trenchfoot 4,243 Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 @ Keepitcovert The few images I have are all fairly dated ,.nothing special.. Never took many photos back then...had no reason to... Just bred dogs for my own use, they were just my take on the Smithfield lurcher. It is good to see a few guys that are still interested, in such antiquated things.... All the best, Phil. Phil, Was that dog out of "Sadie"? to be honest, its like a blast from my family past Quote Link to post
Tapairu Smithfields 3 Posted February 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 Thanks everyone for your really interesting comments. We just wanted to know where the the UK Smithfields had ended up and it sounds like there is a nice type which appears to be called a Smithfield Lurcher as well as other variants. We've emailed David Hancock for his thoughts on what the old type Smithfield looked like. We absolutely agree that they were either a variant of Beardie or that rough coat cur type of dog that must have been quite prevalent in the UK which ultimately ended up with the Beardie and the Old English Sheepdog. We've also been tracking down the old books which discuss the old rough coat dogs and their provenance. We've got Smithfields here in New Zealand from very old lines with real provenance. They work like nothing else, we are on a 2000 acre dairy farm and our Smithfield x Huntway and our pure/straight Smithfields are brilliant with the cows and esp. the bulls. They never miss a cow in the paddock and are brilliant in the yards too. We can't fault them to be honest. They are smart, hard working dogs with lovely temperaments. Our farm is VERY hilly and we've read this is where they excel - and they do for sure. There are two types in NZ, both have longish coats, one flatter and one more beardie in type, they have the white ruff and bob tail that the Old Smithfield had. It doesn't seem to matter what they look like (or even if crossed with another breed) they work in exactly the same way so they really are a working type not just a "look" type. We were so impressed with our Smithfield x Huntaway (who is now getting on) that we decided to find a straight Smithfield pup to bring on with him. Sam, our first straight Smithfield was out herding our goat kids from the day we brought him home and he has just got better and better. When the opportunity came up to buy his granddam and his aunt (a puppy) we bought them. Then we heard about a longer coated more Beardie type Smithfield dog pup which we bought also. Our aim over here is to breed this lovely but fantastic working dog in as true a fashion to the Old Smithfields in both type and working ability as we can. There is no point in them not being able to work well as that is the key to a real Smithfield. 2 Quote Link to post
Phil Lloyd 10,739 Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 (edited) No fellah, I put Sadie to that old Blue Shag,..and produced a couple of litters,... Crazy days,...crazy dawgs,..but it was all great fun... Edited February 19, 2015 by Phil Lloyd 2 Quote Link to post
trenchfoot 4,243 Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 No fellah, I put Sadie to that old Blue Shag,..and produced a couple of litters,... Crazy days,...crazy dawgs,..but it was all great fun... I have recently had a look at a litter, where half of them looked just like those 2 pups. But in the main they were black and white, Which I'm surprised that picture isn't! 1 Quote Link to post
neil cooney 10,416 Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Thanks everyone for your really interesting comments. We just wanted to know where the the UK Smithfields had ended up and it sounds like there is a nice type which appears to be called a Smithfield Lurcher as well as other variants. We've emailed David Hancock for his thoughts on what the old type Smithfield looked like. We absolutely agree that they were either a variant of Beardie or that rough coat cur type of dog that must have been quite prevalent in the UK which ultimately ended up with the Beardie and the Old English Sheepdog. We've also been tracking down the old books which discuss the old rough coat dogs and their provenance. We've got Smithfields here in New Zealand from very old lines with real provenance. They work like nothing else, we are on a 2000 acre dairy farm and our Smithfield x Huntway and our pure/straight Smithfields are brilliant with the cows and esp. the bulls. They never miss a cow in the paddock and are brilliant in the yards too. We can't fault them to be honest. They are smart, hard working dogs with lovely temperaments. Our farm is VERY hilly and we've read this is where they excel - and they do for sure. There are two types in NZ, both have longish coats, one flatter and one more beardie in type, they have the white ruff and bob tail that the Old Smithfield had. It doesn't seem to matter what they look like (or even if crossed with another breed) they work in exactly the same way so they really are a working type not just a "look" type. We were so impressed with our Smithfield x Huntaway (who is now getting on) that we decided to find a straight Smithfield pup to bring on with him. Sam, our first straight Smithfield was out herding our goat kids from the day we brought him home and he has just got better and better. When the opportunity came up to buy his granddam and his aunt (a puppy) we bought them. Then we heard about a longer coated more Beardie type Smithfield dog pup which we bought also. Our aim over here is to breed this lovely but fantastic working dog in as true a fashion to the Old Smithfields in both type and working ability as we can. There is no point in them not being able to work well as that is the key to a real Smithfield. What's the background behind the Huntaway and in your trials over there ,are they only for Huntaways ? Quote Link to post
Tapairu Smithfields 3 Posted February 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 All we know about our Huntaway is that he was a Huntaway x Smithfield. We know the breeder bred Huntaways before he found Smithfields and loved the cross, best working dog ever he said (apart from the straight Smithfields). Huntaways are very popular in NZ as working dogs for cattle. For some odd reason there are not many working shows for cattle dogs, but more for sheep (eye dogs). Here is a photo of our Huntaway x Smithfield (he looks nothing like a Smithfield except for his bob tail and behind) and our young Beadie x Huntaway Jack. Jack is also a superb dog. 1 Quote Link to post
loafer 49 Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Was talking to a boy last week about smithfeilds he knows someone in New Zealand that works them we spoke about importing a pup but haven't realy looked into it yet why ? Something different and gives us the chance to get lurchers like the old mick douglas dogs that used to be up this way If you wanted to recreate the dog's of Mick Douglas you would not need a collie, there was no collie directly in them ,they were just lurcher to lurcher bred. 1 Quote Link to post
Phil Lloyd 10,739 Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 You are correct there Loafer... Back in the day,..I visited every man who claimed to have the blood of the old Droving dogs in his line of lurcher. To say that it was an eye opener,..would be an understatement... I was born into sheepdogs, cattle dogs and a miscellany of roustabout herders,..and for me, it is the sagacity and hardiness of such critters, that makes (or made) their inclusion into a line of hunting dogs so worthwhile... Quite why lads used to make claims of their dogs being descended from such ancient beasts,..is baffling When I bred my own Smithfield Collie / Norfolk lurcher look-a-likes,..I made no secret of the fact that they were home bred,..not for resale and created from my own rabbiting/roe deer dog, put to a Blue Shag working cur, from the Sussex Downlands.. There was nothing mysterious or exclusive about them... They served me well and caught plenty of bits and bobs.. Saw many fast and speedy, wooly coated dogs for hare coursing, they were nice, and selectively bred for that task,.. Great times back then,.but such superlative animals would be of no use to me today.... All the best, Phil. 2 Quote Link to post
Neal 1,929 Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Tapairu Smithfields, don't worry about the appearance of your dogs; it's far more important to have a dog which works the way you want than one which looks like it might. Quote Link to post
riohog 5,907 Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Was talking to a boy last week about smithfeilds he knows someone in New Zealand that works them we spoke about importing a pup but haven't realy looked into it yet why ? Something different and gives us the chance to get lurchers like the old mick douglas dogs that used to be up this way If you wanted to recreate the dog's of Mick Douglas you would not need a collie, there was no collie directly in them ,they were just lurcher to lurcher bred. from what i remember mike douglas got his first lurcher a collie x from mike dawcra in yrmouth from there on douglas saw the poteccial in dog breeding!! Quote Link to post
coco 261 Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Was talking to a boy last week about smithfeilds he knows someone in New Zealand that works them we spoke about importing a pup but haven't realy looked into it yet why ? Something different and gives us the chance to get lurchers like the old mick douglas dogs that used to be up this way If you wanted to recreate the dog's of Mick Douglas you would not need a collie, there was no collie directly in them ,they were just lurcher to lurcher bred.the dogs I have here resemble mick Douglas dogs I use them for hunting the hills lurches x lurches breeding they hunt like hounds from what i remember mike douglas got his first lurcher a collie x from mike dawcra in yrmouth from there on douglas saw the poteccial in dog breeding!! Quote Link to post
coco 261 Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Was talking to a boy last week about smithfeilds he knows someone in New Zealand that works them we spoke about importing a pup but haven't realy looked into it yet why ? Something different and gives us the chance to get lurchers like the old mick douglas dogs that used to be up this way If you wanted to recreate the dog's of Mick Douglas you would not need a collie, there was no collie directly in them ,they were just lurcher to lurcher bred.the dogs I have here resemble mick Douglas dogs I use them for hunting the hills lurches x lurches breeding they hunt like houndsfrom what i remember mike douglas got his first lurcher a collie x from mike dawcra in yrmouth from there on douglas saw the poteccial in dog breeding!! I have dogs like MD bred lurcher x lurcher Quote Link to post
beast 1,884 Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 anyone remember aubrey fryer? he reckoned he had pure smithfields in the 80s and was crossing them to greyhounds, as i recall Quote Link to post
darbo 4,779 Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 One of aubrey friars dogs did he really have pure smithfields back in the day 2 Quote Link to post
darbo 4,779 Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Some of his pups. 2 Quote Link to post
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.