Wheaton Terriers

[liamdelaney 2,586]

 

There's a big difference between the both, wheatens where bred to work mute for 6mins in very little space! Bulls where bred to better another dog in as much time as it took! Be it mins or hours and had plenty of room to do so, and its well known that bulls have bettered wheatens at there own job, but you never heard of the wheatens filling a bulls shoes! Or using wheaten blood to improve the bulls..

has bull blood improved the wheaten.

 

A bone of contention with a lot of people,but yes bull blood was used on NUMEROUS occasions to put sting into them.At that time we kept a lot of bulls and they were put to a lot of Wheatons,and that was just us,but most did not go shouting about it.

[leewalters 53]

my old dog would love to have another one

[Bryan 1,362]

 

Liamselaney was talking about bulls and I've seen some good drawing bulls that weren't mute

then they weren't GOOD BULLS pal if they were noisy. but hey whatever floats ye boat.

 

Like Women, the dog game? well "it's complicated"

 

guys on here are happy to talk in "Absolutes" about things they may not understand, but they've read about online or in a book, or guys that do understand but are too lazy to expand on here. They shouldn't be so quick to preach that a bull or wheaton making some noise should be destroyed or is worthless.

 

Liam Delaney has a lot to say on here of great value but I think Liam you're being a bit flippant and simplistic on this thread. There's fellas on here that are completely green, they've bought a dog online and "learned dogs" online. They've had no mentors, no uncle or neighbor to show them the subtleties of what a working dog is all about, what it is to hunt and just how difficult it can be to judge a dog.

 

Trial rules were just made up rules to create a "sport" for summer evenings. They weren't designed as a test of ability, gameness or usefulness when digging at that time without locators and mostly to sounders. You can have a dog that'll make noise everytime from out and out aggression, or frustration to get a good grip where's it's shoulders are held by the sides of the dig and they just can't get a telling hold or just make some noises.

You might also have a dog that takes it's time getting a hold to make sure the animal can't touch it, releases every hold where it gets a tiny bit of a bite but does all that in silence? and out of sight in a pocket???

 

EDRD July09 The Northsider had a little bit to say

"Geronimo", a lovely brindle and white staff, He was a dog you could never forget when you talk about strong dogs, arguably the best of his time. He was a loose rangey dog with a grand temprament, easy to handle. "Geronimo" was twice champion dog, twice runner up. I had the privilege to judge over him on several trials, as well as seen him work in the country and believe me the was no gamer dog.

 

( but he also disqualified geronimo for making noise in a trial, like i said "it's complicated")

[THE GENERAL 1,975]

That's true Bryan, but as Liam did say they are ment to be totally mute. Whether it's aggression, temper or just giving out, it still wasn't accepted and the dog was lifted either way.

[liamdelaney 2,586]

 

 

Liamselaney was talking about bulls and I've seen some good drawing bulls that weren't mute

then they weren't GOOD BULLS pal if they were noisy. but hey whatever floats ye boat.

 

Like Women, the dog game? well "it's complicated"

 

guys on here are happy to talk in "Absolutes" about things they may not understand, but they've read about online or in a book, or guys that do understand but are too lazy to expand on here. They shouldn't be so quick to preach that a bull or wheaton making some noise should be destroyed or is worthless.

 

Liam Delaney has a lot to say on here of great value but I think Liam you're being a bit flippant and simplistic on this thread. There's fellas on here that are completely green, they've bought a dog online and "learned dogs" online. They've had no mentors, no uncle or neighbor to show them the subtleties of what a working dog is all about, what it is to hunt and just how difficult it can be to judge a dog.

 

Trial rules were just made up rules to create a "sport" for summer evenings. They weren't designed as a test of ability, gameness or usefulness when digging at that time without locators and mostly to sounders. You can have a dog that'll make noise everytime from out and out aggression, or frustration to get a good grip where's it's shoulders are held by the sides of the dig and they just can't get a telling hold or just make some noises.

You might also have a dog that takes it's time getting a hold to make sure the animal can't touch it, releases every hold where it gets a tiny bit of a bite but does all that in silence? and out of sight in a pocket???

 

EDRD July09 The Northsider had a little bit to say

"Geronimo", a lovely brindle and white staff, He was a dog you could never forget when you talk about strong dogs, arguably the best of his time. He was a loose rangey dog with a grand temprament, easy to handle. "Geronimo" was twice champion dog, twice runner up. I had the privilege to judge over him on several trials, as well as seen him work in the country and believe me the was no gamer dog.

 

( but he also disqualified geronimo for making noise in a trial, like i said "it's complicated")

 

I take your point Bryan,a lot of people new to the game could make mistakes with a dog making what we used to call a working sound(many judges did two)he might give a grunt out the side of his mouth(his mouth is full)or such little noises ( they got banned as well).But roaring and shouting whether low or high only signifies one thing he is yellow.,As for dogs getting stuck by the shoulders and such or letting go for a better grip or because he got a nip,many many years ago I seen a dog bred down from Samson Of Arno stuff going in to draw with only his arse sticking out,every few seconds he gave a peculiar shake when the hole was widened to give him more room it was discovered a badger was in a side pipe chewing his ribs but he never squealed or made a sound,another time I was in a house talking dogs when we went out into the yard two dogs had got out by mistake(Badgerlea Dambuster stuff) and were in a bad way from fighting but we never heard a sound inside the window,because they made none.

[col100 4]

i think theres good and bad in both breeds and my opion if worth anything is the wheaton was used for a different type off work to the bull greyhound and very popular in irland

[liamdelaney 2,586]

 

 

 

Liamselaney was talking about bulls and I've seen some good drawing bulls that weren't mute

then they weren't GOOD BULLS pal if they were noisy. but hey whatever floats ye boat.

 

Like Women, the dog game? well "it's complicated"

 

guys on here are happy to talk in "Absolutes" about things they may not understand, but they've read about online or in a book, or guys that do understand but are too lazy to expand on here. They shouldn't be so quick to preach that a bull or wheaton making some noise should be destroyed or is worthless.

 

Liam Delaney has a lot to say on here of great value but I think Liam you're being a bit flippant and simplistic on this thread. There's fellas on here that are completely green, they've bought a dog online and "learned dogs" online. They've had no mentors, no uncle or neighbor to show them the subtleties of what a working dog is all about, what it is to hunt and just how difficult it can be to judge a dog.

 

Trial rules were just made up rules to create a "sport" for summer evenings. They weren't designed as a test of ability, gameness or usefulness when digging at that time without locators and mostly to sounders. You can have a dog that'll make noise everytime from out and out aggression, or frustration to get a good grip where's it's shoulders are held by the sides of the dig and they just can't get a telling hold or just make some noises.

You might also have a dog that takes it's time getting a hold to make sure the animal can't touch it, releases every hold where it gets a tiny bit of a bite but does all that in silence? and out of sight in a pocket???

 

EDRD July09 The Northsider had a little bit to say

"Geronimo", a lovely brindle and white staff, He was a dog you could never forget when you talk about strong dogs, arguably the best of his time. He was a loose rangey dog with a grand temprament, easy to handle. "Geronimo" was twice champion dog, twice runner up. I had the privilege to judge over him on several trials, as well as seen him work in the country and believe me the was no gamer dog.

 

( but he also disqualified geronimo for making noise in a trial, like i said "it's complicated")

 

I take your point Bryan,a lot of people new to the game could make mistakes with a dog making what we used to call a working sound(many judges did two)he might give a grunt out the side of his mouth(his mouth is full)or such little noises ( they got banned as well).But roaring and shouting whether low or high only signifies one thing he is yellow.,As for dogs getting stuck by the shoulders and such or letting go for a better grip or because he got a nip,many many years ago I seen a dog bred down from Samson Of Arno stuff going in to draw with only his arse sticking out,every few seconds he gave a peculiar shake when the hole was widened to give him more room it was discovered a badger was in a side pipe chewing his ribs but he never squealed or made a sound,another time I was in a house talking dogs when we went out into the yard two dogs had got out by mistake(Badgerlea Dambuster stuff) and were in a bad way from fighting but we never heard a sound inside the window,because they made none.

 

Just to add trials or better still flappers that lads had among themselves,were not looked on as some little game to punch in a few hours of boredom,this pass time was taking very very serious by the people involved.As for a good certified dog getting lifted by a particular judge,some times it was politics,more times the dog was not fit on the day or was on an off day(shit happens)But the bottom line was and STILL SHOULD BE if he starts tearing the house down he is not much(especially for breeding)They ARE good enough for young lads messing around at a hole on a Sunday morning.To each there own.

[BIG G wheton machine 1,594]

 

 

 

 

Liamselaney was talking about bulls and I've seen some good drawing bulls that weren't mute

then they weren't GOOD BULLS pal if they were noisy. but hey whatever floats ye boat.

 

Like Women, the dog game? well "it's complicated"

 

guys on here are happy to talk in "Absolutes" about things they may not understand, but they've read about online or in a book, or guys that do understand but are too lazy to expand on here. They shouldn't be so quick to preach that a bull or wheaton making some noise should be destroyed or is worthless.

 

Liam Delaney has a lot to say on here of great value but I think Liam you're being a bit flippant and simplistic on this thread. There's fellas on here that are completely green, they've bought a dog online and "learned dogs" online. They've had no mentors, no uncle or neighbor to show them the subtleties of what a working dog is all about, what it is to hunt and just how difficult it can be to judge a dog.

 

Trial rules were just made up rules to create a "sport" for summer evenings. They weren't designed as a test of ability, gameness or usefulness when digging at that time without locators and mostly to sounders. You can have a dog that'll make noise everytime from out and out aggression, or frustration to get a good grip where's it's shoulders are held by the sides of the dig and they just can't get a telling hold or just make some noises.

You might also have a dog that takes it's time getting a hold to make sure the animal can't touch it, releases every hold where it gets a tiny bit of a bite but does all that in silence? and out of sight in a pocket???

 

EDRD July09 The Northsider had a little bit to say

"Geronimo", a lovely brindle and white staff, He was a dog you could never forget when you talk about strong dogs, arguably the best of his time. He was a loose rangey dog with a grand temprament, easy to handle. "Geronimo" was twice champion dog, twice runner up. I had the privilege to judge over him on several trials, as well as seen him work in the country and believe me the was no gamer dog.

 

( but he also disqualified geronimo for making noise in a trial, like i said "it's complicated")

 

I take your point Bryan,a lot of people new to the game could make mistakes with a dog making what we used to call a working sound(many judges did two)he might give a grunt out the side of his mouth(his mouth is full)or such little noises ( they got banned as well).But roaring and shouting whether low or high only signifies one thing he is yellow.,As for dogs getting stuck by the shoulders and such or letting go for a better grip or because he got a nip,many many years ago I seen a dog bred down from Samson Of Arno stuff going in to draw with only his arse sticking out,every few seconds he gave a peculiar shake when the hole was widened to give him more room it was discovered a badger was in a side pipe chewing his ribs but he never squealed or made a sound,another time I was in a house talking dogs when we went out into the yard two dogs had got out by mistake(Badgerlea Dambuster stuff) and were in a bad way from fighting but we never heard a sound inside the window,because they made none.

 

Just to add trials or better still flappers that lads had among themselves,were not looked on as some little game to punch in a few hours of boredom,this pass time was taking very very serious by the people involved.As for a good certified dog getting lifted by a particular judge,some times it was politics,more times the dog was not fit on the day or was on an off day(shit happens)But the bottom line was and STILL SHOULD BE if he starts tearing the house down he is not much(especially for breeding)They ARE good enough for young lads messing around at a hole on a Sunday morning.To each there own.

 

theres good points from both the posters. liam you and bolio and carlovian are men id take advice off for strong dogs. as we say up here whn we slip the lurchrs on quarry if they dance round it barking like mad then they bounced it. (didn't want to know) everybody whos got experience knows the difference between working noise and cowerdice.

[liamdelaney 2,586]

 

 

 

 

 

Liamselaney was talking about bulls and I've seen some good drawing bulls that weren't mute

then they weren't GOOD BULLS pal if they were noisy. but hey whatever floats ye boat.

 

Like Women, the dog game? well "it's complicated"

 

guys on here are happy to talk in "Absolutes" about things they may not understand, but they've read about online or in a book, or guys that do understand but are too lazy to expand on here. They shouldn't be so quick to preach that a bull or wheaton making some noise should be destroyed or is worthless.

 

Liam Delaney has a lot to say on here of great value but I think Liam you're being a bit flippant and simplistic on this thread. There's fellas on here that are completely green, they've bought a dog online and "learned dogs" online. They've had no mentors, no uncle or neighbor to show them the subtleties of what a working dog is all about, what it is to hunt and just how difficult it can be to judge a dog.

 

Trial rules were just made up rules to create a "sport" for summer evenings. They weren't designed as a test of ability, gameness or usefulness when digging at that time without locators and mostly to sounders. You can have a dog that'll make noise everytime from out and out aggression, or frustration to get a good grip where's it's shoulders are held by the sides of the dig and they just can't get a telling hold or just make some noises.

You might also have a dog that takes it's time getting a hold to make sure the animal can't touch it, releases every hold where it gets a tiny bit of a bite but does all that in silence? and out of sight in a pocket???

 

EDRD July09 The Northsider had a little bit to say

"Geronimo", a lovely brindle and white staff, He was a dog you could never forget when you talk about strong dogs, arguably the best of his time. He was a loose rangey dog with a grand temprament, easy to handle. "Geronimo" was twice champion dog, twice runner up. I had the privilege to judge over him on several trials, as well as seen him work in the country and believe me the was no gamer dog.

 

( but he also disqualified geronimo for making noise in a trial, like i said "it's complicated")

 

I take your point Bryan,a lot of people new to the game could make mistakes with a dog making what we used to call a working sound(many judges did two)he might give a grunt out the side of his mouth(his mouth is full)or such little noises ( they got banned as well).But roaring and shouting whether low or high only signifies one thing he is yellow.,As for dogs getting stuck by the shoulders and such or letting go for a better grip or because he got a nip,many many years ago I seen a dog bred down from Samson Of Arno stuff going in to draw with only his arse sticking out,every few seconds he gave a peculiar shake when the hole was widened to give him more room it was discovered a badger was in a side pipe chewing his ribs but he never squealed or made a sound,another time I was in a house talking dogs when we went out into the yard two dogs had got out by mistake(Badgerlea Dambuster stuff) and were in a bad way from fighting but we never heard a sound inside the window,because they made none.

 

Just to add trials or better still flappers that lads had among themselves,were not looked on as some little game to punch in a few hours of boredom,this pass time was taking very very serious by the people involved.As for a good certified dog getting lifted by a particular judge,some times it was politics,more times the dog was not fit on the day or was on an off day(shit happens)But the bottom line was and STILL SHOULD BE if he starts tearing the house down he is not much(especially for breeding)They ARE good enough for young lads messing around at a hole on a Sunday morning.To each there own.

 

theres good points from both the posters. liam you and bolio and carlovian are men id take advice off for strong dogs. as we say up here whn we slip the lurchrs on quarry if they dance round it barking like mad then they bounced it. (didn't want to know) everybody whos got experience knows the difference between working noise and cowerdice.

 

They do Big g but as Bryan pointed out a lot of guys starting out can get it wrong thru inexperience or listening to me bullshitting. LOL

[BIG G wheton machine 1,594]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Liamselaney was talking about bulls and I've seen some good drawing bulls that weren't mute

then they weren't GOOD BULLS pal if they were noisy. but hey whatever floats ye boat.

 

Like Women, the dog game? well "it's complicated"

 

guys on here are happy to talk in "Absolutes" about things they may not understand, but they've read about online or in a book, or guys that do understand but are too lazy to expand on here. They shouldn't be so quick to preach that a bull or wheaton making some noise should be destroyed or is worthless.

 

Liam Delaney has a lot to say on here of great value but I think Liam you're being a bit flippant and simplistic on this thread. There's fellas on here that are completely green, they've bought a dog online and "learned dogs" online. They've had no mentors, no uncle or neighbor to show them the subtleties of what a working dog is all about, what it is to hunt and just how difficult it can be to judge a dog.

 

Trial rules were just made up rules to create a "sport" for summer evenings. They weren't designed as a test of ability, gameness or usefulness when digging at that time without locators and mostly to sounders. You can have a dog that'll make noise everytime from out and out aggression, or frustration to get a good grip where's it's shoulders are held by the sides of the dig and they just can't get a telling hold or just make some noises.

You might also have a dog that takes it's time getting a hold to make sure the animal can't touch it, releases every hold where it gets a tiny bit of a bite but does all that in silence? and out of sight in a pocket???

 

EDRD July09 The Northsider had a little bit to say

"Geronimo", a lovely brindle and white staff, He was a dog you could never forget when you talk about strong dogs, arguably the best of his time. He was a loose rangey dog with a grand temprament, easy to handle. "Geronimo" was twice champion dog, twice runner up. I had the privilege to judge over him on several trials, as well as seen him work in the country and believe me the was no gamer dog.

 

( but he also disqualified geronimo for making noise in a trial, like i said "it's complicated")

 

I take your point Bryan,a lot of people new to the game could make mistakes with a dog making what we used to call a working sound(many judges did two)he might give a grunt out the side of his mouth(his mouth is full)or such little noises ( they got banned as well).But roaring and shouting whether low or high only signifies one thing he is yellow.,As for dogs getting stuck by the shoulders and such or letting go for a better grip or because he got a nip,many many years ago I seen a dog bred down from Samson Of Arno stuff going in to draw with only his arse sticking out,every few seconds he gave a peculiar shake when the hole was widened to give him more room it was discovered a badger was in a side pipe chewing his ribs but he never squealed or made a sound,another time I was in a house talking dogs when we went out into the yard two dogs had got out by mistake(Badgerlea Dambuster stuff) and were in a bad way from fighting but we never heard a sound inside the window,because they made none.

 

Just to add trials or better still flappers that lads had among themselves,were not looked on as some little game to punch in a few hours of boredom,this pass time was taking very very serious by the people involved.As for a good certified dog getting lifted by a particular judge,some times it was politics,more times the dog was not fit on the day or was on an off day(shit happens)But the bottom line was and STILL SHOULD BE if he starts tearing the house down he is not much(especially for breeding)They ARE good enough for young lads messing around at a hole on a Sunday morning.To each there own.

 

theres good points from both the posters. liam you and bolio and carlovian are men id take advice off for strong dogs. as we say up here whn we slip the lurchrs on quarry if they dance round it barking like mad then they bounced it. (didn't want to know) everybody whos got experience knows the difference between working noise and cowerdice.

 

They do Big g but as Bryan pointed out a lot of guys starting out can get it wrong thru inexperience or listening to me bullshitting. LOL

 

anno laim, youd think the name strong dogs would give a clue whats expected of the dogs, as barking at the quarry like a hound or bayer terrier doesn't need strength. strong dog to me would mean one whos boss, or gets the job done without fuss. not mocking anybody as I had to learn myself, but anybody that looks at the anatomy of a strong dog is bound to see a dog bred for a purpose and that's not barking in fear of its quarry. just my opinion

[Nick 14]

With noiseless are we talking about not barking as Big G mentions or also about the excitement sounds as seen by over enthousiastic dogs? And if the later is also the case why is that? Function or just a preference?

[darencross 72]

hi all has anyone got any pics of stronge dogs i.e wheatens /bulls working old days and present days thanks to u all

[Carlovian 583]

All the dogs entered at a trials would be proven experenced dogs... all the dogs would qualify ...thats why the rules ware so strict... the dog had 1 minute to travel the 40 foot shute with at least one false branch off, and a couple of 45 degree turns, and reach the badger there was three judges from different clubs...ears to the ground listing ...if a dog dog gave the slighest growl, yelp, bark ...the judge would lift his hand up...if two judges of the three lifted their hands up the dog was disqualified, .. the dog would have to work in silence for the futher 6 minutes to qualify...

[snizle06 202]

Does that mean if he made noise but then went silent for a full 6 mins without any noise he passed ?

[darencross 72]

the dogs probley had to be silent from the word go or they where probley lifted and not aload to enter that what i would think snizle06