Ireland F.a.o. Danny300 And Fakename

[AlbertJ 569]

My final post on this matter :

 

1. I do not set myself up on a pedestal to know everything about all sports - my sports are shooting, gundogs and stalking and I have a fair and up to date grasp of the law as it relates to these sports. I am a graduate biologist and have published academic papers in the green marketing and environmental areas so I can and have debated with animal rights people on the basis of sound environmental credentials. When I was editor of the magazine I tried to keep us with all legislation concerning countrysports and keep abreast of any major threats to them. BUT we always had experts involved from the various sports to offer specialist advice. Since I gave over the editorship of the magazine - HANDS UP - I haven't followed every bit of legislation except where I felt I could make a contribution i.e over tail docking which I did to help get included for terriers - although Barrie Wade tipped me off and provided the material for me to circulate to MLAs. The credit and work here was really all Barrie's!

 

2. Other than ratting with my dogs as a boy I have not hunted with dogs and do not claim to be an expert but over the past few years I have supported the working terrier & lurcher shows and met and enjoyed the craic with a lot of good people. I see that these sports are the most under threat and that is why I welcomed and supported the formation of the IWTF and the NILRC as bodies that could unite terrier and lurcher enthusiasts whether they work, work/show or just show/race their dogs into a cohesive unit to work with others to defend their sports. We have also supported hunting with hounds strongly - again an area under most threat.This support for hunting with dogs has brought us strongly to the attention of ICAB - the Irish Campaign Against Bloodsports- who have written to our exhibitors, sponsors, advertisers and Tourist Boards attempting to get them to withdraw support from us - mainly using terrier & lurcher and hunting imagery of dead and bleeding animals but also using the digging championship against us. ICAB people read and monitor these forums and use images from them to encourage the public to come out against them. That is why I can understand Ian's point about the image of the dogs & fox - such images when used by ICAB and other people do not play well with the public. We should not being giving ICAB extra ammunition. Danny I thought your other pic of a great looking dog anyone would be proud to own made your point better.

 

3. When Ian put up the point that Nigel was talking about the challenge being on hare - at the back of my mind was a thought that this could be illegal and to cover myself against the charge that ICAB could bring of me knowing about and not condemning an illegal activity I queried the legality of this - should have said and really intended to say ( illegal?) as I hadn't taken the time to check. Rather than make a bald statement.

 

4. After some research what the discussion did throw up was :

 

(a) Since 2011, the irish Hare no longer does have the Special Protection it had in NI under annual orders up to 2010 and now simply comes under the game laws and like the Brown Hare may be hunted during the game season from 12 August to 31 January. BUT not at night. Someone said the Brown Hare could be hunted all year round - which I don't think is right- but I stand to be corrected - the PSNI advice on hunting hares does not distinguish between them. So Nigel's challenge on hare could be ' illegal' unless it took place in daylight after 12 August.

 

( The Wildlife Order 38 (4) Does NOT only preclude hare coursing events such as the larger events which were organised but would appear to preclude the sort of challenge if it was to take place on hares: i.e it specifically defines and bans separately to the main clauses on organised coursing :

" A “ hare coursing event” is a competition in which dogs are, by the use of live hares, assessed as to skill in hunting hares."

So technically a challenge being a competition of skill to run on hares would be 'illegal' especially if it is publicly published as such.

 

© Although as I have said I have had my ups and downs with Ian over the years I stand by our decision to have him judge at Birr - I consider him to be a fair judge and a man of integrity. No one complained about him judging at Birr until this argument. If you read what he actually said - he did not criticise people who work their dogs on anything merely said in his opinion it took a harder dog to work on foxes and that he disagreed with posting the image.

 

5. Hands up again - like most sporting people I like a challenge and this initially caught my interest but like so many challenges the 'devil is in the detail' . Nigel through Ian said 'in the field' - Danny took it up as on foxes. Obviously in a challenge each person wishes to take the challenge on to their own ground and so both Danny and Nigel had the right to state what quarry they would like. I publicly applauded Danny for 'having the balls' to take up the challenge and being prepared to risk £500 even to a good cause.. BUT on reflection I thought this was simply not going to happen and just restart the whole show /racing v working arguments rather than keeping the fraternity united, so I thought we might run something at the fair in a way that we settled a similar gundog challenge.

 

The offer still stands - thats were I came in a genuine offer to settle this matter in a fun way that could both entertain and perhaps inform as to the different types of dogs chosen by different lurcher owners and to demonstrate to a lot of people that there is more that unites them than divides them. And that is where I exit this thread - the offer is still on the table and I would hope the matter can be resolved amicably by both men picking it up.

 

Albertj

Edited May 5, 2013 by AlbertJ

[nans pat 2,575]

Runnig a hare in the north legal .

[Chid 6,805]

 

 

 

 

 

Mr Scent,

 

I think if you check what Ian said he was stating that there is a difference between a dog used on hare ( illegal) and rabbit and one used on foxes. At Birr he is judging dogs on conformation NOT working ability or speed . As i said although I have had my differences with Ian over the years I consider him to be a man of integrity who will judge fairly. That is all you can ask of any judge.

 

Albert

 

i think if you check, you will see running hares is still perfectly legal in ireland, north and south. this thread and the others say a lot about these shows and the people that you have involved with them. So far removed from the working dog culture in this country, yet put yourselves on a pedestal as a champion for fieldsports.

 

I don't set myself up as champion of anything other than running Game Fairs! But I do what I can wherever I can to support, promote and defend all legal country sports!

 

tell us how you manage to do that when you didn't even know hunting hares is still legal

 

I don't claim to know everything that's why we have experts writing on subjects in the magazine - hands up got this wrong because of the amendment that was brought to the wildlife order and the scarcity of brown hares I don't know anyone who shoots hares now.

 

The point I was making was that different dogs would have different ability on different quarry.

 

brown hares have no protection at all same as grey squrril you can control them anytime year

 

neither hare as protection in the north , but they both have a season .. brown and irish hare can only be hunted from the 12th of august - 31st of january

[kegs 40]

danny youve very dirty knees for a hare man lol. lads keep it clean with the pics on here as there a good few planks about. if you dont like a show then dont go thats me now and its easier lol. albert i say you should dig in the competition this year just for the craic lol

[BIG G wheton machine 1,594]

Fox hunting is one thing..but putting that picture up is a disgrace...I personally want nothing More to do with this post..no one needs to do that to prove anything

anno imagine that dirty ole fox lying there like a whore showing his willy winky like that in public fecking foxy saville . lol somebody stick under pants on it ffs

[AlbertJ 569]

danny youve very dirty knees for a hare man lol. lads keep it clean with the pics on here as there a good few planks about. if you dont like a show then dont go thats me now and its easier lol. albert i say you should dig in the competition this year just for the craic lol

 

Funny enough I had been saying to our PR team that I should 'cut the first sod' in the competition to wind the ICAB people up - they implied the digging competition showed the cruelty promoted by the fair - the poor old tea chests looked terribly sad being buried! Seriously I do love to dig ( at my own pace) with several projects on the way here including I have planted over 100 trees and bushes in soil similar to Mourne! My Xmas presents always include tools -picks, spades, shovels, mattocks - I have a great collection! The one I have never mastered is the long tail! But having seen and admired the skill and the sheer stamina of the teams including the winning team, I think the hole I migght be digging could be my last! Great competition and delighted Tango decided to take the final to Birr. Certainly hope to get to Mourne and two Shanes or Birr tickets to each of the teams entered at Mourne.

[tango 221]

sure we cant let icab down ill even paint a spade gold for the picture lol,see you at the mourne and thanks for the support under the hassle.

[lurchers ireland 367]

sorry to go off topic slightly but is it now legal in northern ireland to hunt hares with lurchers, to head out with your lurcher to a farm and

run a hare

[lurcher330 2,301]

Danny,,dead foxes don't run

Edited May 7, 2013 by lurcher330

[AlbertJ 569]

LurchersIreland

 

I had at the back of my mind that it was illegal but having been roundly and justifiably battered verbally for suggesting this I have found out about the current position :

 

Since 2011, the Irish Hare no longer does have the Special Protection it had in NI under annual protection orders up to 2010 and now simply comes under the game laws and like the Brown Hare may be hunted during the game season from 12 August to 31 January. BUT not at night.

 

Obviously the landowners' permission would have to be sought and I don't think many would give this because most farmers are like my neighbouring guy who just last night said it was great to see them coming back.. Also public discussions of hares being hunted or photographs of dogs hunting them would not play well with the public and could open up the whole hunting with dogs debate again to our detriment.

 

http://www.psni.police.uk/wildlifeandthelaw.pdf gives the simplest advice that I could find on the law relating to this.

[lurchers ireland 367]

thanks for the swift reply, i know in my area in the south hare numbers are still down, talking to the farmers they said the biggest problem is no longer poachers netting but

lads who they have caught lamping them that know no better ,usually with their first lurchers and the attiude kill anything they can anyway they can, most hare populations in areas would be plenty strong if given fairplay and hunted in season.

[young man 225]

Yea well I would agree with lurchers ireland! But also farmers cutting silage so much is killing levrets (babey hare) in the grass.. But Ill hold my hands up I've lamped a hare! But its not a good hunt! Might aswell go lamp a rabbits!

[fat man 4,741]

In and around my local area the hare seems to be making a good come back and it is mainly due to the local coursing club who police the area against illigal coursing.I have personally seen gangs of lads with lurchers sliping 3-4 dogs on a hare so what chance has it got.These gangs are not local or not into proper coursing with there lurchers.They have been told to stay away by the local club and also the cops and wildlife officer but they give little heed to anyone including the farmers that own the land.I am not knocking the genuine lurcher lads,i keep a lurcher myself and have done for many years but its these pricks that give every lurcher man a bad name,they even have some of the farmers scared for there livelyhood with threats of all sorts.There is nothing wrong with any man running a hare given fair law with his or her lurcher but what these other lads are at is pure carnage.

[nans pat 2,575]

If your on permission it doesnt matter what the public think .the countrys full of hares.its legit so dont worry about em.