the way the staffies really are......given a chance

[scothunter 12,609]

It's got me thinking this topic. Surely you being the one feeding it, or throwing it what you don't want. Would make you in the eyes if that dig the master. It relys on you feeding it. Taking it out, caring for its injury etc.

I see lads doing it with bones, granted not lurcher men. My thinking is, if I didn't want you to have the bone you woukdnt have f*****g gotten it in first place. But like I said I'm no dog behaviouralist I seem to form a bond with my dogs, and the understanding don't bother me when I'm eating and ill return the gesture lol

[northern lad 2,292]

I have a good bond with my dogs SH wether this is despite or because of my behavior I dont know,but my dogs have always been respectful of me and mine,my kids grew up knowing never to take liberties with any animals,they were taught to respect them.I dont think reinforcing the hieracy is "mentally breaking" a dog down,but each to their own....a dog showing me aggression over food would never have been shown the door,it would be corrected and encouraged not to,in much the same way a dog that will not sit,lie,stay would be trained to do so.....cant see the difference really

[Born Hunter 17,907]

Suppose the dog gets hold of something it shouldn't and starts to devour it, if the animal thinks that it can face you down when it is eating what are you going to do? If it's okay for the dog to square up to you over a bone is it okay with it's kennel as well? What happens when you need to change it's bedding? I understand what you are saying but aggressive possesiveness is something I wouldn't tollerate. A dog snapping after taking any amount of shit like tail pulling and generally being overly man handled is fair enough but aggressive possesiveness towards me isn't.

 

We,re not talking about changing bedding we,re talking about feeding..............the one time of the day a dog gets to be " a dog " within the home environment and im going to come along and say " no stop that behaviour right now "........no way.

I believe you can use a dogs intelligence both for and against you i dont feel i need to break a dog down mentally to get his respect.....if a dog doesnt have the intelligence in the first place to be able to give up a possession then he wont be around long anyway.......but giving up on his dinner,no i wont make a dog do that i dont think its necessary.

 

I don't feel I need to break a dog down mentally either gnasher and I don't think a dog aggressively protecting it's food (or anything for that matter) from me is a just a dog being a dog. Licking it's arse and chasing cats is imo a dog just being a dog, bearing it's teeth to me and following through with a bite because I'm around it while it's eating is a dog being a c**t! Again IMO. We just have different expectations of a dog, all the discussion in the world isn't gonna change that mate. I'm not saying you are wrong, but I don't follow your logic as you don't mine. Just passing my thoughts on the matter.

[gnasher16 31,122]

Gnasher,training a dog to lie on its back for 30 seconds would be a foolish party trick,I do not see letting the dog know I am the boss as humiliating,if and when I take the dogs food they immeadiatly sit and wait ,until I decide to give it them back,they are neither frightened or humiliated,they just accept it.Can I just point out I might not do this for 6 months,I may do it twice a week,just my way......

 

Training/forcing a dog to lie on its back for 30 seconds is every bit as unnatural as giving a dog its food then taking it away half way through eating it...........they are both pointless acts that prove absolutely nothing.........dogs dont rationalise like people do.....he,s not saying " well ok i see your point i,ll let you take my food and i,ll do what you say when you say it because you are the big chief "..............if need be i could make a dog stand perfectly still over a 24 hour period.....have i proved im the big chief ? of course i havent ive just pushed my dog to the limit of his loyalty for my own amusement.............a dogs loyalty can be pushed and pulled to our hearts content but when the heat gets turned up a dog will revert to nature..... not to what he has learned through hours in the classroom.

Each to their own but i prefer a dog to please me because he wants to please me not because he has to.....hence there are some things i wouldnt expect or ask him to do.

[northern lad 2,292]

Breaking a dog to livestock is surely the most unnatural thing anybody could do?but it must be done,making a dog walk to heel on a lead must also be considered as unnatural.....again it must be done.I dont run round swinging my dick shouting "whos the daddy"with the dogs meals in my hands and I certainly dont do it for my own or others amusement,different people ,different ways

Edited October 28, 2012 by northern lad

[gnasher16 31,122]

Breaking a dog to livestock is surely the most unnatural thing anybody could do?but it must be done,making a dog walk to heel on a lead must also be considered as unnatural.....again it must be done.I dont run round swinging my dick shouting "whos the daddy"with the dogs meals in my hands and I certainly dont do it for my own or others amusement,different people ,different ways

 

Breaking a dog to livestock....walking to heel on a lead......are everyday occurences any dog anywhere is going to experience so there is reason to it............what everyday occurence causes the necessity to take a dogs food away halfway through eating it.................walking to heel can hardly be compared to stopping eating midway through for unnaturallness ( if thats a word )......................different people different ways is right....im not saying im right and your wrong ive just always found the inside of a dogs mind fascinating......and in my experience getting the best from a dog doesnt involve " being the boss " or " the pack leader " and all the other silly phrases people use......enjoyed reading your thoughts anyhow

Edited October 28, 2012 by gnasher16

[Rake aboot 4,936]

My dogs are trained to sit and wait for me to command them to eat. They will stay and wait until I let them eat and this is something I have done to reinforce my place in the hierarchy. I allow them to eat therefore I am alpha ( or whatever you want to call it). Helps with training

 

But.

 

I never take the food back off them, there is no need for it , so why do it. I have no doubt I could with no issue, but whats the point.?

 

Party tricks don`t produce good workers.

 

I can maybe see where people think maybe a child might remove the food so the dog has to be steady etc, but tbh, you should be feeding the dogs away from kids, and kids should be taught never to remove food from the dog.

[northern lad 2,292]

I allways make them sit and wait for their food,cant be doing with dogs jumping all over me and whining for their grub,whilst my kids were told never to take the dogs food of them whilst eating,if I was stuck in work I could ring home and ask one of my daughters or wife to feed the dogs without worry(my youngest is13).I have never allowed either of my kids to walk the dogs without me,but I do expect them to be able to live in the house with the dogs without any fear or trepidation

[The Duncan 802]

some dangerous misinformation about taking food off large dogs as if it some sort of proof of your pack leadership, in some cases bitch's can take food off dogs, little dogs off big dogs and so on, possession is 9/10's of the law in a dogs mind and in a lot of cases it comes down too who ever wants it more,

 

i make the pup come into my space to eat from the very start, so in that case he is actually taking food from me, does it make him pack leader ?? does it f**k, it leaves him with a completely calm frame of mind around people and food, a lot of aggression comes from fear ,

Well, no. He is being given food by the pack leader, not taking it from him without permission. If you decided he couldn't take food from you when he was in your space, there wouldn't be a problem would there?

It really isn't a big deal. The pack leader is the empowerer as well as the authority. Lets not misconceive this as some kind of macho 'I'm the head honcho' bravado. It's just a natural part of being a pack leader.

No-ones saying you need to rule dogs with an iron fist and brutality, just that the dog(s) need to know where they stand in the pecking order to feel content.

I don't see the ability to intercept a dogs food if necessary as a stamp of authority, but it would be rare that a true pack leaders will would not prevail without contest.

PS/edit - The size of a dog should make no difference in how you handle it - I treat my 150lb Ridgeback just as I would my 20lb patterdale.

[neems 2,406]

you can see it stresses any dog when you take food off them,but for them to bite me over something like that isn't something i'd tolerate.

[northern lad 2,292]

Mine dont show any sign of stress when food is removed ,they just sit ,wag their tails and wait.....just to add they do sometimes jump up at visitors for a fuss which drives me mad dont want to come across as a smart arse with perfectly trained dogs

[chris k 205]

ive always been raised to believe theres no such thing as a bad dog just bad owners

[jigsaw 11,902]

well havent I opened a can of worms,interesting debate though.I dont understand why anyone would want to take food back from a dog unless he/she was eating too much at one siting.On the odd occassion one of my bull terriers got loose and went into the shed with realms of meat about,there never was an issue with any of them being removed from the source.I never once had a dog of any breed turn and growl even if I had to take his grub from him.I dont see the point in this action anyway.Just feed the dog and let him enjoy his meal undisturbed.why need to ''TEST'' the animal?

[dogs-n-natives 1,182]

I'm with the lads who like a dog that will never show aggression towards any human, no matter what the scenario. I disagree with gnasher, he reckons this means your dominating the dog all the time, and it is a cowering wreck or something, this is so far from the truth, all it takes is adequate socializing as a pup, and never let the possessiveness over food or toys or anything else develop in the first place, as a whelp a dog wont behave in that way, it is all behavior that the dog develops as it gets older. I often sit the pup on my lap and feed it, or make a fuss when feeding, take bowl away, put it back,let the kids feed the pup bit at a time, this also helps training, as you can incorporate sit/stay/wait etc... Gnasher... its the opposite from being a domineering owner, its more like conditioning a young dog so that it feels meals are not something it has to defend with a growl, or at worst its teeth. It enjoys its meals and feels no need whatsoever to defend it.

i love the staffies, and staying on the topic of the thread, they can be the best natured family dogs going, as well as loyal and keen working dogs.

Good post Jigsaw, and cracking pics

[gnasher16 31,122]

Many years ago i owned an old bulldog who looking back was a pretty poor dog in what she was bred for.....yet she was the most nastiest and predatory animal ive ever seen before or since........she didnt want to just fight a dog she wanted to literally drag it away and eat it........trying to get her away was a task in itself......yet i could take food off her blindfolded..........other dogs ive seen and owned were great working dogs but you wouldnt want to try taking their food away,now these dogs were kept in kennel runs with absolutely no danger of anybody coming to harm via the food problem..........so being excellent working dogs who in every area of life were top notch dogs why would you get rid of them just because they were possessive around food.

I think some people strive too hard to dominate a dog needlessly.....i was never interested in pet and family dogs so didnt pay too much attention to all the Barbara Woodhouse silly theories of " empowering " and " pack leader " stuff you learn out of books......i used to learn from the dog standing in front of me and use common sense in my approach to an individual dog.....too many people approach the training and bonding with a dog like its a standard counselling exercise thats the same for any dog of any breed........just like people dogs are individuals and all respond differently to different outlooks...........one of the most rewarding aspects of dogs for me was forming a tight bond with a dog someone else couldnt .