Written Permission

[John Stott 202]

 

I think this discussion could go full circle, probably has. The Deer Act shows sensible and clear direction.

The one thing to remember from this, as always for me anyway. We live in an anti gun culture. Anti hunting as well.

Not being clued up is asking for bother, so why not just be sensible?

I reckon only the few forces that have wildlife officers, and they are very thin on the ground, will have an understanding. The average plod is clueless, the clerks more so. That is more true in urban areas.

I shoot, always have done. Even I have a tale of gross stupidity. My neighbour has a four acre field that borders me for about 150 yards. He moved in with his self certification in place, lets say he is older, in fact he is .

Two years ago a .22 round whistled passed my head missing by a few feet, you can feel it. I complained to him, got told to f... off. So, I called old bill, he had been popping off at pigeons for a few months in all directions. Plod visited him, low key. It stopped for six months. One night two years ago I was potting up some plants, bang. A dead woody dropped ten feet away from me, then bang again, a round hit the side of the house.

My wife, as always sensible, stopped me going round. We were concerned for our grand daughter who plays in our paddock by now, plus public safety. Folk ride and dog walk within a hundred yards of this fellows holding. We complained to the FLO. Chummy received a visit and was told enough, next complaint and bye,bye FAC. We got that in writing. Safety? He broke many, many rules of being a safe gun.

Now thats one shooter complaining about another. That is one reason I think we all must use common sense. Not only shoot safely, do not become lax, or worse arrogant. When wandering, or wherever, carry the written word with you.

Given my own experience, and a few other idiots I could mention with shotguns, think how ignorant Joe Public sees us.

:hmm:

 

You do not need written permission to shoot deer. You simply have to comply with additional conditions if you want to shoot them out of season! What clear direction is that and how does it relate to .22lr, small ground game and vermin?

 

As regards the rest of your post, I'm struggling to see any connection to written permission?

 

I quoted an example of one shooter disrespecting good etiquette and practice. Take it as you want it chum. You don't have to read it or respond. A lot of these threads break down into daft arguments in my opinion. Or are you the type whos opinions are more worthy than others?

 

As for the fellow who picked up the M25 point I made elsewhere, they were over 200 yards from the embankment with a permission that had existed for years. I gave them it.

 

I stick by the mantra, carry the written with you when you are on that ground. Thats good practice. Accept that few plod have any idea about what we do, or indeed the finer points of law regarding any shooting.

As for pest controllers, its a business, there are guidelines and good practice. Let folk know that pest control is taking place by your company. That funnily can not only educate, it it good for the image of all shooting. Something we all should aim for, pun intended. Have the courtesy to copy and push through letterboxes, put up signage, I know some would say "why bother, its legal". Guess I am the type who makes an effort. I am ex military and safety is wired into my thinking. Also so is courtesy.

 

End of my comments on the subject.

[celticrusader 78]

Yeh alls good thought it should be a little more clearer as its near word for word perfect with the rimfires...anyways a trip down to sportsman's on monday for a look I think

[Deker 3,453]

 

Let me be clear here for those who have not read my posts earlier in this thread.

 

I am not suggesting you shouldn't get written permission, indeed I have said it can be useful, I am simply making the point that it is not a legal necessity for shooting or getting a FAC!

Well your area must be different to mine, in south yorks, if you apply for a fac for vermin/deer on private land, and do not provide evidence of written permission, you will not be granted the certificate, simple as that. I quite agree it is not needed for shooting, and I must have a dozen farms where I have verbal permission to shoot only, perhaps I am foolish? But that is how some of my landowners like it, and I for one respect that, it is their choice to write a letter or not.

 

Charlie

 

I am not suggesting for a minute your region does not make life hard for you, but they work from the SAME law as every region, if they insist on Written permission that is one of their ideas, it has no backing in law.

 

I also fully accept it is difficult for some to question their region, but the mere fact that others have said they do not supply written consents is an obvious confirmation this is not a legal requirement.

 

I even understand why yours, and other regions, ask for written consents, it makes their life easier, simple as, but they have no legal right to demand this, and if you can show them good evidence of your need for a FAC then they have to issue your FAC.

 

Again I repeat, written consent is useful, and of course this is a good way of demonstrating your need, no question at all, but there is no legal requirement for it. And of course your region can flex muscles they don't have and ask for all sorts of things, and many do.

 

ATB!

Edited July 19, 2014 by Deker

[danw 1,748]

Yeh alls good thought it should be a little more clearer as its near word for word perfect with the rimfires...anyways a trip down to sportsman's on monday for a look I think

You'll be lucky mate all there stocks up the game fair

[charlie caller 3,654]

Interesting take on things Deker, how would one show good reason, if you did not have written authority? I accept that evidence of stalking may be good reason, but not everyone wants to go stalking, or are you suggesting that just giving them the name address tel no ect of the landowner will suffice? Remember I am talking about somebody applying for the first time, yes if they were prepared to phone the landowner and ask him/her if you have permission then that would suffice, indeed they have done just that with me on renewal, I think they like it in writing to cover their collective asses, I can imagine it would not be the first time a new applicant has said they have authority to shoot on ground they dont.

[charlie caller 3,654]

Yeh alls good thought it should be a little more clearer as its near word for word perfect with the rimfires...anyways a trip down to sportsman's on monday for a look I think

It is clear mate could not be clearer, you can use your rifle on land deemed SUITABLE by the chief constable for that area, so if you got some permission in Devon for instance, if it is passed for .243 upwards, your good to go, if its only passed for .22rf for instance you cannot, until it is open. So if it mirrors what your rimfire conditions say, they are not open either.

Edited July 19, 2014 by charlie caller

[danw 1,748]

What does it say for your .22 and .17 then Celtic ?

[Deker 3,453]

Interesting take on things Deker, how would one show good reason, if you did not have written authority? I accept that evidence of stalking may be good reason, but not everyone wants to go stalking, or are you suggesting that just giving them the name address tel no ect of the landowner will suffice? Remember I am talking about somebody applying for the first time, yes if they were prepared to phone the landowner and ask him/her if you have permission then that would suffice, indeed they have done just that with me on renewal, I think they like it in writing to cover their collective asses, I can imagine it would not be the first time a new applicant has said they have authority to shoot on ground they dont.

I tend to agree, but that does not change the legal position.

 

Authority is all you need, verbal is fine, tell your region to go ask the guy if they doubt you!

 

You simply have to show them good reason, like I said, your region, and no doubt others, are flexing muscles they don't have, and few if any have the balls to question them!

 

Show me one piece of Firearms legislation that says you must provide written consent to get/renew a FAC!

 

Indeed, ask your region to supply you with the legislation that says you must supply them with WRITTEN permission!

 

They will no doubt get upset with you, because you have called their bluff and they are stuffed, because they can't, they will simply respond by saying that "it is our policy!"

 

Their policy has nothing to do with the Law of the land.

[celticrusader 78]

Well I'm not home at the moment so I can't give word for word but I've been open on the rimmies for a few Years now but there is only a slight variation in the way it is written compared to the .243 , I dont believe its as clear as could be tbh...being that I'm dyspraxic I dont interpret information the same as others and sometimes iam confused in the wording or way things are written.

 

I didn't think it was open but then I'm not that bothered as it'll be open when I put in for it after proving I'm competent after a set time.

[kenj 131]

I have replied on this topic before and must be fortunate to have had licences from South Bucks Police and now Berkshire (Thames Valley), where the name of the farmer and his phone number have been sufficient. I have an open license and use whatever rifle I deem fit for the quarry and safety of the public.

When I took over on a farm due to the death of the previous owner, the new owner, a barrister, would not sign a permission slip, saying in law I did not need written permission, and any such written permission could be used as a right to shoot on his land, requiring him to go to law to end it. He gave me his phone number and name only. Fair enough it could be tricky, if you fell out with the landowner, but then you wouldn't shoot his land after anyway.

[charlie caller 3,654]

Might I ask you a question, genuine question not a trick one, when you first applied, not renewed but applied, did you provide written evidence of permission to shoot on private land, or did you just provide a name and phone number?

[kenj 131]

When I applied for my FAC I already had permissions on various farms for a 12ftlb rifle. I had used the BASC card to put the name of the farm and phone number down. Of five, only two were prepared to sign it. One nearly refused permission, when I said the police would want access to the land. At the FAC interview, I had Google maps of all the bits of land and got the OK, the FO suggesting I have .17 HMR in addition to .22 FAC air rifle and .22 LR, as it would save me applying later. After about two years, following a site visit to check out suitability for .22 LR and .17 HMR, he recommended I apply for my open ticket and got it. That last bit of land is tenanted by an Irishman named Mick and all I have is his phone number. I rarely see him. This was my blog of the land this week. http://www.urbanfieldsportsman.com/index.php/cz-452-17-hmr-makes-hay-while-the-sun-shines/

[Cedric 132]

When I first applied I was required to supply written evidence - no "if's or but's"! After a suitable period I now have an 'open' licence.

 

Upon filling out the new form for my latest renewal (in progress at the moment) I supplied the name and address of one permission - as requested on the form.

 

My FEO turned up today for an interview and had a note in his folder that permission evidence was missing from my application ! They wanted a signature from the land owner. It's no problem but definatly was not asked for on the form.

[mattydski 560]

 

Interesting take on things Deker, how would one show good reason, if you did not have written authority? I accept that evidence of stalking may be good reason, but not everyone wants to go stalking, or are you suggesting that just giving them the name address tel no ect of the landowner will suffice? Remember I am talking about somebody applying for the first time, yes if they were prepared to phone the landowner and ask him/her if you have permission then that would suffice, indeed they have done just that with me on renewal, I think they like it in writing to cover their collective asses, I can imagine it would not be the first time a new applicant has said they have authority to shoot on ground they dont.

I tend to agree, but that does not change the legal position.

 

Authority is all you need, verbal is fine, tell your region to go ask the guy if they doubt you!

 

You simply have to show them good reason, like I said, your region, and no doubt others, are flexing muscles they don't have, and few if any have the balls to question them!

 

Show me one piece of Firearms legislation that says you must provide written consent to get/renew a FAC!

 

Indeed, ask your region to supply you with the legislation that says you must supply them with WRITTEN permission!

 

They will no doubt get upset with you, because you have called their bluff and they are stuffed, because they can't, they will simply respond by saying that "it is our policy!"

 

Their policy has nothing to do with the Law of the land.

 

100 % correct, with regard to the OP...

 

And in Scotland, written permission is disregarded at FAC renewal or application in favor of a phone call.....

 

That's not to say i don't have written permission..or recommend folk don't obtain it . I do... for my own purposes.. but for not for legislative reasons or fire arms licensing..

[charlie caller 3,654]

When I applied for my FAC I already had permissions on various farms for a 12ftlb rifle. I had used the BASC card to put the name of the farm and phone number down. Of five, only two were prepared to sign it. One nearly refused permission, when I said the police would want access to the land. At the FAC interview, I had Google maps of all the bits of land and got the OK, the FO suggesting I have .17 HMR in addition to .22 FAC air rifle and .22 LR, as it would save me applying later. After about two years, following a site visit to check out suitability for .22 LR and .17 HMR, he recommended I apply for my open ticket and got it. That last bit of land is tenanted by an Irishman named Mick and all I have is his phone number. I rarely see him. This was my blog of the land this week. http://www.urbanfieldsportsman.com/index.php/cz-452-17-hmr-makes-hay-while-the-sun-shines/

Ok so to all intents and purposes, you provided written evidence of proof of land to shoot on, by dint of the fact that landowners signed the BASC script! I too have an open cert and on renewal all I was asked for was details of one area of land and the landowners contact details, my whole point throughout this debate has not been about renewals, or gaining new land to shoot on, but at first application, certainly in my area, and it would appear others too, written evidence of permission to shoot is required.