Is The Apbt The True Bulldog Or A Terrier Cross?

[DogFox123 1,379]

In certain circles the term " Bulldog " within the breed of American Pit Bull Terriers is reserved specifically for the very best examples of the breed......" that dogs a real bulldog " for example would not be a description used for a poor representative or an unproven dog so its not generally used as a term to describe a breed but a quality of animal within that breed......Americans use it to describe a fighting Apbt regardless but in Europe it tends to be used as more of a badge of honour type of word.

For me theres no doubt about the cross of bull and terrier it doesnt take a clever person to see this is a breed with the rugged brutality and aggression of a bulldog and the persistence desire and tenacity of a terrier...........when you see dogs of the breed even today who are a million miles away from pit dogs and are poor representatives of the breed yet still hold elements of these traits it tells me these are " bull and terrier " traits that have been heightened by man to such a level that even the poor ones still maintain the traits......no book or mans writings will convince me anything different to the story my eye can see in front of me.

Most of the APBT fanatics claim their Gameness comes solely from the Bulldog but I'm not so sure, I reckon the Terriers also brought this trait to the mix, the Bulldog looking types are usually rough dogs but lack the deep Gameness. I dare say that there was infusion of different Terrier types as well as Bulldog types in the APBT's makeup.

[DogFox123 1,379]

Wether we like to hear it or not the Yanks definitely perfected the breed IMO.

Edited August 14, 2015 by DogFox123

[keepdiggin 9,220]

Wether we like to hear it or not the Yanks definitely perfected the breed IMO.

when would you say they perfected the breed mate?

[neil cooney 10,415]

IMO the dogs that left these shores many years ago and eventually became the APBT in the states had no terrier blood whatsoever in them.

Think about it for a second.

The terrier of those days were mostly curs (same as today) that were used with no locator to bolt or locate their quarry using their voice.

NOW, what would such blood add to a dog that's job was completely different ?

Yes, when the rat pits were flourishing a smaller dog was needed and when bull and bear baiting was common a bigger heavier dog was needed but the dogs that went to America were tested on each other and the best was put to the best. The first breed ever recognised by the United Kennel Club in America was the APBT such was it's purity. IMO he and the greyhound are the most pure bred breeds there are.

American dog men have always labeled them Bulldogs but in no way have any of them ever compared them to the breed now known as the Olde English Bulldog, a breed that was in fact extinct and resurrected the same as the Irish Wolfhounds.

Up until only a few decades ago they were known as Bulldogs, Am Staffs, Pit Bulls,Pit Bulldogs and American Pit Bull Terriers. The purists have always hated the word "terrier" being in the name.

Joe Corvino, one of the fathers of the modern APBT used to call them American Staffords in his adds but bulldogs when he spoke of them.

 

I've no time for fighting sports but love the breed and it's history and the APBT is a classic example of how a breed can be destroyed by the peddlers.

[DogFox123 1,379]

 

Wether we like to hear it or not the Yanks definitely perfected the breed IMO.

 

when would you say they perfected the breed mate?

How do I know that, I know the quality of the dogs improved over time. Surely you can't deny this?

[DogFox123 1,379]

IMO the dogs that left these shores many years ago and eventually became the APBT in the states had no terrier blood whatsoever in them.

Think about it for a second.

The terrier of those days were mostly curs (same as today) that were used with no locator to bolt or locate their quarry using their voice.

NOW, what would such blood add to a dog that's job was completely different ?

Yes, when the rat pits were flourishing a smaller dog was needed and when bull and bear baiting was common a bigger heavier dog was needed but the dogs that went to America were tested on each other and the best was put to the best. The first breed ever recognised by the United Kennel Club in America was the APBT such was it's purity. IMO he and the greyhound are the most pure bred breeds there are.

American dog men have always labeled them Bulldogs but in no way have any of them ever compared them to the breed now known as the Olde English Bulldog, a breed that was in fact extinct and resurrected the same as the Irish Wolfhounds.

Up until only a few decades ago they were known as Bulldogs, Am Staffs, Pit Bulls,Pit Bulldogs and American Pit Bull Terriers. The purists have always hated the word "terrier" being in the name.

Joe Corvino, one of the fathers of the modern APBT used to call them American Staffords in his adds but bulldogs when he spoke of them.

 

I've no time for fighting sports but love the breed and it's history and the APBT is a classic example of how a breed can be destroyed by the peddlers.

Nice to see someone who's view is the APBT is the original Bulldog.

[gnasher16 29,662]

 

Most of the APBT fanatics claim their Gameness comes solely from the Bulldog but I'm not so sure, I reckon the Terriers also brought this trait to the mix, the Bulldog looking types are usually rough dogs but lack the deep Gameness. I dare say that there was infusion of different Terrier types as well as Bulldog types in the APBT's makeup.

 

Im no historian of the breed it doesnt particularly interest me but in terms of " type " i dont believe type has any bearing on the internal workings of a dogs make up he either is or he isnt i dont think looks/type come into it personally as we are way too far down the line in terms of genetic re-direction to differentiate between bull type and terrier type for anything more than physical conformation....... for me it was nature that hatched the plan....but man who built it.

[DogFox123 1,379]

 

IMO the dogs that left these shores many years ago and eventually became the APBT in the states had no terrier blood whatsoever in them.

Think about it for a second.

The terrier of those days were mostly curs (same as today) that were used with no locator to bolt or locate their quarry using their voice.

NOW, what would such blood add to a dog that's job was completely different ?

Yes, when the rat pits were flourishing a smaller dog was needed and when bull and bear baiting was common a bigger heavier dog was needed but the dogs that went to America were tested on each other and the best was put to the best. The first breed ever recognised by the United Kennel Club in America was the APBT such was it's purity. IMO he and the greyhound are the most pure bred breeds there are.

American dog men have always labeled them Bulldogs but in no way have any of them ever compared them to the breed now known as the Olde English Bulldog, a breed that was in fact extinct and resurrected the same as the Irish Wolfhounds.

Up until only a few decades ago they were known as Bulldogs, Am Staffs, Pit Bulls,Pit Bulldogs and American Pit Bull Terriers. The purists have always hated the word "terrier" being in the name.

Joe Corvino, one of the fathers of the modern APBT used to call them American Staffords in his adds but bulldogs when he spoke of them.

 

I've no time for fighting sports but love the breed and it's history and the APBT is a classic example of how a breed can be destroyed by the peddlers.

Nice to see someone who's view is the APBT is the original Bulldog.

One thing that backs up your argument is Bulldog is added to Terriers this day and age to harden them up, you wouldn't see the opposite taking place.

[keepdiggin 9,220]

 

 

Wether we like to hear it or not the Yanks definitely perfected the breed IMO.

when would you say they perfected the breed mate?

How do I know that, I know the quality of the dogs improved over time. Surely you can't deny this?

 

I just thought it was a bold statement to make.

[DogFox123 1,379]

 

 

 

Wether we like to hear it or not the Yanks definitely perfected the breed IMO.

 

when would you say they perfected the breed mate?

How do I know that, I know the quality of the dogs improved over time. Surely you can't deny this?

I just thought it was a bold statement to make.

I don't think that's the case at all.

[BGD 6,385]

IMO the dogs that left these shores many years ago and eventually became the APBT in the states had no terrier blood whatsoever in them.

Think about it for a second.

The terrier of those days were mostly curs (same as today) that were used with no locator to bolt or locate their quarry using their voice.

NOW, what would such blood add to a dog that's job was completely different ?

Yes, when the rat pits were flourishing a smaller dog was needed and when bull and bear baiting was common a bigger heavier dog was needed but the dogs that went to America were tested on each other and the best was put to the best. The first breed ever recognised by the United Kennel Club in America was the APBT such was it's purity. IMO he and the greyhound are the most pure bred breeds there are.

American dog men have always labeled them Bulldogs but in no way have any of them ever compared them to the breed now known as the Olde English Bulldog, a breed that was in fact extinct and resurrected the same as the Irish Wolfhounds.

Up until only a few decades ago they were known as Bulldogs, Am Staffs, Pit Bulls,Pit Bulldogs and American Pit Bull Terriers. The purists have always hated the word "terrier" being in the name.

Joe Corvino, one of the fathers of the modern APBT used to call them American Staffords in his adds but bulldogs when he spoke of them.

 

I've no time for fighting sports but love the breed and it's history and the APBT is a classic example of how a breed can be destroyed by the peddlers.

All interesting points and its good to have the other side of the debate represented but I just see too many terrier behaviour traits to accept there was no infusion of terrier blood into the breed.

 

I do think the % of terrier blood differs from line to line though with some families expressing very little or no terrier influence and others showing loads.

Edited August 14, 2015 by BGD

[gnasher16 29,662]

IMO the dogs that left these shores many years ago and eventually became the APBT in the states had no terrier blood whatsoever in them.

Think about it for a second.

The terrier of those days were mostly curs (same as today) that were used with no locator to bolt or locate their quarry using their voice.

NOW, what would such blood add to a dog that's job was completely different ?

Yes, when the rat pits were flourishing a smaller dog was needed and when bull and bear baiting was common a bigger heavier dog was needed but the dogs that went to America were tested on each other and the best was put to the best. The first breed ever recognised by the United Kennel Club in America was the APBT such was it's purity. IMO he and the greyhound are the most pure bred breeds there are.

American dog men have always labeled them Bulldogs but in no way have any of them ever compared them to the breed now known as the Olde English Bulldog, a breed that was in fact extinct and resurrected the same as the Irish Wolfhounds.

Up until only a few decades ago they were known as Bulldogs, Am Staffs, Pit Bulls,Pit Bulldogs and American Pit Bull Terriers. The purists have always hated the word "terrier" being in the name.

Joe Corvino, one of the fathers of the modern APBT used to call them American Staffords in his adds but bulldogs when he spoke of them.

 

I've no time for fighting sports but love the breed and it's history and the APBT is a classic example of how a breed can be destroyed by the peddlers.

Thats interesting.....

 

If im not wrong the Cajun rules were brought out in order to stop a dog needing to scratch into a dead dog to obtain victory.......so if the sole objective was the first dog to kill or inflict as much damage on the opponent as possible is the winner then where is the need for gameness ?......which as we know was a trait that existed in these dogs long before Cajun rules came into play.......yet a trait not really associated with Bulldogs.

 

Just something to think about.

Edited August 14, 2015 by gnasher16

[DogFox123 1,379]

There's usually no smoke without fire, why all the mention of Terrier blood in the mix if it's not true?

[dare 1,103]

Have seen some pits that look really bully like. I know alot of people try to "recreate" the old bulldog and sell the pups for a heavy price. Is a few different breeds of bulldog where people have attempted it. Saw a bully looking pit which i thought pissed over peoples attempts to be honest. Huge block head with an underbite jaw and a lovely lean 38lb body, fit and able to do anything asked. Wasnt bred to look any certain way just came out like that and only saw photos of the parents but they looked sod all like a bulldog and just your typical pit.

[Bosun11 537]

Ok, lets rewind this a bit and start with the bulldog. No, not them John D Johnson inspired efforts that ain't got the balls they were born with but the original bulldog, British bred from molossors (spelling?) and mastiffs. Look to it's name 'bull'dog because long before dog fighting was popular bull baiting was the game. Them real bulldogs were set, on mass, to a bull in a ring and required to hold on, many taking serious stick and dying in the process and eventually bringing that animal to it's knees. Bear baiting was pretty popular too but bears were rare and expensive and so like today (!) rare and expensive things are usually only in the capital. The rest of the country used bulls and the name stuck. So apart from avoiding them hooves an feet not much style was needed simply guts and tenacity with a jaw to match. The sport lasted centuries.

 

Around 1835 or sommat bull baiting was becoming unpopular, not for the cruelty, mainly from the hooligan element that followed it! Subsiquently it was banned and dog fighting, which was/is a much smaller quieter affair became popular.

 

Thing is, and it's well documented, them old bulldogs were too slow and heavy for the job. It was lighter, faster dogs that produced the better matches and so they bred the dogs lighter, to suit. In Scotland for a few years they kept the heavier type, 'bluepauls' they called em but even these died out.

Dogs were/are fought on weight, so if you've only got a bulldog but you need a smaller faster dog for the pit, bearing in mind that all you then need to find is folk with the same weight dogs for a match, where you gonna go lookin for sommat to down size and speed up your dog...

 

Well i'm backing those nondescript terrier types that were slaying rats in there hundreds in the pits on the days they weren't fighting dogs....

 

And just like those line bred bull bred lurchers that breed true to type, once that initial lining was done, if it was right, they just bred close. No need to add any more terrier, they were now a type and some of the best emigrated to a land with much less persecution and flourished, into what is now the American Pitt Bull Terrier... and although there is only a drop of terrier, that terrier is obviously there... forever!

 

Anyway's that's my take on it, make of that what you will...