Same Old Question? (Maybe)

[jacknife 2,005]

 

 

At the end of the day I think people should practice more, if you cant headshot a fox at 100 yards with a hmr you shouldn,t be pulling the trigger, its not fair on the animal, I think a lot of people are forgetting a rule which was taught to me from a young age don't shoot at any live quarry until your marksmanship is good enough to administer a clean kill.

Easier said than done sometimes

 

I don't know anyone who lamps who always goes for a head shot

 

I am normally in a car shooting out the window so I always go for the chest

it was a general marksmanship point i was making but if you are lamping from a truck surely you have a steady rest to shoot from

Not really it could be the wing mirror or door frame

 

But it all happens in a split second plus the engines running

[shropshire dan 467]

+1 I use the mirror of my volvo xc90 with a pillow underneath

[nasher1 258]

The mirror or door frame of the Isuzu but tend to have the engine switched off

[Elliott 436]

Putting foxes to one side for a moment, I honestly feel that the .22LR has been way underestimated since the arrival of the HMR.

 

I sold my Anschutz HMR after buying a secondhand CZ .22LR for £150! It now caters for rabbits out to 125 yards with relative ease. I never really shot my HMR past 150 yards so for me the .22LR could do 99% of what I needed for rabbits!

 

Same could be said for foxes. I shot two with the HMR, both head shots at sub yards. The .22LR could almost definately do the same. I sold the HMR to fund a .223 which will smack them out to almost any practical range.

 

Each to their own but for me the HMR can be simply bypassed. If it's only for rabbits learn to shoot a .22LR and it'll cater for almost all your needs. With subsonic rounds not only are they cheap but they are virtually silent too

Edited April 14, 2015 by Elliott

[shropshire dan 467]

+1 Elliott. Hmr is a very fun long range round. But I take me .22 out to 120 yards which is more than plenty for rabbits.

[Deker 3,453]

 

Depends where you are

 

Hmr or Cf to the chest of a fox are both going to kill it

But the HMR will NOT humanely kill a fox with a chest shot past yards. Believe me I hold my hands up and done it, hence why I have now sold the hmr and got a .22-250

 

Nobody is doubting that the hmr is inadequate for fox but it certainly will kill a fox wheather or not it drops on the spot is a different matter. Head shot is a must, with my .22-250 I can honestly say I've never had a runner I've had the odd nerve twitch and that's it.

 

 

Come on SD, you know you can't go round making definitive statements like that, someone is always going to pull you up.

 

I took a member of this forum out on Tuesday, and he will attest to the fact the 2 fox I chest shot at 90 and 110 yards with the HMR were dead before they hit the floor, not a twitch!

 

No doubt others have had the same result even further out!

 

and what's this... "Nobody is doubting that the hmr is inadequate for fox"

 

 

Edit

I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest here but, the above is witnessed fact!

Edited April 16, 2015 by Deker

[ianm 2,594]

 

Depends where you are

 

Hmr or Cf to the chest of a fox are both going to kill it

But the HMR will NOT humanely kill a fox with a chest shot past yards. Believe me I hold my hands up and done it, hence why I have now sold the hmr and got a .22-250

 

Nobody is doubting that the hmr is inadequate for fox but it certainly will kill a fox wheather or not it drops on the spot is a different matter. Head shot is a must, with my .22-250 I can honestly say I've never had a runner I've had the odd nerve twitch and that's it.

 

 

 

If you have never had a runner it is because you have shot relatively few foxes. Believe me 22.250 or not if you shoot at enough then you will get runners. I have witnessed runners from all calibres up to and including .243. The method you are using to shoot is also conducive to producing runners, ie: from a vehicle off a wing mirror, sooner or later you will take a shot where you are stretching round or the rifle slips on it's "pillow" or you haven't allowed enough windage, there will be a "pop" and it will be off like a whippet out of trap 1. Shot placement is key to be a humane kill on anything regardless of calibre.

 

[shropshire dan 467]

I've literally taken a very clean lung shot on a adult vixen at no more than 70 yards and she ran, she was fooked and required a second shot meaning that shot wasn't humane. Sure you maybe dropped foxes with chest shot cleanly but it's obviously not a 100% guaranteed chest shot killer. Where as other calibres are.

 

The comment you highlighted Is saying nobody is saying the hmr is no good for fox.

 

Ive taken many foxes with the hmr as humanly as my .22-250 but those were with headshot within 100 yards, the hmr is easily capable but Imo head shots if possible are a must and chest shots within 50 yards again Imo

 

I was using 17g vmax and have heard the 20g cci give a much bigger punch

Edited April 16, 2015 by shropshire dan

[Alsone 789]

I said it above and I'll say it again, there's a question between what is humane and what will kill.

 

It's reported that David killed Goliath with a catapult, but it doesn't mean that hunters should be using catapults against bears!

 

There's no doubt in theory you could kill a fox at 200 yds with a HMR as it still has 72 ftlbs of retained energy (17 gr). However, it would be irresponsible to attempt it because it's highly unlikely you could still introduce hydrostatic shock at that range, which in the absence of bullet weight and huge amounts of retained energy, is likely the major killing factor as a .17 calibre bullet has a very narrow wound tract without fragmentation, efficient energy transfer and hydrostatic shock wave.

 

The there's the windage factor which even at 70 or yds with HMR has the potential to turn an accurate shot into a very inaccurate one.

 

The debate will rage on, and I have no doubt Deker is correct that as an excellent marksman he has shot foxes cleanly at 120yds with HMR with well placed chest shots.

 

The question is though, at what range it becomes indefensible to shoot something fox sized with a HMR.

 

Personally, I think that likely lies at Deker's stated range but with a headshot and from an excellent marksman in still conditions. I agree with Dan in so far as I don't think it's responsible to chest shoot a fox with a HMR at anything other than close ranges. At 60 yds plus I personally think you should be headshooting and even then giving careful consideration to max range and likely wind drift. On a still day it might be 120yds or even a little more. But responsibility says that for something fox sized, over 100yds there are better choices for Joe Average, even though it remains an excellent long range tool for bunny sized targets.

 

Ultimately, it's not about killing first time, but consistently killing first time (whilst accepting that nothing is ever 100%. It should be very very close though!).

[jacknife 2,005]

What are views on chest shot deer that run before dropping dead

 

I don't see any difference to a fox running before dropping dead

[Alsone 789]

Personally, I have no experience of deer shooting so can't comment beyond what I've read which is varying views from deer running on due to nerve activity even though technically dead to deer bleeding out. I'm sure others will have views and real life experience.

 

There is a difference with deer though in that the rounds are designed to minimise meat damage and so tend to be of a controlled expansion (jacketed / semi-jacketed) design rather than a fragmenting or out and out hydrostatic shocking design. How much that affects the humaneness of the kill, again I wouldn't know

 

However, make no mistake, it takes a lot more energy to kill something the size of a deer than the size of a fox and one thing that can be said about fox, it's possible to drop them instantly on the spot without so much as a sound or the blink of an eyelid consistently with the correct round for the job in the circumstances. Given that, every shooter owes it to the fox not too push the boundaries of reasonable range for any given round too far. Respect for your quarry should always be foremost in any shooters mind.

[charlie caller 3,654]

Putting foxes to one side for a moment, I honestly feel that the .22LR has been way underestimated since the arrival of the HMR.

 

I sold my Anschutz HMR after buying a secondhand CZ .22LR for £150! It now caters for rabbits out to 125 yards with relative ease. I never really shot my HMR past 150 yards so for me the .22LR could do 99% of what I needed for rabbits!

 

Same could be said for foxes. I shot two with the HMR, both head shots at sub yards. The .22LR could almost definately do the same. I sold the HMR to fund a .223 which will smack them out to almost any practical range.

 

Each to their own but for me the HMR can be simply bypassed. If it's only for rabbits learn to shoot a .22LR and it'll cater for almost all your needs. With subsonic rounds not only are they cheap but they are virtually silent too

Thats the best thing to do with an hmr, bypass it

[shropshire dan 467]

What are views on chest shot deer that run before dropping dead

 

I don't see any difference to a fox running before dropping dead

You'd have a much better chance finding a deer that's run than a fox

[danw 1,748]

 

What are views on chest shot deer that run before dropping dead

 

I don't see any difference to a fox running before dropping dead

You'd have a much better chance finding a deer that's run than a fox

You'll be needing a dog for that then mark my words it be compulsory soon

Lol

[Born Hunter 17,638]

 

 

What are views on chest shot deer that run before dropping dead

I don't see any difference to a fox running before dropping dead

You'd have a much better chance finding a deer that's run than a fox

You'll be needing a dog for that then mark my words it be compulsory soon

Lol

HA! But what constitutes a fox tracking dog? Clearly I care more about the poor foxes than deer having a dog that can track those feckers pretty well. I'm just a calous b*****d really, BASC will save my soul. LOL