there were and probably are still some that are very good foxdogs.I actually had one myself.I have also dug many times to some of Vandals offspring and still do on occassions.Some of the best earthworking Plummers came from Bills kennels. I just wish that he was still producing his stuff.A mate of mine had a daughter of Vandal and mated her back to her sire and all the progeny from that mating were outstanding in the ground and as good a terriers as I have seen on fox.

Mark.

 

 

Where do i start

 

I wont start with lines like this.... "By saying that it shows that you have never done it to any standard." so my fox working standards arent the same as yours... whatever standard theres is!

 

My fox working days were in my teens and in my twenties.I have worked terriers and mongrols to foxes and fells and russels and plummers to have enough knowledge to say that theres no art to it..my opinion yours may differ as many do on here.

 

I certainly am not going into the "ive had more foxes than you rubbish" as most cant prove it anyway.

 

So ..you say..

 

"Glenn I really fail to see why anyone would farm a dog out to give it work.I would want to enter the young dogs myself, to make sure that it was done what I would call properly and I would want to witness them at their work so that I could judge them for myself and not take other peoples words for it as I have said we all have different ideas.

How do you know the stud was lost to ground on a fox?Did they get the fox out?

The other lad you say he dug the fox and give it best?Did he or couldn't he get the fox with the dog?If you were working them yourself you would know these things firsthand."

 

I should have said... that i had "GIVEN" the above dogs away. After i do when i have finished with them.

 

One dog was "farmed away " jazz to be proven and he did just that!.

 

But in an ideal world then yes i would love to be able to pop out and have a quick play with foxy..but then life is not always so easy...however that deos'nt bother me so much as it seems to bother "real teriermen on here"

 

Tylos and his sire Ransum both were given away these are the dogs i refered too sorry if it came across that they were "farmed out" to prove themselves with someone else ..for me ..if they work well for the new owner then fine .

 

But if i had a friend relialble and close by to work my terriers to fox for me then bingo letem get on with digging great holes...

 

 

Any fox work is an advatage to any terrier of mine when they leave here they usualy do well and i have good reports back...some mink hunting only dogs like tylos go on and entertain their new owners with varied sport.

 

Your assumptions on Tylos little 2 hour stint are just that assumptions in the negative...but then i expected this would be the case.

 

Proteus (bred by plummer) was dug by me many times before he went to wales to hunt service were he didnt last long as he was the hardest plummer terrier ive ever seen work fox or seen take a pain.Price witnessed this in wales after he stayed when rocky and 6 other of prices best terrier did'nt ..infact rocky didnt find at all.If i recall and we dog 8 feet thro clay before proteus herd us and bolted the fox which was duely missed by prices shotgun.. ( Proteus was sent to hunt due to his fighting and behaviuor i was sick to death of his "attitude") it was either that or was old on and i really didnt fancy that one knowing his bad temper would see him shot...if thats "farming on".. so be it.

 

It is a shame that theres not enough Plummers working fox but then theres not alot of plummers anyway..compared to the rest. but im no big belive in only "worker to worker".. romantic drivel..

 

Vandal to his own daughter and "all the progeny from that mating were outstanding in the ground and as good a terriers as I have seen on fox.

..mmmmm well done !

 

 

You mentioned you "I actually had one myself" I presume this was red as my records say you only had red born 96 ..or did you re-invest?

 

 

Lol Glenn you love all this don't you.

Yes the dog that you mentioned was Red,why?

 

Do you remember ring up about 2.30 one afternoon all excited because you had bolted a fox twice.When I asked which terrier had bolted it you said I don't know as ther were 5 or 6 in there.Good standard.

Also a mutual friend was with you at the time when you released a cagetrapped mink in front of I believe seven of your working terriers and it got away another good standard.

 

Lol good luck with your terriers mate and it was nice speaking to you again atb.

 

 

Well red as you say being a good worker from none working foxing plummers ben a the triclour sister to nailer both out of anone working at all dam!..not that it matters at all but proves that worker to worker means nowt.

 

You must have good memeory mate abck to 1993 lol but as my pack was always run as a pack and whatever came up or went to ground was fair game once apon a time. I remember loosing ttwo terriers in a pile of lamposts and had to wait for 6 hours before they returned bolted a few foxes from that pile and lost cain .Who turned up a week later after being picked up by a doo..gooder. this palce was were i lost shona as well, a rocky firebird bitch ..to ground at fox ! Methane.

[EPTR 4]

whats a dd

dd is a double dilution gene makes them pale nsoed ..no black but turns tans choclaote and then liver and then fawn.as you dilute.

[fireman 10,774]

moorman,quality work standard from you and your terriers there glen and it's best you do leave those earths alone these days .