Boxing At The Weekend...

[Gypsydog94 4,329]

[Gypsydog94 4,329]

[kanny 19,389]

I'm really looking forward to seeing AJ  on strictly next year....

[gnasher16 29,662]

At some point you have to question the coaching of a boxer who has been " built " like Joshua has......Joshua isnt a natural boxer thats clear,he has been manufactured into a strong,aggressive physical specimen who can get the job done when he go's after opponents.

Joshua needed to use the physical attributes that got him there yet chose to stand off and throw single shots against a masterful boxer like Usyk.....Joshua is a devastating combination puncher with strength and speed,but lacks ring iq......yet he spent 12 rounds throwing single shots and never changing his plan when it clearly wasnt working....i gave Joshua 2 of the middle rounds and that was all.

Joshua is a brawler....commit to brawling when boxing doesnt work....Nigel Benn went to America and learned how to box after the Micahel Watson defeat but never got away from the fact he was a brawler and when the chips were down it was that brawling that he relied on......yet Joshua didnt change a thing just continually stood trying outbox a boxer......it was a foolish,naive display from the entire Joshua camp.

[Billy b 724]

5 minutes ago, gnasher16 said:

At some point you have to question the coaching of a boxer who has been " built " like Joshua has......Joshua isnt a natural boxer thats clear,he has been manufactured into a strong,aggressive physical specimen who can get the job done when he go's after opponents.

Joshua needed to use the physical attributes that got him there yet chose to stand off and throw single shots against a masterful boxer like Usyk.....Joshua is a devastating combination puncher with strength and speed,but lacks ring iq......yet he spent 12 rounds throwing single shots and never changing his plan when it clearly wasnt working....i gave Joshua 2 of the middle rounds and that was all.

Joshua is a brawler....commit to brawling when boxing doesnt work....Nigel Benn went to America and learned how to box after the Micahel Watson defeat but never got away from the fact he was a brawler and when the chips were down it was that brawling that he relied on......yet Joshua didnt change a thing just continually stood trying outbox a boxer......it was a foolish,naive display from the entire Joshua camp.

Cant fault that post,and its why i wonder what McCracken must be thinking,who clearly isnt silly, why's he not training him to his strengths,or point blank telling him in the corner you need to go to work,this isnt working!

Joshuas also got this angel chap in his camp hasnt he? Muddys the waters a bit when you might have one saying the one thing and the next man saying different, i dunno

Joshua must know all this himself  

[gnasher16 29,662]

On 26/09/2021 at 12:44, Billy b said:

Actually trying to be a boxer takes away from him what his strengths are it doesnt work for him

I really do rate Rob McCracken,i think hes been great for the team gb set up,but whatever was he at last night in that corner? Barely even a plan a never mind a plan b 

The trouble is though mate McCracken is predominantly a trainer of amateur fighters,technique and basics etc.....i dont personally think he understands flow and momentum in fights,shifting tactics etc.....how many times could you hear shouts of " brilliant boxing AJ " coming from the corner just because he happened to get his front foot on the outside...thats absolute basics against a southpaw theres nothing brilliant about it its almost like they treat Joshua as a child or novice boxer instead of committing to what he is good at ( his physicality )

I wouldnt be surprised to see Joshua come out in the rematch and iron Usyk right out......and if he does then that will surely prove McCracken as a poor coach to have twice put straight a loss in immediate rematches.....it simply shows he got the tactics wrong first time out....against Ruiz he brawled when he should have boxed and against Usyk he boxed when he should have brawled.....i dont rate McCracken at all,when Tony Simms got every last bit of Joshuas physical prowess out of him McCracken was then supposed to polish up the finer details yet in reality i dont think Joshua is as good a fighter now as he was 3 years ago......you put ideas and priorities in a fighters head then dont be surprised when they move away from what got them there....thats my take on it anyway.

Edited September 28, 2021 by gnasher16

[gnasher16 29,662]

6 minutes ago, Billy b said:

 

Joshua must know all this himself  

No,i dont think he does....he is not a natural fighter and so totally relies on the advice he recieves.....he doesnt " feel " what natural fighters feel he boxes to a plan.....you can never fully blame a coach but why at no point did Joshua commit to attacking Usyk,even if he got all out of shape and ragged he clearly had to change something and take chances...honestly mate for me Joshuas corner have to take a lot of responsibility for that loss....and again,different tactics in a rematch may well prove as much.

[Billy b 724]

3 minutes ago, gnasher16 said:

The trouble is though mate McCracken is predominantly a trainer of amateur fighters,technique and basics etc.....i dont personally think he understands flow and momentum in fights,shifting tactics etc.....how many times could you hear shouts of " brilliant boxing AJ " coming from the corner just because he happened to get his front foot on the outside...thats absolute basics against a southpaw theres nothing brilliant about it its almost like they treat Joshua as a child or novice boxer instead of committing to what he is good at ( his physicality )

I wouldnt be surprised to see Joshua come out in the rematch and iron Usyk right out......and if he does then that will surely prove McCracken as a poor coach to have twice put straight a loss in immediate rematches.....it simply shows he got the tactics wrong first time out....against Ruiz he brawled when he should have boxed and against Usyk he boxed when he should have brawled.....i dont rate McCracken at all when Tony Simms got every last bit of Joshuas physical prowess out of him....McCracken was supposed to polish up the finer details yet in reality i dont think Joshua is as good a fighter now as he was 3 years ago......you put ideas and priorities in a fighters head then dont be surprised when they move away from what got them there....thats my take on it anyway.

Yeah he defintely is a better man for the amateur set up than he is for the pros it seems,i rate him & like his demeanor and how he goes about things but you make a point there about the flow of a fight etc that ive totally overlooked to be honest 

Yeah that shouting to aj started to grate on me a bit,no joshua is a different fighter these days and for the worse, what he is trying to do currently takes away from where his actual strengths lie 

 

[Billy b 724]

2 minutes ago, gnasher16 said:

No,i dont think he does....he is not a natural fighter and so totally relies on the advice he recieves.....he doesnt " feel " what natural fighters feel he boxes to a plan.....you can never fully blame a coach but why at no point did Joshua commit to attacking Usyk,even if he got all out of shape and ragged he clearly had to change something and take chances...honestly mate for me Joshuas corner have to take a lot of responsibility for that loss....and again,different tactics in a rematch may well prove as much.

That corner,for this time out with usyk and for ruiz was terrible,they definitely have a lot to answer for,youve covered all the main points so to that i will just add it was not a world class corner,in a fight like that a fighter should expect ,and deserves far better 

It was all a bit lost at sea,winging it 

Edited September 28, 2021 by Billy b

[gnasher16 29,662]

13 minutes ago, Billy b said:

That corner,for this time out with usyk and for ruiz was terrible,they definitely have a lot to answer for,youve covered all the main points so to that i will just add it was not a world class corner,in a fight like that a fighter should expect ,and deserves far better 

It was all a bit lost at sea,winging it 

Ive probably gone a bit ott mate but just to stress my point....George Foreman was no slick boxer or masterful tactician....can you imagine his trainer sending him out to " box " against anyone,ever ?......no.....he got sent out to do as much damage to an opponent as physically possible with the attributes you have !

[Billy b 724]

41 minutes ago, gnasher16 said:

Ive probably gone a bit ott mate but just to stress my point....George Foreman was no slick boxer or masterful tactician....can you imagine his trainer sending him out to " box " against anyone,ever ?......no.....he got sent out to do as much damage to an opponent as physically possible with the attributes you have !

No youre bang on mate ,you train your fighters to their strenghts,thats why a trainer who trains a certain style or tries to train his boxers with that style never churns out as much winners as the trainer who can see what way to go about a certain fighter,

[NEWKID 26,206]

1 hour ago, gnasher16 said:

At some point you have to question the coaching of a boxer who has been " built " like Joshua has......Joshua isnt a natural boxer thats clear,he has been manufactured into a strong,aggressive physical specimen who can get the job done when he go's after opponents.

Joshua needed to use the physical attributes that got him there yet chose to stand off and throw single shots against a masterful boxer like Usyk.....Joshua is a devastating combination puncher with strength and speed,but lacks ring iq......yet he spent 12 rounds throwing single shots and never changing his plan when it clearly wasnt working....i gave Joshua 2 of the middle rounds and that was all.

Joshua is a brawler....commit to brawling when boxing doesnt work....Nigel Benn went to America and learned how to box after the Micahel Watson defeat but never got away from the fact he was a brawler and when the chips were down it was that brawling that he relied on......yet Joshua didnt change a thing just continually stood trying outbox a boxer......it was a foolish,naive display from the entire Joshua camp.

Completely agree with that mate, only thing with Joshua is he looks all at sea everytime he is caught, Usyk troubled him 2 or 3 times.

Do you think he was scared to commit to throwing his normal flurries of punches because of what was coming back?

I dont like this new Joshua at all, he's not gonna learn how to box like Usyk in a couple of professional fights, Usyk had 300 plus amatute fights behind, the bedrock is there for all to see... AJ simply hasn't got the time to learn it now... so as you say use his best attributes and go out on his shield swinging lol...

[gnasher16 29,662]

1 hour ago, NEWKID said:

Completely agree with that mate, only thing with Joshua is he looks all at sea everytime he is caught, Usyk troubled him 2 or 3 times.

Do you think he was scared to commit to throwing his normal flurries of punches because of what was coming back?

I dont like this new Joshua at all, he's not gonna learn how to box like Usyk in a couple of professional fights, Usyk had 300 plus amatute fights behind, the bedrock is there for all to see... AJ simply hasn't got the time to learn it now... so as you say use his best attributes and go out on his shield swinging lol...

I dont think Joshua is scared to let his hands go i just think he is " over coached " ....he doesnt have the instinct to feel his way through fights and put the heat on when it feels right to and so he sticks to a script......the trouble is his script is written by a man who coaches amateur boxers and is based mostly around the basic technical aspects of boxing.....but it wasnt technical boxing basics that got Joshua to the world stage it was physical strength and nastiness.

I just think they have got too far away from what got him to the top and like you say its too late in the day to learn fundamentals if its going to prioritise over what you're actually good at.

Edited September 28, 2021 by gnasher16

[gnasher16 29,662]

On a more positive note though,what a fighter Usyk.....it was really enjoyable to see a heavyweight using pure boxing ability rather than size or strength to overcome an opponent.....the angles he gave,the speed of his feet...it really was a joy to watch......having watched it again on telly the next day,and on the subject of what a crap pundit Johnny Nelson is as someone touched on earlier in the thread ( which i totally agree with by the way ).....what an excellent pundit kid Eubank is i really enjoyed listening to him he spoke clearly and honestly.....he,ll be a good addition to that little firm if he,s on there permanently.

[gnasher16 29,662]

1 hour ago, Billy b said:

No youre bang on mate ,you train your fighters to their strenghts,thats why a trainer who trains a certain style or tries to train his boxers with that style never churns out as much winners as the trainer who can see what way to go about a certain fighter,

Exactly....i actually think Dillian Whyte would have given Usyk a tougher fight than Joshua did the other night,simply because Dillian would have made it uncomfortable for him,Joshua stood off and gave a brilliant technical boxer time and space !

I mean fair play to Joshua he ducks nobody you have to credit the guy for his willingness to fight the best and of course these set backs happen when you fight all comers but this was an opponent where any weakness in either himself or his camp will get exposed and i think thats what we saw.