Jeremy Corbyn aka Adolf Hitler.

[Francie 6,368]

2 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

What crime rate getting worse? Violent, property and total crime has been decreasing in america for nearly the last 30 years!

I guess that must mean there has been a marked increase in bibles in schools then? Ya know, to follow that correlation.... Or perhaps not recorded but actually a black market increase in undocumented bibles in schools! 

Haha well the stats are there for everyone to see, from the sixties an onwards all crime shot up to very high levels, an from 1993 onwards has slowly been decreasing, an i think its been decreasing because folk at school realised that what they were being taught could posdibly be lies, an that being taught your an animal was also bollocks?

Not looking for a argument, just my two pence born.

[WILF 49,606]

31 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

I'm sorry mate, I'm sure that makes sense to you christian folk but to me it's just utter shite. I don't mean that disrespectfully. The bible is open to interpretation for a start and a f**k ton of godly men have committed terribly inhuman acts, sometimes in the name of divinity and sometimes irrespective of it. Every single individual with free will chooses their morals and actions. They can choose to follow a code written out for them or they can choose to follow an unwritten code taught to them from their elders and peers (society) or they can choose to make up whatever code, or lack of, they want. Point is everyone chooses, godly or not, morality is a choice!

Frankly if you really believe in divinity then you believe that judgement of a man is reserved for God only, so why have any laws or courts at all! Just let God sort all the wrong doing out. I'll see your Phil Robertson and raise you T.Jefferson:

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof", thus building a wall of separation between church and State.

 

I would argue that your moral principals come from somewhere, you are not born with them.

You are born to pro create, kill and maime, take what you need to survive whatever it takes and preserve your group.......you are in short born an animal.

The rest you are programmed with.........somebody wrote the programme mate.

jmho 

[Born Hunter 17,907]

 

3 minutes ago, Francie said:

Haha well the stats are there for everyone to see, from the sixties an onwards all crime shot up to very high levels, an from 1993 onwards has slowly been decreasing, an i think its been decreasing because folk at school realised that what they were being taught could posdibly be lies, an that being taught your an animal was also bollocks?

Not looking for a argument, just my two pence born.

You're passing off stats that you haven't provided though and claiming a correlation that as far as I can see is demonstrably wrong. You said there's a correlation between bibles in schools and the crime rate and that bibles have been being taken out of schools. Well the crime rate has dropped in the last near 30 years, so have the number of bibles increased? If not then your correlation is no longer a correlation.

[stumfelter 3,034]

6 minutes ago, WILF said:

I would argue that your moral principals come from somewhere, you are not born with them.

You are born to pro create, kill and maime, take what you need to survive whatever it takes and preserve your group.......you are in short born an animal.

The rest you are programmed with.........somebody wrote the programme mate.

jmho 

Did this somebody also write all the evil people in the world's programmes?

[Born Hunter 17,907]

6 minutes ago, WILF said:

I would argue that your moral principals come from somewhere, you are not born with them.

You are born to pro create, kill and maime, take what you need to survive whatever it takes and preserve your group.......you are in short born an animal.

The rest you are programmed with.........somebody wrote the programme mate.

jmho 

Of course you're right, they have come from somewhere but as a being of free will and reasoned thought I, like every other the same as me, have chosen what morals I think are best. From the day you are born and able experience society we are overwhelmed with experiences and opinions to develop our morality. If you follow the teachings of the bible, it's because you chose to and of course how you interpret and apply those is a matter of free will too.

If our morality is programmed (divinely I presume) and not a matter of free will then surely the individuals religion is irrelevant, the important part is programmed into us all the same? Unless you mean that we're not all programmed with the same morality, where an individuals belief in God shows that they have been programmed 'correctly'? No free will involved? That kinda raises all sorts of problems with the teachings of the bible though, regarding us all being created equal and with free will to chose how to behave before our day of judgement before the almighty.

Bottom line for me, a person pretty f***ing close to an absolute libertarian/classical liberal, everyone should totally have the freedom to judge others however they want, we should be protected from the government doing that though. If the electorate want a godly man, then let electoral pressure guarantee one, the day we ask the law to do that for us is one step closer to tyranny, not salvation.

[Francie 6,368]

21 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

 

You're passing off stats that you haven't provided though and claiming a correlation that as far as I can see is demonstrably wrong. You said there's a correlation between bibles in schools and the crime rate and that bibles have been being taken out of schools. Well the crime rate has dropped in the last near 30 years, so have the number of bibles increased? If not then your correlation is no longer a correlation.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm&ved=2ahUKEwj15_ypuaPaAhUpBMAKHVfkC-oQFjAAegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw0bI-MUjRyLr0Y15vIiYZz7

Here you go born, an yes it is a correlation, bibles were in schools up until the sixtys an crime was relativley low, then the bibles were taken out by the courts, to be replaced by your an animal an anything goes, as theres no set morals cause weve evolved from animals, so do as thou wilt.

I think it steadyed an then declined due to more cops on the beat an better tech, jmo born

[Born Hunter 17,907]

Just now, Francie said:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm&ved=2ahUKEwj15_ypuaPaAhUpBMAKHVfkC-oQFjAAegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw0bI-MUjRyLr0Y15vIiYZz7

Here you go born, an yes it is a correlation, bibles were in schools up until the sixtys an crime was relativley low, then the bibles were taken out by the courts, to be replaced by your an animal an anything goes, as theres no set morals cause weve evolved from animals, so do as thou wilt.

I think it steadyed an then declined due to more cops on the beat an better tech, jmo born

I understand the crime stats, I'm saying you haven't provided bible stats. Mate, if there is only correlation for half the data span then it's a bit f***ing speculative to conclude jack all from it! Frankly there's probably a stronger correlation with population growth! Albeit inverse. Does that mean the elimination of bibles causes procreation?  

[Francie 6,368]

Aye i know what your saying about half the stats but that could be due to a number of reasons but i get the point, an population has risen since the stats have declined?so you cant use that lol

Oh an the elimination of bibles does not cause procreation, that can be dismissed as the population has been growing since weve been recording?

 

Edited April 5, 2018 by Francie

[Lenmcharristar 10,245]

15 minutes ago, Francie said:

Aye i know what your saying about half the stats but that could be due to a number of reasons but i get the point, an population has risen since the stats have declined?so you cant use that lol

Oh an the elimination of bibles does not cause procreation, that can be dismissed as the population has been growing since weve been recording?

 

i still believe since the west has been loosing touch with christainity its problems have got worse. and since theyre being told that theyre basically just animals then theyre behaving like them. especially the blacks, and since they were taken by black leaders from mud n stick huts and sold into slavery shows they did not evolve 1 bit since they came about and revert back to wild soon as they get freedom. look at everywhere they live, ghettos that the west side boys would be at home in

[Daniel cain 48,288]

56 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

Of course you're right, they have come from somewhere but as a being of free will and reasoned thought I, like every other the same as me, have chosen what morals I think are best. From the day you are born and able experience society we are overwhelmed with experiences and opinions to develop our morality. If you follow the teachings of the bible, it's because you chose to and of course how you interpret and apply those is a matter of free will too.

If our morality is programmed (divinely I presume) and not a matter of free will then surely the individuals religion is irrelevant, the important part is programmed into us all the same? Unless you mean that we're not all programmed with the same morality, where an individuals belief in God shows that they have been programmed 'correctly'? No free will involved? That kinda raises all sorts of problems with the teachings of the bible though, regarding us all being created equal and with free will to chose how to behave before our day of judgement before the almighty.

Bottom line for me, a person pretty f***ing close to an absolute libertarian/classical liberal, everyone should totally have the freedom to judge others however they want, we should be protected from the government doing that though. If the electorate want a godly man, then let electoral pressure guarantee one, the day we ask the law to do that for us is one step closer to tyranny, not salvation.

Used to think that we are  all products of the environment we are brought up in .... Your parents graft and provide for you then most will also be able to hold down a job and contribute to society in a positive manner.... You watch folks around you robbing, scrounging benifits and being general scum then your more than likely f****d......But with the opportunities the last 20 yrs there's no excuses these days.... Theres work if you want to work and better yourself,  anyone with the right opportunities can turn their life around imo.... Problem is the chip on most folks shoulders..... They feel the world owes them a living? When in reality they just need someone to give em a good slap and have a big cup of 'Man The f**k Up' life's what you make it..... If you want some then get off your arse and earn it?

[ChrisJones 7,975]

15 hours ago, Born Hunter said:

You said there's a correlation between bibles in schools and the crime rate and that bibles have been being taken out of schools.

The 1st Amendment forbids the establishment of religion. The bibles were never taken out of schools because they were never in there, to begin with as it's unconstitutional. Louisiana is one of the most christian states in the union. 83% of its population identify as either catholic or one of the protestant denominations. It's had the highest murder rate in the US for 28 years running and that currently stands at 11.8 per 100,000. Tennessee which bans atheists from holding public office has the highest violent crime rate in the union at 608 per 100,000 and a homicide rate of 7.3 per 100,000. Alabama 8.4 per 100,000. Arkansas 7.2 per 100,000. Mississippi 8 per 100,000...

Maine is the least religious state in the union. It boasts the lowest violent crime rate at 123 per 100,000 and the second lowest homicide rate at 1.5 per 100,000. Lowest is New Hampshire at 1.3 the second least religious state in the union. To say that removing bibles is linked to the crime rate is complete bollocks, frankly. There is plenty of circumstantial evidence to say that the quick rise and fall of crime can be linked to lead in the environment and its subsequent removal from petrol and water pipes.

If we're going to look at the United States and imply that you need to be religious to be moral then the christians should behave more like jesus and the muslims should behave less like mohammed, IMHO.

Edited April 6, 2018 by ChrisJones
Clarity

[Francie 6,368]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865581712/Supreme-Court-ruling-50-years-ago-set-modern-course-for-religion-in-public-schools.amp&ved=2ahUKEwjh_deRoKXaAhUBr6QKHcblC48QFjAAegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw2PwAMjHgeMTli_yieLSrx-&ampcf=1

Chris your always on the ball with your stats, but im afraid your wrong on this one buddy, have a wee read above link, oh bibles were in schools alright until the sixties, have a wee read.

 

Also your stats for louisiana are correct, but thats not taking in the whole picture, i never said the religous states were the most peaceful, because therees loads of factors to consider, plus all i was stating is when the bible was removed in sixties the crimes went up.

Did california not just get voted the worst state to live in america, by americans?

Yes it has??? An its a liberal lefty shithole, buy thers still beleivers there???

I think youl get my point mate.

Edited April 6, 2018 by Francie

[WILF 49,606]

Check the demographic on some of those states.........

So, points well made by Chris and Born......I can accept there is no direct correlation.

Maybe it’s just a quaint practice with no tangible benefit......it would seem so.

However, Chris nails my point in his last paragraph ( a point he has made better than I did) 

 

Edited April 6, 2018 by WILF

[Francie 6,368]

5 minutes ago, WILF said:

Check the demographic on some of those states.........

So, points well made by Chris and Born......I can accept there is no direct correlation.

Maybe it’s just a quaint practice with no tangible benefit......it would seem so.

However, Chris nails my point in his last paragraph ( a point he has made better than I did) 

 

But hes wrong about the bible in school wilf, an just cause the states which he described ie maine has lowest crime an least religous, that doesnt prove anything cause theres loads of factors to consider.

My point an opinion was that when the bible was removed from schools, that generation an maybe next went to shite for thirty odd years.

[WILF 49,606]

2 minutes ago, Francie said:

But hes wrong about the bible in school wilf, an just cause the states which he described ie maine has lowest crime an least religous, that doesnt prove anything cause theres loads of factors to consider.

My point an opinion was that when the bible was removed from schools, that generation an maybe next went to shite for thirty odd years.

As I say mate, check the demographics