Plummer terriers

[wirral countryman 2,110]

GLEN,you are as slippery as an eel or labour politician,you write a lot but not with anything like an answer or constructive argument,i asked for 1 honest answer," who  has bred the most worker's? "<BR>Are you incapable of an honest answer? it doesn't hurt to recognise other peoples part in the breeding and way forward to a better working terrier,it does not demean your own part by recognising other's helped along the way ,your knowledge of the breed and genetics is second to none and is recognised by various associations,clubs,etc by your position within them but a little humility now and again wouldn't go amiss.I do not hide behind my avatar as suggested by yourself and I am well known on the wirral having had working dogs all my life,shooting,hawks,lamping,etc in fact all aspects of country life in general,I keep my circle of friends small and do not boast or post picture's of any of my dog's,livestock,etc.I only keep 100% working animals as rubbish eats the same amount as good ones,I do take criticism for this by some but when limited by space you can only keep the best,fox was my main quarry for 30yrs or so and kept a full range of terrier's and lurcher's to cope with it,so you see nothing to hide,ask me a question and I answer it,lets have a bit of honesty from you for a change?I like the plummer as a breed but can't find 1 breeder that works 12",12lb strain,if you know of one pm me with a name or number, but if you don't know of any then as a working strain its dead in the water,wirralman

Edited June 26, 2010 by wirral countryman

[fielder 18]

nice pics millet.

id imagine the plummers ive had are very similar bred to what millet calls old strain.i lost a good bitch in february in a drain after she hunted a scent across a field.i tried calling her back but i guess you cant stop a terrier from wanting to find a fox.she was well marked up when we dug her body out.a tragic accident and i wish i could find a bitch like her again.

she did breed a bitch which weve used for the last three years.this bitch is the one eyed rough coated thing which some may have seen on the edrd site.this bitch died two weeks ago after working a fox.

all i have now are crossbred plummer/nuttalls and im very happy with them.i personally dont see why plummers are being called old and new type or strains etc.i think if people had visited the kennels of the dogs which produced the old stuff they would realize they were just crossbred/mongrels.

the plummer types ive had have worked well for me but i dought would have coped with regular fox work.ive never done enough to find out.im unsure if plummers bred today will be as good as what was around ten years ago but there never has been a pure plummer terrier.they are a blend of russell and fell.

they are mongrels :11:

 

Surely if they breed true to type then they are a breed and not just mongrels? Dont virtually all breeds come into being from a blend of existing dogs?

[stainlee 27]

I m an impartial onlooker, and I reckon EPTR is kicking ass,you lads need to raise your game.

[fireman 10,794]

Recon you need to raise your game if that wind up is the best you can do ,i'd stick to jacking or summer hare hunting seems your better at that oh stained by the past .

[wirral countryman 2,110]

I m an impartial onlooker, and I reckon EPTR is kicking ass,you lads need to raise your game.

 

 

stainlee,you need to actually answer the questions put honestly to kick ass,you would do better if you removed your nose from glen's bottom and took part in a (supposed) working terrier debate,I have'nt seen a post yet thats been put up by glen thats fitting of a man in his responsible position for a breeds future if its not to be reduced to a show pony,ridiculing people with personal insults is not answering questions in any ones book,there's only one way forward imo and that's to get lots of pups into working homes as well to gain some respect off seasoned terriermen,that way you find the true measure of the breed,wirralman

Edited June 27, 2010 by wirral countryman

[stainlee 27]

WCM..Idon,t know Glen, I was messing with you..but your right I,ll keep my nose out .....sorry Fireman..explanation please re jacking,summer hare hunting.

[EPTR 4]

GLEN,you are as slippery as an eel or labour politician,you write a lot but not with anything like an answer or constructive argument,i asked for 1 honest answer," who  has bred the most worker's? "<BR>Are you incapable of an honest answer? it doesn't hurt to recognise other peoples part in the breeding and way forward to a better working terrier,it does not demean your own part by recognising other's helped along the way ,your knowledge of the breed and genetics is second to none and is recognised by various associations,clubs,etc by your position within them but a little humility now and again wouldn't go amiss.I do not hide behind my avatar as suggested by yourself and I am well known on the wirral having had working dogs all my life,shooting,hawks,lamping,etc in fact all aspects of country life in general,I keep my circle of friends small and do not boast or post picture's of any of my dog's,livestock,etc.I only keep 100% working animals as rubbish eats the same amount as good ones,I do take criticism for this by some but when limited by space you can only keep the best,fox was my main quarry for 30yrs or so and kept a full range of terrier's and lurcher's to cope with it,so you see nothing to hide,ask me a question and I answer it,lets have a bit of honesty from you for a change?I like the plummer as a breed but can't find 1 breeder that works 12",12lb strain,if you know of one pm me with a name or number, but if you don't know of any then as a working strain its dead in the water,wirralman

 

Your not alone hiding..on here ..many do I choose not to as ive nowt to hide!

 

 

As for answering your daft question and showing recogntion as i said credit where its due..as for "whos bred the most working terriers between myself and plummer"...plummer owned and bred f1 and f2s no more than 5 generations in any pedigree before we see other breeds ..were they a breed back then? ..certainly not ...working terriers who knows at a guess id say Brian for shear average through massive numbers ...But they weren't a breed.IMO

 

So did he own plummer terriers as a breed?..or did he start a breed developing ?

 

Fact is I have spoken to many who new plummer who never saw him dig a fox I never saw him work any Plummers in all the the time I knew him. WHY BECASUE HE DIDNT OWN ANY!

 

Many say the same.

 

Its a sure thing he had working dogs as i do its all so a sure thing he bred and sold working dogs. but worked them ...I doubt it now...alot!

 

In the years i knew him I certainly worked my terriers harder then he if we are talking all round work ie earth work and top work.

 

I spent an afternoon with alan thomas who features in the videos lone furrow etc and he enlightened me alot! ...lets say alot of the footage for the camera and the photos for the pics were thanks to alan and others.!.He was a copper too

 

I wouldn't turn to Brian for advise on working a terrier now as i knew as much before I met as i do now.its child play!

 

I don't agree with his ideas of breeding plans either..they have proven wrong and in sometimes more than useless..and down right cruel.

 

His knowledge of his own stock in his peak was second to none ..as all breeders should be but after the formation of the club he simply lost interest and eventually had no idea at all.

 

His advise was les than useful to be kind ( but he insisted on giving it whether i wanted it or not) ..hence i sort my own via the Internet and books wrote by professionals with plenty of experience in the issues i needed to sort.

[wirral countryman 2,110]

GLEN,thank you for answering my question,but I actually meant any breeder not just yourself or plummer,I agree with a lot you have said about plummer,you must remember he did suffer terrible bouts of depression and illness,I think we would all lose some focus with all things considered,I only met him at a mates farm just outside kirby and only really knew him through the coursing side of things,he wrote down a lot of stories that were later put in his books,some of his early plummer ( mouse ) headed crosses were bred through some tiny dogs that were worked locally at the time,but he was alway's generous with his litter wastage and stud dogs of the time,I never heard of him digging with the lads I knew,but he did go coursing quite regular with them untill they fell out,which was quite easy due to his fixated opinions,his own friends told me if he killed 30 rats on his nightly lamping hunts then a zero was added to make it 300,he was prone to exageration and poetic license as these made good stories for his books,I've got to say we all thought he was a crank but he wrote some decent books,when your young I think your easilly impressed by stories its not untill we look back that we realise how gullible we were,I'm sure you were probably the same by the sound of it.I would like to know if anybody to your knowledge owns and breeds 12" 12lb easilly spannable plummer's that work if poss,as the main man it seems if you don't know no-one will?I only joined this website to source a small plummer bitch and it has been an almost impossible task,if I had wanted a nuttall or lakie I could of got one easilly from proven dogs,this must tell you the breed is in trouble,I think this is why you take so much criticism because people like myself and other's on this website know what the breed could be as a worker not a show pony,I have started to look for a russell of this description now as I am losing faith in ever finding anything,I bred a line of good working russell's for 25yrs that saw huntwork but lost all this blood when the hunt kennell's were robbed by gypsies and my last bitch was run over and flattened,so you see at 52yrs of age I find myself trying to get a line of some sort together again,if you have knowledge of a bitch then pm me if not then I shall breed some f1's with my own dog,atb,wirralman

[EPTR 4]

GLEN,thank you for answering my question,but I actually meant any breeder not just yourself or plummer,I agree with a lot you have said about plummer,you must remember he did suffer terrible bouts of depression and illness,I think we would all lose some focus with all things considered,I only met him at a mates farm just outside kirby and only really knew him through the coursing side of things,he wrote down a lot of stories that were later put in his books,some of his early plummer ( mouse ) headed crosses were bred through some tiny dogs that were worked locally at the time,but he was alway's generous with his litter wastage and stud dogs of the time,I never heard of him digging with the lads I knew,but he did go coursing quite regular with them untill they fell out,which was quite easy due to his fixated opinions,his own friends told me if he killed 30 rats on his nightly lamping hunts then a zero was added to make it 300,he was prone to exageration and poetic license as these made good stories for his books,I've got to say we all thought he was a crank but he wrote some decent books,when your young I think your easilly impressed by stories its not untill we look back that we realise how gullible we were,I'm sure you were probably the same by the sound of it.I would like to know if anybody to your knowledge owns and breeds 12" 12lb easilly spannable plummer's that work if poss,as the main man it seems if you don't know no-one will?I only joined this website to source a small plummer bitch and it has been an almost impossible task,if I had wanted a nuttall or lakie I could of got one easilly from proven dogs,this must tell you the breed is in trouble,I think this is why you take so much criticism because people like myself and other's on this website know what the breed could be as a worker not a show pony,I have started to look for a russell of this description now as I am losing faith in ever finding anything,I bred a line of good working russell's for 25yrs that saw huntwork but lost all this blood when the hunt kennell's were robbed by gypsies and my last bitch was run over and flattened,so you see at 52yrs of age I find myself trying to get a line of some sort together again,if you have knowledge of a bitch then pm me if not then I shall breed some f1's with my own dog,atb,wirralman

 

 

Depression ..id say not.. as i new him for 2o years and found him always chirpy on the phone (sometimes three times aday) and in person ..he was as about depressd as any man can get..who can't cope with others views. Manic nope or very well hidden.

 

His lurchers merab and pheadra i hunted with and have vidoes they were good but then were they were if they couldnt self enter and do well in caithness then it was a poor do. My own lurcher was equal if not better as it was true allrounder were DBPS inbreds were fox shy!

 

Many times we ferrtetd and took 30 or 40 and missed hundreds. But then there were thousands of warrens to go at.

 

 

Terriers 12inch and 12 lb nope 12inch yes i own 2 and will not be parting with them.

 

Besides which they are show ponies ..good luck for the next 25years ..(lost in one go mmm )

[wirral countryman 2,110]

GLEN,GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR SHOW PONIES,the history of all terrier breeds has been ruined by wannabee's like yourself,each time a good working breed has been lost its been to egotistical idiots with no genuine care for the future,you seem to have no direction as regards plummer himself,one minute ridiculing him then the next you talk as you were his best friend,I can see why most people find you hard work to deal with,I hope the breed is recognised as a worker at some point and wish you luck with the kc registered WELSBY terrier but in my eye's and everyone else's it will always be a plummer,going by the generous offer's on my pm's there are 4 plummer bitches to put my dog to which I shall take,a working line will always be needed to run alongside SHOW PONIES,a lot of lads still wish to work the real thing not large soft coated imitations of the genuine working plummer,atb,wirralman

[EPTR 4]

LOl yes brian was a friend who distanced himself when his ideas were questioned, not only be myself but many others who basically saw through his thin veneer.cant say i was disappointed or missed the lectures on how do dodge the critics like thee.

 

No direction.. Lol what after 20 years of producing workers with up teen generations under the kennels belt...whatever ..whirly man.

 

Welsby terrier ..never heard that before doh !

 

It seems that considering your mature age you seem you lack the knowledge to keep a line going .gypsies lolpull the other one .. by the time you have anything breeding true and working to your exceptional high standards then the Plummer will be recognised and you will be seeking your next out cross f1 due to another gypsy raid.

[fireman 10,794]

Allways going on about upteen generations in 20 years,how many exactly glen?.

[stormyboy 1,352]

You are looking in the wrong place wirralman. I'll be able to put you on to the right working blood soon i think.

No bullshit-just proven grafters.

[jack crowley 5]

eptr i was right about you.you are a prick mocking a falla that was robbed how low will you go ya wanker :censored: :censored:

[wirral countryman 2,110]

GLEN,lots of your people you have sold pups to are the one's asking me to get their dogs working to ground for them as it seems you can't,as regards mocking a man that loses 25yrs of breeding truely show's the kind of man you really are,I wouldn't wish it upon anyone,not even you,the gypsies that raided the cheshire hunt kennell's took every terrier there at the time including mine,I did not get the chance to breed off my last and only bitch as she was run over before I got the chance,it wasn't about breeding hundreds of russell terrier's or money,just seeing good dogs grafting in the time honoured way,I would think your dogs will be safe though as they only seem to take good working dogs,how many of your dogs have seen proper hunt service?it takes a good dog to bolt a fox run to ground by hounds with a waiting field sat in judgement,my bitches never let me down,I'll bet you can't say the same of your show ponies,don't bother answering this post as I fully intend to ignore your idiotic ravings from now on as they don't make any sense to me or most on this site,wirralman