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Now I have sat an shouted at the telly enough myself this week, the state of some of them dogs is terrible but let's have a bit of balance here.......the vast majority of working lurcher owners are hardly paragons of virtue when it come to keeping and breeding sub standard mutts !!

I will bet my bollocks to a barn dance that lads who really show their dogs some serious graft wouldn't give kennel space to 90% of what most people own.

You see pictures sometimes of some dog or the other that has supposedly killed a fox.....the f***ing fox looks like it has died of boredom!!

You see a proper dog round a fox, the fox looks like it has been run over with with combine harvester!!!

Folk talk about deers dogs, but they won't beleive that there are dogs out there that have had 5 or 6 hundred in its life.......they don't think such anaimals exist but they do and they are THE standard.

They get a bull cross......they have no idea where the bull came from, was it properly matched or what it was.......it just looks bully.......f**k me, I have done it myself and every time the dog gets found out at one thing or the other.

As I said before, they keep what they should cull and that's every bit as bad as pinching round a ring with some fat f***ing Lab ;)

They are responsible for much of the suffering that their breed standards encourage.

 

 

Theres a lot wrong with the kennel club but they are not responsible for the breed standards, thats down to the breed clubs, the kc is a registration body

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My younger daughter who is 13 has got a right bee in her bonnet about showing dogs and I have to honest, I actively encourage her. She is out every day working with my 2 GSPs, training, looking after

What some of you lads seem to be glossing over here is the basic cruelty thats involved in all this......so what if the working lines still exist....as people who consistently have the cruelty finger

It doesnt upset me it just pisses me off that the breeding of deformed unhealthy animals for the human ego is promoted by organisations that claim to care for animals.....thats bad enough in itself bu

 

 

Nothing wrong with crufts. If it really upsets you watching don't watch and then it won't annoy you.

Then please tell what is right about Crufts and the KC .It has done nothing but promote the ruin of most breeds.Insulting and betraying there working heritage. They won't even allow an outcross into totally fecked up bloodlines.Upset it don't saddens it does. Can't respect any stockman who claims there ain't nothing wrong with Crufts KC and there counterparts in other livestock organizations .
Oh well! same old bullshit gets written on here every year about cruffs. I've never owned a kc dog and never wil, I've done my bit.

 

You still aint said what you feel is right about Crufts just that there is nothing wrong with it.Your dog wouldt be a guide dog by any chance would it?Stevie Wonder can see what is wrong with it!

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i just enjoy watching it pal I think if you really feel deeply about crufts and the kc you start up some sort of protest group with all the lads on here who feel the same as you. Like I said I don't care a toss about it as iv never owned a kc dog and never will. Dobive done my bit not supporting them. Good luck in your quest maybe you could get a stall at ctrufts next year.

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I also think working dog owners can take a lesson from the show people in as much as the shear amount of time, effort and money in travel that they put in to make their dogs the best they can be at what they are doing.

That side of it certainly does put most working dog lads to shame.

 

Imho the deformed thing that won it was an awful sight and shouldn't be allowed to be bred but you still can't take away from the fact that the people in that final were from all over the world and you don't get there by just showing up at the door.

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Money drives a lot of that ambition wilf ... to even get a dog placed in crufts will give you the platform to demand big money for pups or stud fees .......

Oh I understand that mate, and of course you are right but the motivation is still there none the less imho

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There's one thing that has never quite summed up in my head regarding why a lot of folks get pissy about the KC and Crufts etc...

 

Why does anyone care what the show fraternity do to their dogs? Working lines should be kept separate, as the different breed they are. Moaning about the show lot ruining a working breed just seems like moaning about your own lack of action.

 

Gundogs & hounds have managed to thrive well enough in this 'new world', they got their house in order and managed to keep their lines separate and successful.

 

Is it not true that a lot of these breeds that became exclusively show dogs, although once reasonable workers, have been replaced in the field by another breed? From what I can see popular working breeds retain their working lines. There's always a good breed/line of working dog to do any given job, now and again though a new type takes it's place and the old type falls out of favour and therefore exclusively into the hands of showers.

Edited by Born Hunter
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Good post that Born I've said the same thing before about working/show lines, if the breed is valued as a worker it won't die out no matter what the show fraternity does.

 

As for the Crufts hate well I have to say I find it a bit weird seeing a load of talking points and propaganda from animal rights groups being parroted on a hunting forum.

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Good post that Born I've said the same thing before about working/show lines, if the breed is valued as a worker it won't die out no matter what the show fraternity does.

 

As for the Crufts hate well I have to say I find it a bit weird seeing a load of talking points and propaganda from animal rights groups being parroted on a hunting forum.

2 good threads on this post :thumbs: , suppose what gets people backs up , is the breed they like as a pet or worker , cannot function / work for what it was bred for in the 1st place. have not watched the program , as i seen with my own eyes even back in the 80s how some breeds had been ruined by the KC and there description of what a breed of dog should be now, not as what the breed was when 1st bred .Take 2 breeds of to day , the bullmastiff which was my breed in the 80s, they are bred to big ,no agilty, and lost there sharp temp , for what they were bred for, a night dog for a keeper, there couldn't do it now , very unhealthy breed of dog . the other the gsd are just fooked up wreaks physically and poor temps to day. i f you want a well bred gsd you have go and get them from E/Europe lines, thats bred to work ,most are army dogs , that have got good temps bold dogs and healthy , the hips HD is alot lower in this dogs than any other gsd's . it just a good job that there people out there that want a dog to do what it was bred for, the KC got lot to answer for with its attitude to dogs . i went into lurchers as wanted a dog that was healthy, good do a job if needed, nice temps, long lived , andn ot break the bank to buy like ped dogs will do to day, you carnt beat a good x breed or good old mongrel :thumbs::yes:

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What some of you lads seem to be glossing over here is the basic cruelty thats involved in all this......so what if the working lines still exist....as people who consistently have the cruelty finger pointed at us i am honestly amazed that some of you lads find the whole show thing acceptable....some even saying they enjoy it :icon_eek: .......some of us have paid the ultimate price for allowing our dogs to do what comes natural,for allowing them to do something that given the choice they would do every day of the week and twice on sundays..........yet in all the time ive been around sporting or working dogs ive never seen anything quite as cruel as purposely breeding a deformed unhealthy dog and forcing it to waddle along for people to gawp at and criticize because its ears are not placed correctly or its face isnt squashed up enough.......all because " we like them like that "......to me showing dogs is just about the worst form of blatant and unnecessary suffering man can put on a dog......it staggers me to be quite honest that otherwise good sensible chaps on this working dog forum can show these people or organisations any respect or give them any excuses whatsoever.

 

Edited by gnasher16
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What some of you lads seem to be glossing over here is the basic cruelty thats involved in all this......so what if the working lines still exist....as people who consistently have the cruelty finger pointed at us i am honestly amazed that some of you lads find the whole show thing acceptable....some even saying they enjoy it :icon_eek: .......some of us have paid the ultimate price for allowing our dogs to do what comes natural,for allowing them to do something that given the choice they would do every day of the week and twice on sundays..........yet in all the time ive been around sporting or working dogs ive never seen anything quite as cruel as purposely breeding a deformed unhealthy dog and forcing it to waddle along for people to gawp at and criticize because its ears are not placed correctly or its face isnt squashed up enough.......all because " we like them like that "......to me showing dogs is just about the worst form of blatant and unnecessary suffering man can put on a dog......it staggers me to be quite honest that otherwise good sensible chaps on this working dog forum can show these people or organisations any respect or give them any excuses whatsoever.

 

 

 

Dunno whether that was partly in reference to my post. If so, I certainly don't support this stuff but equally I don't really give a toss. Simply it ain't any of my business or concern and I find it a little perplexing why some folk think it is the ruination of working breeds. To me the ruination of working breeds comes from every dogman finding something more suited to their job, leaving few interested in carrying on the breeding of the minority breeds.

 

The deerhound used to be popular as a sighthound for big runs.... until the saluki came to this island.

 

All sorts of terriers used to be well known workers.... until the patterdale/fell came on the scene.

 

The same story of the bullmastiff and doberman with the shepherd taking the fore and today the eastern lines and the malinois take it's place.

 

And again with a large variety of old retriever and spaniel breeds which the success of the Lab, Cocker and Springer basically put an end to.

 

In some instances the job changed slightly with legislation or culture so forcing the change in favoured breed. The fact remains though that for any given sport/job there is a selection of breeds/lines out there that have survived because they are the best suited to it. It's perhaps a shame that once suitable breeds no longer have capable workers but to me that's just sentimentality.

 

You're right these hardcore show folk are being wilfully cruel, but that ain't any of my business frankly, neither does it affect me or the life I love to live.

Edited by Born Hunter
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I just think we should all live and let live when it comes to what we do with our dogs, I'd feel like a hypocrite complaining when other people label my passion as cruel and call for it to be banned only to turn around and do the same to another group of dog enthusiasts.

 

At the end of the day if folk want a dog that looks a certain way and to spend loads of time and money parading it around a ring why shouldn't that be allowed? Remember the vast majority of show dogs no matter how "deformed" you may think they are live long, healthy lives so where's the massive suffering and cruelty?

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What some of you lads seem to be glossing over here is the basic cruelty thats involved in all this......so what if the working lines still exist....as people who consistently have the cruelty finger pointed at us i am honestly amazed that some of you lads find the whole show thing acceptable....some even saying they enjoy it :icon_eek: .......some of us have paid the ultimate price for allowing our dogs to do what comes natural,for allowing them to do something that given the choice they would do every day of the week and twice on sundays..........yet in all the time ive been around sporting or working dogs ive never seen anything quite as cruel as purposely breeding a deformed unhealthy dog and forcing it to waddle along for people to gawp at and criticize because its ears are not placed correctly or its face isnt squashed up enough.......all because " we like them like that "......to me showing dogs is just about the worst form of blatant and unnecessary suffering man can put on a dog......it staggers me to be quite honest that otherwise good sensible chaps on this working dog forum can show these people or organisations any respect or give them any excuses whatsoever.

 

Mate, I completely agree with nearly all of that so don't get me wrong but to my mind (and it is only my opinion) if you take that to its logical conclusion then most people shouldn't havenpet dogs either.......and we all know they do, will continue to do so........something's just exist right or wrong.

How many time have you looked at a dog over the park and gone "f***ing hell, state of that"........we all have but that's life.

 

And a bit of my point was, there's not much honesty and loads of hypocrisy in the dog game as I'm sure you know........I'm sure you have seen these lads with breeds that would be classed as sporting breeds walking about, they may let it have a ruck in the park with a staff for 20 seconds or it rinses the local cat and all of a sudden it's a legend to be bred from and really it wouldn't last 5 minutes against a proper sporting dog kept by a dedicated owner of such animals.

And it's the same for all working dogs, and yet these folk slag off the show set (with good reason granted) but they are not putting in the time and money to fully test their own mutt at anything like the levels of the people they slag off.

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