Religion/god Given Rights..

[Malt 379]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hail woden

Hail Woden

Yeah cause paganism is much easier to accept with witches and wise men with special healing powers dancing round a set of stones bollock naked worshiping mother nature and other green men.

"hail Hogwarts"

I dont think you understand much about the paganism our ancestors followed.

.

Perhaps not but that's probably to do with every pagen I have ever met seems to be an expert in why my religious beliefs are riduculas but fail to tell me EXACTLY what the Pagen belief is. When i ask "so tell me what you believe?" in It all gets met with a big smoke screen of god or gods, patriarchhal vs matriarchal different opinions depending who I'm talking to and I have asked this of several pagens I know.

Just to set the record straight about the bible, the new testament is not a book written by a guy in the desert but is a combined series of books (gospels) from several different peoples perspectives of what they witnessed. Just like if ten people went to a football match and sat in different parts of the stadium we would each give our account of what we saw from our perspective, this is a very crude explanation of the new testament.

It's interesting to note historically the apostles after the crucifixion went to all parts of the world to spread the message of the Christianity and what they had witnessed, almost all of them were tortured to death to denounce Christianity and not one of them would deny what they had seen. You'd think if it was all a bit of a story they might have said "oh hold on a minute I was only joking"

I said it before and wil say it again each must find their own path to travel

It's hard to explain to someone who hasn't taken time to study them,even more so someone who has been indoctrinated in Christianity.

There are pagans who literally believe Zeus or Thor is up in the clouds creating thunder being pulled along on his chariot by goats,or the world is literally a tree with witches living at the bottom of it,I think they usually call themselves asatruan.

There are feminists who call themselves Wiccan,who are probably just not yet got over the novelty that there exists a religion that doesn't oppress women,but can't seem to find balance and go the to the other extreme and thinks its acceptable to try and oppress men.

And there are people who view the stories about the European gods (Roman,Greek,Germanic,Scandinavian,Gaelic etc) as symbolic.

for example,Most of us agree the European gods are the same gods under different names,Thor is Zeus and Jupiter.

From the eddas we know Thor doesn't interfere with our lives directly,but protects us from the forces of nature,he has red hair and is the biggest and strongest god.

It also happens that Jupiter is the biggest planet in our solar system,its red and its magnetic fields have probably saved our planet from being more than once.

With all due respect mate I find it difficult how a Pagen can criticise Christianity and suggest how implausible it can be but can have no problem in believing in multiple gods plural.

If there are so many different versions of Paganism do Pagens argue who is right?

No there's no agenda.

 

Like I'm sure you know Christianity was forced on people to make them easier to rule,paganism evolved organically in our people,its our natural religion.

 

I think the majority would fit into the bottom category,so the gods are symbolic,they just represent nature,did you read the example at the bottom of my long winded post?

 

How do you know paganism wasn't forced upon people in exactly the same way when they were considered the mainstream of their day?

[WILF 50,049]

I have to say, what a thread this has been........who could of thought that a bunch of hairy arsed dudes with an interest in hunting could string together such articulate posts.

 

For or against, the vast majority of posts and the people that write them have been brilliant.

 

Hats off to all

[Born Hunter 17,910]

WILF, I'm on the verge of topping myself just to see if the big man meets me on the other side! Put this to bed once and for all! LOL

[paulus 26]

imagine the universe is a goldfish bowl full of water, (is the universe held together by something?) now imagine the planets etc. are all weighted to fill that universe so nothing spills out, what happens say when a black hole appears and it gravity keeps increasing its density, where does the displaced universe go?? try chucking half a dozen table tennis balls in a full fish tank, then fill them with concrete and chuck them in again

[mushroom 14,081]

WILF, I'm on the verge of topping myself just to see if the big man meets me on the other side! Put this to bed once and for all! LOL

Let us know how it works out :laugh:

[Drebz87 39]

This is really geeky but read the dark matter trilogy by Pullman for a young adult book the way religion and scientist views are conveyed are absolutely brilliant, what if there's space between space? What fills these? What would happen if you reared the smallest particle in existence??

[neems 2,406]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hail woden

 

Hail Woden

Yeah cause paganism is much easier to accept with witches and wise men with special healing powers dancing round a set of stones bollock naked worshiping mother nature and other green men.

"hail Hogwarts"

I dont think you understand much about the paganism our ancestors followed.

.

Perhaps not but that's probably to do with every pagen I have ever met seems to be an expert in why my religious beliefs are riduculas but fail to tell me EXACTLY what the Pagen belief is. When i ask "so tell me what you believe?" in It all gets met with a big smoke screen of god or gods, patriarchhal vs matriarchal different opinions depending who I'm talking to and I have asked this of several pagens I know.

Just to set the record straight about the bible, the new testament is not a book written by a guy in the desert but is a combined series of books (gospels) from several different peoples perspectives of what they witnessed. Just like if ten people went to a football match and sat in different parts of the stadium we would each give our account of what we saw from our perspective, this is a very crude explanation of the new testament.

It's interesting to note historically the apostles after the crucifixion went to all parts of the world to spread the message of the Christianity and what they had witnessed, almost all of them were tortured to death to denounce Christianity and not one of them would deny what they had seen. You'd think if it was all a bit of a story they might have said "oh hold on a minute I was only joking"

I said it before and wil say it again each must find their own path to travel

It's hard to explain to someone who hasn't taken time to study them,even more so someone who has been indoctrinated in Christianity.

There are pagans who literally believe Zeus or Thor is up in the clouds creating thunder being pulled along on his chariot by goats,or the world is literally a tree with witches living at the bottom of it,I think they usually call themselves asatruan.

There are feminists who call themselves Wiccan,who are probably just not yet got over the novelty that there exists a religion that doesn't oppress women,but can't seem to find balance and go the to the other extreme and thinks its acceptable to try and oppress men.

And there are people who view the stories about the European gods (Roman,Greek,Germanic,Scandinavian,Gaelic etc) as symbolic.

for example,Most of us agree the European gods are the same gods under different names,Thor is Zeus and Jupiter.

From the eddas we know Thor doesn't interfere with our lives directly,but protects us from the forces of nature,he has red hair and is the biggest and strongest god.

It also happens that Jupiter is the biggest planet in our solar system,its red and its magnetic fields have probably saved our planet from being more than once.

With all due respect mate I find it difficult how a Pagen can criticise Christianity and suggest how implausible it can be but can have no problem in believing in multiple gods plural.

If there are so many different versions of Paganism do Pagens argue who is right?

No there's no agenda.

Like I'm sure you know Christianity was forced on people to make them easier to rule,paganism evolved organically in our people,its our natural religion.

I think the majority would fit into the bottom category,so the gods are symbolic,they just represent nature,did you read the example at the bottom of my long winded post?

How do you know paganism wasn't forced upon people in exactly the same way when they were considered the mainstream of their day?

I know that I am genetically similar to my ancestors,and I have no urge to force any religion on anyone,but there aren't that many reliable records.

The whole concept of forcing a belief system on people seems contrary to what records we have.

 

We also know that when pagans settled they tended not to force religions on people.

 

The Romans

The Mongolians

The Vikings

 

Probably more too.

[paulus 26]

imagine the universe is a goldfish bowl full of water, (is the universe held together by something?) now imagine the planets etc. are all weighted to fill that universe so nothing spills out, what happens say when a black hole appears and it gravity keeps increasing its density, where does the displaced universe go?? try chucking half a dozen table tennis balls in a full fish tank, then fill them with concrete and chuck them in again

 

 

This is really geeky but read the dark matter trilogy by Pullman for a young adult book the way religion and scientist views are conveyed are absolutely brilliant, what if there's space between space? What fills these? What would happen if you reared the smallest particle in existence??

[Malt 379]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hail woden

Hail Woden

Yeah cause paganism is much easier to accept with witches and wise men with special healing powers dancing round a set of stones bollock naked worshiping mother nature and other green men.

"hail Hogwarts"

I dont think you understand much about the paganism our ancestors followed.

.

Perhaps not but that's probably to do with every pagen I have ever met seems to be an expert in why my religious beliefs are riduculas but fail to tell me EXACTLY what the Pagen belief is. When i ask "so tell me what you believe?" in It all gets met with a big smoke screen of god or gods, patriarchhal vs matriarchal different opinions depending who I'm talking to and I have asked this of several pagens I know.

Just to set the record straight about the bible, the new testament is not a book written by a guy in the desert but is a combined series of books (gospels) from several different peoples perspectives of what they witnessed. Just like if ten people went to a football match and sat in different parts of the stadium we would each give our account of what we saw from our perspective, this is a very crude explanation of the new testament.

It's interesting to note historically the apostles after the crucifixion went to all parts of the world to spread the message of the Christianity and what they had witnessed, almost all of them were tortured to death to denounce Christianity and not one of them would deny what they had seen. You'd think if it was all a bit of a story they might have said "oh hold on a minute I was only joking"

I said it before and wil say it again each must find their own path to travel

It's hard to explain to someone who hasn't taken time to study them,even more so someone who has been indoctrinated in Christianity.

There are pagans who literally believe Zeus or Thor is up in the clouds creating thunder being pulled along on his chariot by goats,or the world is literally a tree with witches living at the bottom of it,I think they usually call themselves asatruan.

There are feminists who call themselves Wiccan,who are probably just not yet got over the novelty that there exists a religion that doesn't oppress women,but can't seem to find balance and go the to the other extreme and thinks its acceptable to try and oppress men.

And there are people who view the stories about the European gods (Roman,Greek,Germanic,Scandinavian,Gaelic etc) as symbolic.

for example,Most of us agree the European gods are the same gods under different names,Thor is Zeus and Jupiter.

From the eddas we know Thor doesn't interfere with our lives directly,but protects us from the forces of nature,he has red hair and is the biggest and strongest god.

It also happens that Jupiter is the biggest planet in our solar system,its red and its magnetic fields have probably saved our planet from being more than once.

With all due respect mate I find it difficult how a Pagen can criticise Christianity and suggest how implausible it can be but can have no problem in believing in multiple gods plural.

If there are so many different versions of Paganism do Pagens argue who is right?

No there's no agenda.

Like I'm sure you know Christianity was forced on people to make them easier to rule,paganism evolved organically in our people,its our natural religion.

I think the majority would fit into the bottom category,so the gods are symbolic,they just represent nature,did you read the example at the bottom of my long winded post?

How do you know paganism wasn't forced upon people in exactly the same way when they were considered the mainstream of their day?

I know that I am genetically similar to my ancestors,and I have no urge to force any religion on anyone,but there aren't that many reliable records.

The whole concept of forcing a belief system on people seems contrary to what records we have.

 

We also know that when pagans settled they tended not to force religions on people.

 

The Romans

The Mongolians

The Vikings

 

Probably more too.

 

Genetics? You're also genetically similar to Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, Sikhs, Chimps, Gorillas, Fruit flies, bananas, etc.. Can't see wtf genetics has got to with your beliefs..

[Born Hunter 17,910]

 

WILF, I'm on the verge of topping myself just to see if the big man meets me on the other side! Put this to bed once and for all! LOL

Let us know how it works out :laugh:

 

 

I'll do that shroom, but ironically you'll have to wait untill you join me...

[paulus 26]

imprinting i hate turnips because my dad did

[Huan72 687]

Its a mistake to confuse neo paganism for the paganism of old, make no mistake about it, when cultures practised paganism en mass the religious rights would have been used to control the population. Druids, the original ones combined being scientifically aware for the time, knowing about herbal remedies, movements of the stars, moon and sun with the shamanistic status they had. They would have and no doubt did have absolute control over the population. To romanticize old European paganism is putting a modern spin on the actual religion, new age paganism, including wicca is a 20th century creation, nothing wrong with that and it may share the same ideas, duality of the divine, the ability to achieve change through spiritual power, observations of the agricultural and celestial calenders but I am sure that many of the practices are quite different. As soon as a priestly class develops in any religion, control is being exercised over the population, that person is saying that to the reach the divine, you need me, and lets be honest, shamanism, the origin of many religions puts the shaman in a very important and powerful position. When it comes to religion as soon as someone says to me, my religions better than yours, I doubt their wisdom

[The Seeker 3,048]

Genetics? You're also genetically similar to Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, Sikhs, Chimps, Gorillas, Fruit flies, bananas, etc.. Can't see wtf genetics has got to with your beliefs..

 

Totally agree again it's almost as though the Pagen faith is a faith to denounce other faiths because it is the religion of our cave dwelling ancestors. I'm still confused why the Pagen belief/religion thinks it outrageous that Christianity exists when it itsself is based on several gods and in some instances in your own words these are symbolic. Do you not see my point re my original question getting an answer from a Pagen about what you believe in is like trying to catch smoke.

I mean no offence I think I've already made it clear faith is personal however I've been I situations so many times where this has been a topic of discussion. As soon as I say yes I'm a Christian some Pagen is always wanting to tell me what a fool I am and the true goddess is mother nature etc etc etc.

 

Edited to make it more readable.

[neems 2,406]

Hail woden

Hail Woden

 

Yeah cause paganism is much easier to accept with witches and wise men with special healing powers dancing round a set of stones bollock naked worshiping mother nature and other green men.

"hail Hogwarts"

I dont think you understand much about the paganism our ancestors followed.

.

 

Perhaps not but that's probably to do with every pagen I have ever met seems to be an expert in why my religious beliefs are riduculas but fail to tell me EXACTLY what the Pagen belief is. When i ask "so tell me what you believe?" in It all gets met with a big smoke screen of god or gods, patriarchhal vs matriarchal different opinions depending who I'm talking to and I have asked this of several pagens I know.

Just to set the record straight about the bible, the new testament is not a book written by a guy in the desert but is a combined series of books (gospels) from several different peoples perspectives of what they witnessed. Just like if ten people went to a football match and sat in different parts of the stadium we would each give our account of what we saw from our perspective, this is a very crude explanation of the new testament.

It's interesting to note historically the apostles after the crucifixion went to all parts of the world to spread the message of the Christianity and what they had witnessed, almost all of them were tortured to death to denounce Christianity and not one of them would deny what they had seen. You'd think if it was all a bit of a story they might have said "oh hold on a minute I was only joking"

I said it before and wil say it again each must find their own path to travel

 

It's hard to explain to someone who hasn't taken time to study them,even more so someone who has been indoctrinated in Christianity.

There are pagans who literally believe Zeus or Thor is up in the clouds creating thunder being pulled along on his chariot by goats,or the world is literally a tree with witches living at the bottom of it,I think they usually call themselves asatruan.

There are feminists who call themselves Wiccan,who are probably just not yet got over the novelty that there exists a religion that doesn't oppress women,but can't seem to find balance and go the to the other extreme and thinks its acceptable to try and oppress men.

And there are people who view the stories about the European gods (Roman,Greek,Germanic,Scandinavian,Gaelic etc) as symbolic.

for example,Most of us agree the European gods are the same gods under different names,Thor is Zeus and Jupiter.

From the eddas we know Thor doesn't interfere with our lives directly,but protects us from the forces of nature,he has red hair and is the biggest and strongest god.

It also happens that Jupiter is the biggest planet in our solar system,its red and its magnetic fields have probably saved our planet from being more than once.

 

With all due respect mate I find it difficult how a Pagen can criticise Christianity and suggest how implausible it can be but can have no problem in believing in multiple gods plural.

If there are so many different versions of Paganism do Pagens argue who is right?

 

No there's no agenda.

Like I'm sure you know Christianity was forced on people to make them easier to rule,paganism evolved organically in our people,its our natural religion.

I think the majority would fit into the bottom category,so the gods are symbolic,they just represent nature,did you read the example at the bottom of my long winded post?

How do you know paganism wasn't forced upon people in exactly the same way when they were considered the mainstream of their day?

 

I know that I am genetically similar to my ancestors,and I have no urge to force any religion on anyone,but there aren't that many reliable records.

The whole concept of forcing a belief system on people seems contrary to what records we have.

We also know that when pagans settled they tended not to force religions on people.

The Romans

The Mongolians

The Vikings

Probably more too.

Genetics? You're also genetically similar to Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, Sikhs, Chimps, Gorillas, Fruit flies, bananas, etc.. Can't see wtf genetics has got to with your beliefs..

Genetics factor into how we view the world,Africans could not perceive the world as we do because they're not as intelligent as us on the whole.

 

East Asians don't view the world the same way as us because they don't empathise like us etc etc

 

Unlike the fanatical religions which actively forced/force people to convert,paganism in Europe evolved independently in sync with the minds of the European people.

[Malt 379]

 

Unlike the fanatical religions which actively forced/force people to convert,paganism in Europe evolved independently in sync with the minds of the European people.

Where's your proof?