New football thread

[chartpolski 20,494]

7 hours ago, THE STIFFMEISTER said:

What would palmer hope to achieve at Newcastle ? 

I would say Newcastle have had an awful season to be honest as they should be well clear of their peers . 

same points , wins and losses as Man Utd who according to all media are appalling ? 

 Utd still have to play arsenal , but there’s a massive game for them both in a head to head , Chelsea also still have two games in hand , they have a hard run in mind with arsenal villa and spurs . 

Newcastle could finish below them both still. 

I’ve said it before , Newcastle will always  struggle to attract big name stars due to the location . It’s just not where players imagine being 
 

 

I think it needs to be taken in context, mate.
Until recently Man U have been almost certainties to be in the top four, whereas until fairly recently Newcastle have been relegated twice and perennial struggler’s.

So a top six finish for Newcastle will be considered progress for Newcastle , but a finish outside the top four for Man U will be considered failure.

Its going to be very close between Man U , Newcastle, West Ham, (who have played one game more)and Chelsea , (who have played one game less).

Newcastle have a far better goal difference than the others and appear, on paper at least, to have the “easier” run in.

I’ll consider it great progress if Newcastle finish in the top six, I never expected to equal or better last season’s fourth place finish this season.

As for players not wanting to come to Newcastle, I think they will go anywhere if the moneys right, just look at those who went to Saudi !

Anyhow, I’m enjoying a season where we are challenging, rather than struggling !

Cheers.

 

 

[WILF 44,365]

For me, Newcastle have been good value for no other reason than seeing a young English coach do pretty well whilst trying to play nice, proper, front foot football.

Stuff like that I like. 

[gnasher16 29,673]

20 hours ago, WILF said:

They didn’t show it, they had Liverpool on instead mate so I wouldn’t know.

But 2-0 will make for an exciting night……unless they tear us to pieces !  

You just know we'll set up cautiously to still be in the tie with 15 minutes to go.........my bet is we'll concede a first half goal and that plan will go to shit......much as i admire what Moyse has achieved,he certainly doesnt have a plan b and thats where we'll come undone tomorrow i reckon.

[WILF 44,365]

City getting knocked out !…..couldn’t happen to a nicer club ! Lol

And Arsenal going full spurs ! Amazing !

[chartpolski 20,494]

Does this mean we won’t get the 5th CL place ?

Cheers.

[WILF 44,365]

Could only catch the end on the radio and it sounds like we had a proper go last night and some bad refereeing didn’t help matters.

Cant do more than have a good go, that’s all any supporter asks for…..at least mental ones like me ! Lol 

Credit where credit is due, I loathe Moyes but it sounds like he let the players try and win it so fair play to him.

id like to think that’s his lot at the end of the season because I think there are better coaches with better ideas who could get that team playing better football but I say that with no bitterness, he could leave with his head held high. 

[gnasher16 29,673]

The tie was lost in the first leg i thought we did ok last night and gave it a go....with our best player out and a referee who with 2 sendings off and 10 bookings either enjoys being a referee a little bit too much or had totally lost control of the game it was too much of an uphill task....saying that though as peculiar as the ref was the better team went through i thought Alonso just stepped it up at half time and Leverkusen just reigned us back in they are probably the best side in Europe at the moment so no disgrace.

Regards Moyes i do think he'll be gone at the end of the season and while im glad in some ways theres still part of me thinks its a " be careful what you wish for " type of thing....but personally id thank the man and shake his hand on his way out for giving me and my pals a few years like we've never had before.

Edited April 19 by gnasher16

[WILF 44,365]

6 minutes ago, gnasher16 said:

The tie was lost in the first leg i thought we did ok last night and gave it a go....with our best player out and a referee who with 2 sendings off and 10 bookings either enjoys being a referee a little bit too much or had totally lost control of the game it was too much of an uphill task....saying that though as peculiar as the ref was the better team went through i thought Alonso just stepped it up at half time and Leverjusen just reigned us back in they are probably the best side in Europe at the moment so no disgrace.

Regards Moyes i do think he'll be gone at the end of the season and while im glad in some ways theres still part of me thinks its a " be careful what you wish for " type of thing....but personally id thank the man and shake his hand on his way out for giving me and my pals a few years like we've never had before.

Good post mate, and I think as far as Moyes is concerned that’s exactly the right way to look at it……when all is said and done, it’s just about going to your football.

I was looking yesterday and maybe I’m well behind on something everyone already knows but Slaven Billic assistant manager when he was with us is the head coach of Borrusia Dortmund !

Edin Tzercik or something like that, I would personally love to see a young coach like that or Pep Linjers or if there is another English Eddie Howe type kicking around have a go and see what he could do with a pretty decent starting 11, I know we lack depth but the bones are there now imho. 

Edited April 19 by WILF

[gnasher16 29,673]

1 hour ago, WILF said:

Good post mate, and I think as far as Moyes is concerned that’s exactly the right way to look at it……when all is said and done, it’s just about going to your football.

I was looking yesterday and maybe I’m well behind on something everyone already knows but Slaven Billic assistant manager when he was with us is the head coach of Borrusia Dortmund !

Edin Tzercik or something like that, I would personally love to see a young coach like that or Pep Linjers or if there is another English Eddie Howe type kicking around have a go and see what he could do with a pretty decent starting 11, I know we lack depth but the bones are there now imho. 

I dont know enough about foreign coaches mate so not familiar with the names you mention but my worry with a " flair type " coach for want of a better description,is that we just dont have a big enough squad.....some of our fans despise him but im ok with Sullivan but i do think he moves at the wrong times transfer wise,he lets windows go when we should buy and buys when we dont need to.......its like the old West Ham saying " we come down with the Xmas decorations " our good start is usually over by January and for me a lot of that has been about Sullivans timing....only my opinion of course.

My tactical nouse isnt up to much but i do watch football and see how patterns seem to work and the defensively solid Moyse type sides do tend to have a smaller squad of a set regular starting eleven as opposed to the " flair types " who have big squads constantly rotating for whatever the next game requires.....top sides have 2 of every position reasonably close ability wise we still have the old fashioned first choice and second choice....obviously that doesnt mean to say we cant get to that but it would take time....time that could see us become a regular mid/lower league possibly even relegation fighting side again and we just cant go back to that now.....much as some dont like him Moyse has set a standard now and its not going to be easy maintaining it.

Edited April 19 by gnasher16

[WILF 44,365]

11 minutes ago, gnasher16 said:

I dont know enough about foreign coaches mate so not familiar with the names you mention but my worry with a " flair type " coach for want of a better description,is that we just dont have a big enough squad.....some of our fans despise him but im ok with Sullivan but i do think he moves at the wrong times transfer wise,he lets windows go when we should buy and buys when we dont need to.......its like the old West Ham saying " we come down with the Xmas decorations " our good start is usually over by January and for me a lot of that has been about Sullivans timing....only my opinion of course.

My tactical nouse isnt up to much but i do watch football and see how patterns seem to work and the defensively solid Moyse type sides do tend to have a smaller squad of a set regular starting eleven as opposed to the " flair types " who have big squads constantly rotating for whatever the next game requires.....top sides have 2 of every position reasonably close ability wise we still have the old fashioned first choice and second choice....obviously that doesnt mean to say we cant get to that but it would take time....time that could see us become a regular mid/lower league possibly even relegation fighting side again and we just cant go back to that now.....much as some dont like him Moyse has set a standard now and its not going to be easy maintaining it.

Yep, nice sensible way of looking at it and I understand that when all is said and done, football is all just opinions wether you are Pele or Pete from the pub……they are all relevant if they ain’t just fantasy nonsense.

You are obviously more familiar with the situation on the ground so I may be way off the mark but I have always been a football optimist in as much as I believe you can achieve good stuff and play nice football with just about any group of players, that way of thinking has dictated how I played, how I coached and how I view football.

I understand it’s a bias but I think you have to have a belief of how you like the game and stick to it and that’s mine.

I see enough talent in the squad for the bones of a decent positive front foot side, I think with that Tim Steidan we have a bloke from a culture willing to do deals that would help with that and if we could just add a coach that had the same mindset then we could be that team that people really want to watch with a style fans can really get behind……a “West Ham way” again ?

I don’t worry about results if I can see a direction, I have always thought that playing good football and doing everything right from back room to on the pitch will eventually reap its own dividends but again, I understand that is just my own belief.

I don’t  think just results on their own are enough, I think it’s a very boring game if we ever get to that…..that is the danger when such financial numbers are involved, you can end up sacrificing the football for the bank balance but to me, the game, the players and the fans have to come first.
I genuinely wouldn’t care much if we won the champions league if we had to do it with 10 men behind the ball playing anti football……I used to religiously watch Italian football in the 90s so I know what locking up at 1-0 looks like and it’s boring.

The game and rules allows teams to be so much more attacking now because that’s what they were designed to do and let’s be honest, who didn’t love the old Brazil mindset of “if you score 2, we will just score 3” ? That is why everyone loved Brazil. 
 

All that said, we will probably end up with some standard name that’s been round the block a million times as a manager and it’s all just business as usual.

I agree about Sullivans recruitment, I think it’s been dodgy and a bit too “bloke down the pub making it up” for my liking…..hopefully that’s where Steidan will earn his money. 

[gnasher16 29,673]

2 hours ago, WILF said:

Yep, nice sensible way of looking at it and I understand that when all is said and done, football is all just opinions wether you are Pele or Pete from the pub……they are all relevant if they ain’t just fantasy nonsense.

You are obviously more familiar with the situation on the ground so I may be way off the mark but I have always been a football optimist in as much as I believe you can achieve good stuff and play nice football with just about any group of players, that way of thinking has dictated how I played, how I coached and how I view football.

I understand it’s a bias but I think you have to have a belief of how you like the game and stick to it and that’s mine.

I see enough talent in the squad for the bones of a decent positive front foot side, I think with that Tim Steidan we have a bloke from a culture willing to do deals that would help with that and if we could just add a coach that had the same mindset then we could be that team that people really want to watch with a style fans can really get behind……a “West Ham way” again ?

I don’t worry about results if I can see a direction, I have always thought that playing good football and doing everything right from back room to on the pitch will eventually reap its own dividends but again, I understand that is just my own belief.

I don’t  think just results on their own are enough, I think it’s a very boring game if we ever get to that…..that is the danger when such financial numbers are involved, you can end up sacrificing the football for the bank balance but to me, the game, the players and the fans have to come first.
I genuinely wouldn’t care much if we won the champions league if we had to do it with 10 men behind the ball playing anti football……I used to religiously watch Italian football in the 90s so I know what locking up at 1-0 looks like and it’s boring.

The game and rules allows teams to be so much more attacking now because that’s what they were designed to do and let’s be honest, who didn’t love the old Brazil mindset of “if you score 2, we will just score 3” ? That is why everyone loved Brazil. 
 

All that said, we will probably end up with some standard name that’s been round the block a million times as a manager and it’s all just business as usual.

I agree about Sullivans recruitment, I think it’s been dodgy and a bit too “bloke down the pub making it up” for my liking…..hopefully that’s where Steidan will earn his money. 

Much as i agree that Steidan has been good news for the club in general i dont think in the long run he'll make lads like you happy mate.....and by lads like you i mean lads with an " ideal "

For me the reason it always comes back to the move ( promise i wont go on about it  ) is that we gave up any " ideals " we had about the game of football from an identity point of view,traditions call it what you like......thats not to say we can never play attractive football again it just means our priorities went in a different direction.....a bloke like Steidan has no affiliation to the club we was,infact he doesnt give a monkeys for it and why should he.

Where we are now as a club is one that is genuinely competing.....to now go back and make attractive football a priority just isnt going to happen and i know what you're getting at with a " why cant we do both " kind of attitude but the game has changed now and for better or worse as a club we've now changed with it.

The way you describing playing the game and how you may have coached the game is based on ideals....yes in an ideal world we'd all play and coach like that but it doesnt work at the highest level of sport and the analogy i'll give is one im more familiar with and thats boxing.....in an ideal world every heavyweight would box like Muhammad Ali but Muhammad Ali in todays times of giant heavyweights just couldnt be sucessful.....and yes its wrong,maybe a little bit sentimentally sad....but its the harsh facts of modern top level sport that the right way isnt necessarily the best way.

Kudus isnt as good as Debruyne......nowhere near......so matching player for player like for like all over the pitch will see us getting mullered against better players......where i do agree with you is that playing an " ideal " way against players not as good as our own and getting results should be very achievable and thats where Moyse in my opinion never had a plan B as such......my " ideal " if you like would be playing John Lyall football against Burnley and Luton then playing Moyse football against City and Arsenal........wanna compromise ?  

Edited April 19 by gnasher16

[WILF 44,365]

1 hour ago, gnasher16 said:

Much as i agree that Steidan has been good news for the club in general i dont think in the long run he'll make lads like you happy mate.....and by lads like you i mean lads with an " ideal "

For me the reason it always comes back to the move ( promise i wont go on about it  ) is that we gave up any " ideals " we had about the game of football from an identity point of view,traditions call it what you like......thats not to say we can never play attractive football again it just means our priorities went in a different direction.....a bloke like Steidan has no affiliation to the club we was,infact he doesnt give a monkeys for it and why should he.

Where we are now as a club is one that is genuinely competing.....to now go back and make attractive football a priority just isnt going to happen and i know what you're getting at with a " why cant we do both " kind of attitude but the game has changed now and for better or worse as a club we've now changed with it.

The way you describing playing the game and how you may have coached the game is based on ideals....yes in an ideal world we'd all play and coach like that but it doesnt work at the highest level of sport and the analogy i'll give is one im more familiar with and thats boxing.....in an ideal world every heavyweight would box like Muhammad Ali but Muhammad Ali in todays times of giant heavyweights just couldnt be sucessful.....and yes its wrong,maybe a little bit sentimentally sad....but its the harsh facts of modern top level sport that the right way isnt necessarily the best way.

Kudus isnt as good as Debruyne......nowhere near......so matching player for player like for like all over the pitch will see us getting mullered against better players......where i do agree with you is that playing an " ideal " way against players not as good as our own and getting results should be very achievable and thats where Moyse in my opinion never had a plan B as such......my " ideal " if you like would be playing John Lyall football against Burnley and Luton then playing Moyse football against City and Arsenal........wanna compromise ?  

I get all that chief, obviously I don’t agree with you about “Lads like me” ( I think that’s the first time you’ve mentioned it to be fair ? ) but tomatoe / tomayto mate, you know the score. 
 

Im not saying you don’t have to adjust your game against certain teams but you have to have a reference point of how you like the game  in my humble opinion and then everything is just an adjustment to that central point…….that’s why I’m not coaching top level football ! Lol But f**k it, it’s what I believe and I’d argue it with Johan Cruyff and still think I was right ! Lol 

Edited April 19 by WILF

[eastcoast 3,731]

On 18/04/2024 at 11:43, chartpolski said:

Does this mean we won’t get the 5th CL place ?

Cheers.

If Man City win the FA cup then we will be playing in Europe in some shape or form next season, if we achieve the position in the league, which we will. 

[pesky1972 4,931]

Leeds v Man U FA cup semi final 1970. Billy Bremner apparently lighting up a tab at half time. How the game has changed. 

[WILF 44,365]

Only 4 more games to go before we never have to look at Moyes “football” again ! 

Thank you Palace, you may just have sealed the deal !