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56 minutes ago, keepdiggin said:

Chinaman was a man  biter 

A lot were. Homer, zebo, alligator, Chinaman etc etc. Pretty certain gnasher will also tell you that a good few of the alligator dogs that came over and were bred here were the same. It's a bit of a myth this "zero tolerance" of man biters by dog men. We're talking highly strung, well bred sporting dogs, if they Excel at their chosen sport, well, you'll forgive them for their lack of manners so to speak. The real problems start when these dogs find themselves in non working/,pet homes.

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Nice read that was i couldnt " like " it for some reason....i think the pit bulls were addictive a lot of young lads of our generation had a healthy respect for their physical prowess and that was goo

Dug out this old pic. First A.P.B.T I owned. Got him late 89, early 90..... around 54lb  and standing 22/23in.... Yokel

Most pics of dogs that went through my hands mate ended up with the dead chap spoken about on this topic !....and it wouldnt be right to show other peoples dogs but this is a dog im fairly close to on

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Going back to diet maybe gnasher could talk a bit more about what was a normal diet for a bulldog then how did that diet change when in a keep. I’d expect plenty of raw meat fish veg etc but would be interesting to hear what was fed and benefits behind the diet. Definitely one of the most interesting threads for a long long time

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3 hours ago, JBs Left Peg said:

That might jog some memory’s and story’s for the lads that are interested ?

They are all Staffordshire Bull Terriers,every single one of them..............this is a topic about APBT's.

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22 hours ago, Blackmag said:

Nash how would you train a manny  dog or handle it as certain lines threw them up regular how could you trust or  train something that could turn at any time 

They were few and far between on the whole mate,most of them you could get around with some basic patience and kindness....the black dog i posted a picture of earlier in the thread was an absolute gentleman but the line he was from were notorious for being hard on people he had a littermate who was diabolical the first few weeks i had him he just couldnt be touched by anyone except his owner he would hit the end of his chain and it was clear he wanted to do you.....but put in a pen and sat next to him for hours on end talking to him,touching him through the mesh and generally showing him love and affection over time he came good.

But yes there were a few you could spend months like that and it just wasnt in them to soften so if they were worth the risk through sporting ability or breeding then you just had to do your best....normally as long as there was 2 of you then even a dog who literally couldnt be touched you could still handle him....the popular method was to have another dog handy...so say if you needed to get the dog on the mill you would walk another dog up to him so that he was fully focused on the dog and not on you....that way you could put him on the mill and get your workout done.....by the end of the workout they are usually too knackered to put it on you anyway and you can get your rubdown done etc.....that would apply to pretty much any time you needed to physically touch the dog,its an absolute pain in the arse and you need to be on your toes but some dogs are just worth the risk.

In actual fact i always felt that a dog who wanted to tear your limbs off on a consistent basis was easier and safer to deal with than an unpredictable dog who would be your friend one minute then you'd just sense that turn and thats it you're out of there double lively.

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5 minutes ago, gnasher16 said:

They were few and far between on the whole mate,most of them you could get around with some basic patience and kindness....the black dog i posted a picture of earlier in the thread was an absolute gentleman but the line he was from were notorious for being hard on people he had a littermate who was diabolical the first few weeks i had him he just couldnt be touched by anyone except his owner he would hit the end of his chain and it was clear he wanted to do you.....but put in a pen and sat next to him for hours on end talking to him,touching him through the mesh and generally showing him love and affection over time he came good.

But yes there were a few you could spend months like that and it just wasnt in them to soften so if they were worth the risk through sporting ability or breeding then you just had to do your best....normally as long as there was 2 of you then even a dog who literally couldnt be touched you could still handle him....the popular method was to have another dog handy...so say if you needed to get the dog on the mill you would walk another dog up to him so that he was fully focused on the dog and not on you....that way you could put him on the mill and get your workout done.....by the end of the workout they are usually too knackered to put it on you anyway and you can get your rubdown done etc.....that would apply to pretty much any time you needed to physically touch the dog,its an absolute pain in the arse and you need to be on your toes but some dogs are just worth the risk.

In actual fact i always felt that a dog who wanted to tear your limbs off on a consistent basis was easier and safer to deal with than an unpredictable dog who would be your friend one minute then you'd just sense that turn and thats it you're out of there double lively.

What sort of ££ were involved in the top tier matches mate..

And that last paragraph is spot on..at least you know what you are dealing with and can act accordingly..

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Cheers for that Nash it was just something that I wondered about how you would  handle a dog that wants to have a go at you  I agree about unpredictable dogs having seen the results of  a few incidents one bad one  but I have no knowledge on sporting dogs so thanks for the answer

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These days I wouldn't entertain a manny dog, of any type. 

There may be instances where the dog is top of the tree, but manny, and some could put up with that, that's fair enough if you know and accept what you've got.

Maybe Gnash can comment, but is a manny dog any better than a dog that's man friendly?

I don't know, is a nutter better than a trained professional fighter ?

Ive a sapling deer x on now, she sometimes gets that "mad eye" about her, she's never got manny, but I'm not sure she couldn't in certain circumstances 😂.

Great thread 👍

Cheers.

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4 hours ago, Night Walker said:

Going back to diet maybe gnasher could talk a bit more about what was a normal diet for a bulldog then how did that diet change when in a keep. I’d expect plenty of raw meat fish veg etc but would be interesting to hear what was fed and benefits behind the diet. Definitely one of the most interesting threads for a long long time

Hello mate like i said before my theory was that it wasnt good to keep a bulldog too fit all year round so for the majority of the year a simple maintenance type kibble.....as long as the dog was clean inside and out,healthy etc you didnt want a dog too fit with no match date to aim at....but as soon as you did have a match date the work began and your pre keep started with a change over to raw and the leanest cuts of meat to start off with so lean and organ meats for the protein but protein requires energy for the dog to digest and assimilate/make energy which is where fueling with fats and the burning of fats becomes a cooler process for the dog at that stage.... baby steps with upping the fat content to ensure hydration where the dog falls to a good place for work and chicken as well as red meats work best and are easily assimilated.....a lot of people fed high protein/high carb/low fat but for me the cardio suffers as it takes a lot of heat to assimilate that type of diet....lowering either of the first two and increasing the fat and you have a different dog.....regards veg a lot of people feel it has no nutritional benefit as in the wild it would of already been through the animal being eaten but i did used to feed greens and for me the key to any foliage/roughage is adding something to help break it down there isnt a great deal of nutritional value still but with say some raw beef tripe as a pro biotic the greens then become beneficial.

I could waffle on for hours with my own ideas and theories regarding feeding bulldogs it doesnt make me right and as i keep repeating i really dont think a lot of what i could suggest even applies to anything but bulldogs so please dont think im preaching to anyone about how you should feed dogs....again the folk whos bulldogs i conditioned had records that spoke for themself but ultimately its about the dog and the worst mistake any conditioner can make is to condition the wrong dog.....its important,but it is only grub.

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11 minutes ago, gnasher16 said:

Hello mate like i said before my theory was that it wasnt good to keep a bulldog too fit all year round so for the majority of the year a simple maintenance type kibble.....as long as the dog was clean inside and out,healthy etc you didnt want a dog too fit with no match date to aim at....but as soon as you did have a match date the work began and your pre keep started with a change over to raw and the leanest cuts of meat to start off with so lean and organ meats for the protein but protein requires energy for the dog to digest and assimilate/make energy which is where fueling with fats and the burning of fats becomes a cooler process for the dog at that stage.... baby steps with upping the fat content to ensure hydration where the dog falls to a good place for work and chicken as well as red meats work best and are easily assimilated.....a lot of people fed high protein/high carb/low fat but for me the cardio suffers as it takes a lot of heat to assimilate that type of diet....lowering either of the first two and increasing the fat and you have a different dog.....regards veg a lot of people feel it has no nutritional benefit as in the wild it would of already been through the animal being eaten but i did used to feed greens and for me the key to any foliage/roughage is adding something to help break it down there isnt a great deal of nutritional value still but with say some raw beef tripe as a pro biotic the greens then become beneficial.

I could waffle on for hours with my own ideas and theories regarding feeding bulldogs it doesnt make me right and as i keep repeating i really dont think a lot of what i could suggest even applies to anything but bulldogs so please dont think im preaching to anyone about how you should feed dogs....again the folk whos bulldogs i conditioned had records that spoke for themself but ultimately its about the dog and the worst mistake any conditioner can make is to condition the wrong dog.....its important,but it is only grub.

Interesting that you say "clean inside and out"

The old Greyhound and running dog men said the same, get the dog clean inside first, then start the conditioning of the outside 👍

Cheers.

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51 minutes ago, king said:

What sort of ££ were involved in the top tier matches mate..

And that last paragraph is spot on..at least you know what you are dealing with and can act accordingly..

Even back in the 80's there were plenty of 5 figure bets even between one man band types,the match in Holland between 2 of the best bitches in Europe in around  96/97 was 2 single owners for 50k a side.....obviously where you have a " team/kennels " it will go up to 6 figures all chopped up between them,but you'll usually find the best matches are between your average 2 lads matching for the price of a keep....its a far more honest match between genuine sportsman with a simple love of dogs and the sport.

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58 minutes ago, chartpolski said:

These days I wouldn't entertain a manny dog, of any type. 

There may be instances where the dog is top of the tree, but manny, and some could put up with that, that's fair enough if you know and accept what you've got.

Maybe Gnash can comment, but is a manny dog any better than a dog that's man friendly?

I don't know, is a nutter better than a trained professional fighter ?

Ive a sapling deer x on now, she sometimes gets that "mad eye" about her, she's never got manny, but I'm not sure she couldn't in certain circumstances 😂.

Great thread 👍

Cheers.

In my opinion mate most people aggressive dogs have something missing its just a matter of finding out what it is before you invest time in them....some people believe human aggressive bulldogs to be a sign of being a cur....hence,many of them get ruined before their career is even started by an owner who nearly rolls the life out of the dog just to make sure he's going to be worth the risk !.....so yes.....in my opinion a manny dog who survives his game test is more often than not a special dog.....but only for that reason,nothing to do with fearlessness/aggression/madness or any of that crap.

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53 minutes ago, Blackmag said:

Cheers for that Nash it was just something that I wondered about how you would  handle a dog that wants to have a go at you  I agree about unpredictable dogs having seen the results of  a few incidents one bad one  but I have no knowledge on sporting dogs so thanks for the answer

The theory doesnt always work though ive got more than a few scars to prove it 😆...had to have microsurgery to save the use of my thumb down to a son of this evil orange eyed c**t !!

 

IMG_2850.jpg

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