English Bull And Their Crosses Thread.

[BGD 6,385]

 

 

The American Pit Bull Terrier is very much a breed. Forget about colour and ear carriage and all that other nonsense. That's conformation and has nothing to do with a pedigree of a dog bred to do a job.

The APBT aka The Bulldog is as pure bred as dogs come and tracing their ancestor's is not hard and in all the pedigrees going back to the late 1800s I have never ever seen an outcross to a terrier. How much farther do you need to go back.

Think about it, breeding small dogs to go under ground has been around for less than 300 years but the need for large powerful fighting types has been around for over a thousand years.

When dogfighting became popular the fighting breeds were made smaller for the pit but IMO this was done by breeding from smaller fighting types not by outcrossing to a terrier.

Why would you use a small type of hunting dog that has to stand back and bay (which is the type used back then) to breed into a breed that must be full on using his mouth to hold and fight an opponent ???

Yes, I'm sure crosses between the two were made for the rat pits and they were called bull and terriers but I've never heard of the blood from any rat pit dogs make their way into any lines of fighters.

Fighting dogs for the last couple of centuries have been bred fighter to fighter and in the case of the EBT that most certainly is not the case.

Not into dogfighting myself but the history and pedigrees of that fascinating breed (the APBT) is there for anyone to see.

Of course it's as pure as any dog breed out there because all breeds are a mixture of different dogs somewhere down the line. If there's no Terrier blood in there then why is there so many historical articles and writings stating otherwise? I don't buy the opinion that Terrier blood was added just to downsize the dogs for the pits, there must have been a benefit to their fighting ability when these crosses were made. You don't cross a Racehorse with a Donkey to make it faster. The EBT is nothing but a showdog but like I said, it's ancestor's were likely Pit dogs of the past, the same with the Staff. Form follows function, the Staff and the EBT are offshoots of the working Bull and Terrier (APBT)

 

Putting a donkey across a racehorse to make it faster would be the same as putting terrier into bulldogs to make them gamer, think about it.

As for putting terrier into a line of bulldog ? When did this happen ? Where's the pedigrees and proof ? Where did it happen ?

If it happened in Ireland where bulldogs started going to the states before the famine then the terrier used would probably have to have been the rough coated breed indigenous to Ireland. How come no bulldog has ever come broken coated ?

If it happened in Britain what terrier outcross was used ? The white sounding type ? What would that bring to the table ?

The Northern Fell types ? The lakes was no a stronghold for the bull types that Britain was famous for.

The Blue Paul was in Scotland. If the working terriers of Scotland were used ,again, they're all hairy coated.

One thing's for sure, the Yanks DID NOT put terrier blood into the bulldog once they got their hands on it.

As for the ancestors of the EBT being fighting dogs ?????

Who are the men that fought Dalmations and English White Terriers ?

 

 

Why have they been known as terriers for over 100 years if there's no terrier blood?

 

I'd say the smooth coated terriers used in the rat pits would have been what was used...

[DogFox123 1,379]

 

 

 

 

 

The American Pit Bull Terrier is very much a breed. Forget about colour and ear carriage and all that other nonsense. That's conformation and has nothing to do with a pedigree of a dog bred to do a job.

The APBT aka The Bulldog is as pure bred as dogs come and tracing their ancestor's is not hard and in all the pedigrees going back to the late 1800s I have never ever seen an outcross to a terrier. How much farther do you need to go back.

Think about it, breeding small dogs to go under ground has been around for less than 300 years but the need for large powerful fighting types has been around for over a thousand years.

When dogfighting became popular the fighting breeds were made smaller for the pit but IMO this was done by breeding from smaller fighting types not by outcrossing to a terrier.

Why would you use a small type of hunting dog that has to stand back and bay (which is the type used back then) to breed into a breed that must be full on using his mouth to hold and fight an opponent ???

Yes, I'm sure crosses between the two were made for the rat pits and they were called bull and terriers but I've never heard of the blood from any rat pit dogs make their way into any lines of fighters.

Fighting dogs for the last couple of centuries have been bred fighter to fighter and in the case of the EBT that most certainly is not the case.

Not into dogfighting myself but the history and pedigrees of that fascinating breed (the APBT) is there for anyone to see.

Of course it's as pure as any dog breed out there because all breeds are a mixture of different dogs somewhere down the line. If there's no Terrier blood in there then why is there so many historical articles and writings stating otherwise? I don't buy the opinion that Terrier blood was added just to downsize the dogs for the pits, there must have been a benefit to their fighting ability when these crosses were made. You don't cross a Racehorse with a Donkey to make it faster. The EBT is nothing but a showdog but like I said, it's ancestor's were likely Pit dogs of the past, the same with the Staff. Form follows function, the Staff and the EBT are offshoots of the working Bull and Terrier (APBT)

Putting a donkey across a racehorse to make it faster would be the same as putting terrier into bulldogs to make them gamer, think about it.

As for putting terrier into a line of bulldog ? When did this happen ? Where's the pedigrees and proof ? Where did it happen ?

If it happened in Ireland where bulldogs started going to the states before the famine then the terrier used would probably have to have been the rough coated breed indigenous to Ireland. How come no bulldog has ever come broken coated ?

If it happened in Britain what terrier outcross was used ? The white sounding type ? What would that bring to the table ?

The Northern Fell types ? The lakes was no a stronghold for the bull types that Britain was famous for.

The Blue Paul was in Scotland. If the working terriers of Scotland were used ,again, they're all hairy coated.

One thing's for sure, the Yanks DID NOT put terrier blood into the bulldog once they got their hands on it.

As for the ancestors of the EBT being fighting dogs ?????

Who are the men that fought Dalmations and English White Terriers ?

Why have they been known as terriers for over 100 years if there's no terrier blood?

 

I'd say the smooth coated terriers used in the rat pits would have been what was used...

Tbh the Doberman is supposedly a Pinscher, which means Terrier in German yet I don't think Terrier is in the breed. Edited July 14, 2016 by DogFox123

[BGD 6,385]

 

 

 

 

The American Pit Bull Terrier is very much a breed. Forget about colour and ear carriage and all that other nonsense. That's conformation and has nothing to do with a pedigree of a dog bred to do a job.

The APBT aka The Bulldog is as pure bred as dogs come and tracing their ancestor's is not hard and in all the pedigrees going back to the late 1800s I have never ever seen an outcross to a terrier. How much farther do you need to go back.

Think about it, breeding small dogs to go under ground has been around for less than 300 years but the need for large powerful fighting types has been around for over a thousand years.

When dogfighting became popular the fighting breeds were made smaller for the pit but IMO this was done by breeding from smaller fighting types not by outcrossing to a terrier.

Why would you use a small type of hunting dog that has to stand back and bay (which is the type used back then) to breed into a breed that must be full on using his mouth to hold and fight an opponent ???

Yes, I'm sure crosses between the two were made for the rat pits and they were called bull and terriers but I've never heard of the blood from any rat pit dogs make their way into any lines of fighters.

Fighting dogs for the last couple of centuries have been bred fighter to fighter and in the case of the EBT that most certainly is not the case.

Not into dogfighting myself but the history and pedigrees of that fascinating breed (the APBT) is there for anyone to see.

Of course it's as pure as any dog breed out there because all breeds are a mixture of different dogs somewhere down the line. If there's no Terrier blood in there then why is there so many historical articles and writings stating otherwise? I don't buy the opinion that Terrier blood was added just to downsize the dogs for the pits, there must have been a benefit to their fighting ability when these crosses were made. You don't cross a Racehorse with a Donkey to make it faster. The EBT is nothing but a showdog but like I said, it's ancestor's were likely Pit dogs of the past, the same with the Staff. Form follows function, the Staff and the EBT are offshoots of the working Bull and Terrier (APBT)

Putting a donkey across a racehorse to make it faster would be the same as putting terrier into bulldogs to make them gamer, think about it.

As for putting terrier into a line of bulldog ? When did this happen ? Where's the pedigrees and proof ? Where did it happen ?

If it happened in Ireland where bulldogs started going to the states before the famine then the terrier used would probably have to have been the rough coated breed indigenous to Ireland. How come no bulldog has ever come broken coated ?

If it happened in Britain what terrier outcross was used ? The white sounding type ? What would that bring to the table ?

The Northern Fell types ? The lakes was no a stronghold for the bull types that Britain was famous for.

The Blue Paul was in Scotland. If the working terriers of Scotland were used ,again, they're all hairy coated.

One thing's for sure, the Yanks DID NOT put terrier blood into the bulldog once they got their hands on it.

As for the ancestors of the EBT being fighting dogs ?????

Who are the men that fought Dalmations and English White Terriers ?

Why have they been known as terriers for over 100 years if there's no terrier blood?

 

I'd say the smooth coated terriers used in the rat pits would have been what was used...

Tbh the Doberman is supposedly a Pinscher, which means Terrier in German yet I don't think Terrier is in the breed.

 

 

It's called that because it has German Pinscher blood in its make up though

 

Just like the APBT isn't really a terrier but it carries the name because of the breeding behind it.

Edited July 14, 2016 by BGD

[DogFox123 1,379]

 

 

 

 

 

 

The American Pit Bull Terrier is very much a breed. Forget about colour and ear carriage and all that other nonsense. That's conformation and has nothing to do with a pedigree of a dog bred to do a job.

The APBT aka The Bulldog is as pure bred as dogs come and tracing their ancestor's is not hard and in all the pedigrees going back to the late 1800s I have never ever seen an outcross to a terrier. How much farther do you need to go back.

Think about it, breeding small dogs to go under ground has been around for less than 300 years but the need for large powerful fighting types has been around for over a thousand years.

When dogfighting became popular the fighting breeds were made smaller for the pit but IMO this was done by breeding from smaller fighting types not by outcrossing to a terrier.

Why would you use a small type of hunting dog that has to stand back and bay (which is the type used back then) to breed into a breed that must be full on using his mouth to hold and fight an opponent ???

Yes, I'm sure crosses between the two were made for the rat pits and they were called bull and terriers but I've never heard of the blood from any rat pit dogs make their way into any lines of fighters.

Fighting dogs for the last couple of centuries have been bred fighter to fighter and in the case of the EBT that most certainly is not the case.

Not into dogfighting myself but the history and pedigrees of that fascinating breed (the APBT) is there for anyone to see.

Of course it's as pure as any dog breed out there because all breeds are a mixture of different dogs somewhere down the line. If there's no Terrier blood in there then why is there so many historical articles and writings stating otherwise? I don't buy the opinion that Terrier blood was added just to downsize the dogs for the pits, there must have been a benefit to their fighting ability when these crosses were made. You don't cross a Racehorse with a Donkey to make it faster. The EBT is nothing but a showdog but like I said, it's ancestor's were likely Pit dogs of the past, the same with the Staff. Form follows function, the Staff and the EBT are offshoots of the working Bull and Terrier (APBT)

Putting a donkey across a racehorse to make it faster would be the same as putting terrier into bulldogs to make them gamer, think about it.

As for putting terrier into a line of bulldog ? When did this happen ? Where's the pedigrees and proof ? Where did it happen ?

If it happened in Ireland where bulldogs started going to the states before the famine then the terrier used would probably have to have been the rough coated breed indigenous to Ireland. How come no bulldog has ever come broken coated ?

If it happened in Britain what terrier outcross was used ? The white sounding type ? What would that bring to the table ?

The Northern Fell types ? The lakes was no a stronghold for the bull types that Britain was famous for.

The Blue Paul was in Scotland. If the working terriers of Scotland were used ,again, they're all hairy coated.

One thing's for sure, the Yanks DID NOT put terrier blood into the bulldog once they got their hands on it.

As for the ancestors of the EBT being fighting dogs ?????

Who are the men that fought Dalmations and English White Terriers ?

Why have they been known as terriers for over 100 years if there's no terrier blood?

 

I'd say the smooth coated terriers used in the rat pits would have been what was used...

Tbh the Doberman is supposedly a Pinscher, which means Terrier in German yet I don't think Terrier is in the breed.

It's called that because it has German Pinscher blood in its make up though

 

Just like the APBT isn't really a terrier but it carries the name because of the breeding behind it.

It's debatable that German Pinscher blood is in it's makeup as Doberman didn't keep any records of his breedings.

 

I agree with Neil though, the APBT is the closest thing to the original Bulldog even though it almost certainly has Terrier in it's makeup.

[BGD 6,385]

 

 

 

 

 

 

The American Pit Bull Terrier is very much a breed. Forget about colour and ear carriage and all that other nonsense. That's conformation and has nothing to do with a pedigree of a dog bred to do a job.

The APBT aka The Bulldog is as pure bred as dogs come and tracing their ancestor's is not hard and in all the pedigrees going back to the late 1800s I have never ever seen an outcross to a terrier. How much farther do you need to go back.

Think about it, breeding small dogs to go under ground has been around for less than 300 years but the need for large powerful fighting types has been around for over a thousand years.

When dogfighting became popular the fighting breeds were made smaller for the pit but IMO this was done by breeding from smaller fighting types not by outcrossing to a terrier.

Why would you use a small type of hunting dog that has to stand back and bay (which is the type used back then) to breed into a breed that must be full on using his mouth to hold and fight an opponent ???

Yes, I'm sure crosses between the two were made for the rat pits and they were called bull and terriers but I've never heard of the blood from any rat pit dogs make their way into any lines of fighters.

Fighting dogs for the last couple of centuries have been bred fighter to fighter and in the case of the EBT that most certainly is not the case.

Not into dogfighting myself but the history and pedigrees of that fascinating breed (the APBT) is there for anyone to see.

Of course it's as pure as any dog breed out there because all breeds are a mixture of different dogs somewhere down the line. If there's no Terrier blood in there then why is there so many historical articles and writings stating otherwise? I don't buy the opinion that Terrier blood was added just to downsize the dogs for the pits, there must have been a benefit to their fighting ability when these crosses were made. You don't cross a Racehorse with a Donkey to make it faster. The EBT is nothing but a showdog but like I said, it's ancestor's were likely Pit dogs of the past, the same with the Staff. Form follows function, the Staff and the EBT are offshoots of the working Bull and Terrier (APBT)

Putting a donkey across a racehorse to make it faster would be the same as putting terrier into bulldogs to make them gamer, think about it.

As for putting terrier into a line of bulldog ? When did this happen ? Where's the pedigrees and proof ? Where did it happen ?

If it happened in Ireland where bulldogs started going to the states before the famine then the terrier used would probably have to have been the rough coated breed indigenous to Ireland. How come no bulldog has ever come broken coated ?

If it happened in Britain what terrier outcross was used ? The white sounding type ? What would that bring to the table ?

The Northern Fell types ? The lakes was no a stronghold for the bull types that Britain was famous for.

The Blue Paul was in Scotland. If the working terriers of Scotland were used ,again, they're all hairy coated.

One thing's for sure, the Yanks DID NOT put terrier blood into the bulldog once they got their hands on it.

As for the ancestors of the EBT being fighting dogs ?????

Who are the men that fought Dalmations and English White Terriers ?

Why have they been known as terriers for over 100 years if there's no terrier blood?

 

I'd say the smooth coated terriers used in the rat pits would have been what was used...

Tbh the Doberman is supposedly a Pinscher, which means Terrier in German yet I don't think Terrier is in the breed.

It's called that because it has German Pinscher blood in its make up though

 

Just like the APBT isn't really a terrier but it carries the name because of the breeding behind it.

It's debatable that German Pinscher blood is in it's makeup as Doberman didn't keep any records of his breedings.

 

I agree with Neil though, the APBT is the closest thing to the original Bulldog even though it almost certainly has Terrier in it's makeup.

 

 

Definitely in 100% agreement there.

Edited July 14, 2016 by BGD

[neil cooney 10,415]

It's also well written in several interviews over the years that a lot of the old timers, the men who made the Pit Bull what it is today, never liked the word "terrier" being in the name of their breed as they too felt that there was no terrier blood in the breed. Hence the reason most of them called them Pit Bulls or Bulldogs.

That's the last I'll say on the subject because like most things in the game it's a matter of opinion, even though I know I'm right, LOL. .

[DogFox123 1,379]

It's also well written in several interviews over the years that a lot of the old timers, the men who made the Pit Bull what it is today, never liked the word "terrier" being in the name of their breed as they too felt that there was no terrier blood in the breed. Hence the reason most of them called them Pit Bulls or Bulldogs.

That's the last I'll say on the subject because like most things in the game it's a matter of opinion, even though I know I'm right, LOL. .

I'm assuming you're talking about American dogmen? Let's be honest they wouldn't know the exact origins of the breed either so their guess is as good as ours. Richard Stratton is of the view that the APBT is the Bulldog but like I said, why so many historical articles and such stating otherwise? Edited July 14, 2016 by DogFox123

[BGD 6,385]

It's also well written in several interviews over the years that a lot of the old timers, the men who made the Pit Bull what it is today, never liked the word "terrier" being in the name of their breed as they too felt that there was no terrier blood in the breed. Hence the reason most of them called them Pit Bulls or Bulldogs.

That's the last I'll say on the subject because like most things in the game it's a matter of opinion, even though I know I'm right, LOL. .

 

It's one of the many debates in the dog game that will never be settled Good craic arguing it over a few drinks with likeminded folk though

[Lenmcharristar 9,183]

 

It's also well written in several interviews over the years that a lot of the old timers, the men who made the Pit Bull what it is today, never liked the word "terrier" being in the name of their breed as they too felt that there was no terrier blood in the breed. Hence the reason most of them called them Pit Bulls or Bulldogs.

That's the last I'll say on the subject because like most things in the game it's a matter of opinion, even though I know I'm right, LOL. .

 

It's one of the many debates in the dog game that will never be settled Good craic arguing it over a few drinks with likeminded folk though

bollix, bet your th nutter that always starts the rows in the game fair beer tents

[VOON 1,313]

http://www.colbypitbull.com/jerry75.jpg

 

????

[Francie 6,362]

That a colby mate

[VOON 1,313]

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/3814/zatoichiknl.11/0_27db9_57773742_L

[VOON 1,313]

That a colby mate

Sorry, I should have clarified. What do your eyes see?

[Bryan 1,361]

 

That a colby mate

Sorry, I should have clarified. What do your eyes see?

 

 

Yankee Boys' Gr Ch Mammy

[DogFox123 1,379]

 

That a colby mate

Sorry, I should have clarified. What do your eyes see?

I'm guessing you're pointing out the terrier resemblance.