what lines do u think are the best??

[fish 148]

the proper terriers pre ban would work anything put in front of them this thing off keeping them off foxes i think was pure nonsense granted some were a little big for regular work too them but most off the old timers that i ve spoken too did nt get big numbers of fox too there dogs simply because they were nt looking for them and when they did come on them there dogs dealt with them with relish .

 

 

they would work anything mate but the fact is they where big strong dogs and i said earlier nearly lost one to a fox not due to the dog but to the size he probally took constant strikes just digging to get to it so its not the case they couldnt deal with it plus like you say wasnt looking for them

fair point hack but it was nt because of the fox itself it was because of the circumstance the dog found itself in and because it was a determine worker that worked too a far superior animal most of the time the fact of being so close yet so far from the fox it probably got so excited it forgot the way in which it usually worked and threw caution too the wind bit like an excited child opening presents on a christmas morning

[hack 301]

quick question pre ban was breeding from a fox only bitch frowned on by the lads that dug the bigger game as i ve talked too a few old timers that stated they d only breed from a bitch that worked all game and that lads breeding from fox only bitches were contributing too the poor standard of some of the terriers being produced .

 

Pre-ban a bitch that only worked fox would not be kept in my experience,

Some of these bitches (and dogs) would be handed down to hunt terrier men.

If they bred from these bitches it was for there own use.

They had no problem using baying/bolting terriers. To say that these men weakened the terriers we have today

might be overstating things.

There were 2 grades of terrier for 2 types of quarry.

I agree with Fat man that badger dogs were kept away from fox.

I have seen several occasions where a small earth stinking of fox would be skipped over.

We were after different quarry and would not spend the time at these earths. Most (but not all) of the dogs I came across that worked badger would have had some bull in there breeding.

If they would not kill a fox (or make a dammed good attempt) there would have been some raised eyebrows around the dig.

We did dig fox on occasion, I thought they were a good test for any dog. But there was a difference.

JMO

 

couldnt agree more i gave a few dogs away myself but know i look back was that the right thing to do maybe not

[Guest dee mac]

here s one lads i know of a pre ban dog that was dug in all the testing places. dropped in places were others dogs had failed too get a result. after young dogs that had been on terms lost the game eventually getting them out drop the old dog getting the result now he was no small dog by any means done the hours dug 3 and 4 times in the one day and when you broke in he was right up tight usually taking a hold as you got near or day light broke if the game sat up he ticked away like a clock if it pushed he pushed back now this dog in his time came across a few foxes the lad says that you knew fox was at home by how excited he got before he was even near the earth but that if he made contact and could get his hold he was not letting go but if he was getting punished from a fox around a corner or that he just could nt get right into it he reverted back too his usual style and sounded away till the light broke in like he d always done when working the bigger game not too be frowned upon i think but maybe too be admired as at end of day there working dogs and thats all thats asked that they stay and work till job is seen through this thing of saying out of hand that a dog should kill a fox is unfair in my eyes as the only thing that really knows what happens down there is the dog and a bit of brain and determination beats raw aggression in my eyes any day .

[liamdelaney 2,586]

We never dug fox unless we came on him by accident how many men gave away dogs to the fox boys or to hunt service because they never made the grade for badger.I once gave two pups to the North Tipp hunt they eventually ended up with badger diggers they were to hard for what the hunt wanted.I never met anybody who dug badgers who did not think they were beautifull animals.

[tinytiger 822]

quick question pre ban was breeding from a fox only bitch frowned on by the lads that dug the bigger game as i ve talked too a few old timers that stated they d only breed from a bitch that worked all game and that lads breeding from fox only bitches were contributing too the poor standard of some of the terriers being produced .

 

Pre-ban a bitch that only worked fox would not be kept in my experience,

Some of these bitches (and dogs) would be handed down to hunt terrier men.

If they bred from these bitches it was for there own use.

They had no problem using baying/bolting terriers. To say that these men weakened the terriers we have today

might be overstating things.

There were 2 grades of terrier for 2 types of quarry.

I agree with Fat man that badger dogs were kept away from fox.

I have seen several occasions where a small earth stinking of fox would be skipped over.

We were after different quarry and would not spend the time at these earths. Most (but not all) of the dogs I came across that worked badger would have had some bull in there breeding.

If they would not kill a fox (or make a dammed good attempt) there would have been some raised eyebrows around the dig.

 

Bull russels?

We did dig fox on occasion, I thought they were a good test for any dog. But there was a difference.

JMO

 

Edited to add photos of typical dogs you could have seen pre-ban.

 

 

As you can tell they were not kept for their looks!

All this talk of lines sounds an awful lot like;

I'VE GOT IT! AND YOU DON'T BULLSH1T.

 

Guys who had successful yards, had certain things in common.

They were never afraid to cull, or move on to a lower grade work.

They would travel any distance to get a dog on trial.

If the dog proved itself while on trial, they would pay what was asked. No complaints.

 

Bull russels?

Edited April 1, 2011 by tinytiger

[hack 301]

quick question pre ban was breeding from a fox only bitch frowned on by the lads that dug the bigger game as i ve talked too a few old timers that stated they d only breed from a bitch that worked all game and that lads breeding from fox only bitches were contributing too the poor standard of some of the terriers being produced .

 

Pre-ban a bitch that only worked fox would not be kept in my experience,

Some of these bitches (and dogs) would be handed down to hunt terrier men.

If they bred from these bitches it was for there own use.

They had no problem using baying/bolting terriers. To say that these men weakened the terriers we have today

might be overstating things.

There were 2 grades of terrier for 2 types of quarry.

I agree with Fat man that badger dogs were kept away from fox.

I have seen several occasions where a small earth stinking of fox would be skipped over.

We were after different quarry and would not spend the time at these earths. Most (but not all) of the dogs I came across that worked badger would have had some bull in there breeding.

If they would not kill a fox (or make a dammed good attempt) there would have been some raised eyebrows around the dig.

 

Bull russels?

We did dig fox on occasion, I thought they were a good test for any dog. But there was a difference.

JMO

 

Edited to add photos of typical dogs you could have seen pre-ban.

 

 

As you can tell they were not kept for their looks!

All this talk of lines sounds an awful lot like;

I'VE GOT IT! AND YOU DON'T BULLSH1T.

 

Guys who had successful yards, had certain things in common.

They were never afraid to cull, or move on to a lower grade work.

They would travel any distance to get a dog on trial.

If the dog proved itself while on trial, they would pay what was asked. No complaints.

 

Bull russels?

nothing to do with ive got it you dont bull shit all theie saying is would gladly walk past a fox earth for a sett just like a lot of lads i know would as for travelling miles been all over the couyry as it happens the pups for next season are from a dog in south wales to my bitch dug to the dog many times oter end of counry still travelling atb

[p3d 879]

quick question pre ban was breeding from a fox only bitch frowned on by the lads that dug the bigger game as i ve talked too a few old timers that stated they d only breed from a bitch that worked all game and that lads breeding from fox only bitches were contributing too the poor standard of some of the terriers being produced .

 

 

 

Bull russels?

 

Tinytiger,

I don't know where that text came from, it is not in the original post?

[tinytiger 822]

quick question pre ban was breeding from a fox only bitch frowned on by the lads that dug the bigger game as i ve talked too a few old timers that stated they d only breed from a bitch that worked all game and that lads breeding from fox only bitches were contributing too the poor standard of some of the terriers being produced .

 

 

 

Bull russels?

 

Tinytiger,

I don't know where that text came from, it is not in the original post?

 

It came out in the wrong place when i tried to reply to your post with the pictures in it,i was asking are they bull russels or very strong russels.

[p3d 879]

quick question pre ban was breeding from a fox only bitch frowned on by the lads that dug the bigger game as i ve talked too a few old timers that stated they d only breed from a bitch that worked all game and that lads breeding from fox only bitches were contributing too the poor standard of some of the terriers being produced .

 

 

 

Bull russels?

 

Tinytiger,

I don't know where that text came from, it is not in the original post?

 

It came out in the wrong place when i tried to reply to your post with the pictures in it,i was asking are they bull russels or very strong russels.

 

The red dog is half staff/russell

The first white is quarter EBT

The second white, I am not sure, probably EBT back there somewhere.

[p3d 879]

here s one lads i know of a pre ban dog that was dug in all the testing places. dropped in places were others dogs had failed too get a result. after young dogs that had been on terms lost the game eventually getting them out drop the old dog getting the result now he was no small dog by any means done the hours dug 3 and 4 times in the one day and when you broke in he was right up tight usually taking a hold as you got near or day light broke if the game sat up he ticked away like a clock if it pushed he pushed back now this dog in his time came across a few foxes the lad says that you knew fox was at home by how excited he got before he was even near the earth but that if he made contact and could get his hold he was not letting go but if he was getting punished from a fox around a corner or that he just could nt get right into it he reverted back too his usual style and sounded away till the light broke in like he d always done when working the bigger game not too be frowned upon i think but maybe too be admired as at end of day there working dogs and thats all thats asked that they stay and work till job is seen through this thing of saying out of hand that a dog should kill a fox is unfair in my eyes as the only thing that really knows what happens down there is the dog and a bit of brain and determination beats raw aggression in my eyes any day .

 

Everything you have written is spot on Dee mac.

The red dog in the Photo's worked a similar way. He used his noggin in a difficult situation.

Rarely got badly bitten. But if he encountered any quarry with space available he would close like a Staff, no baying.

Now nearly every one of the Fox we might come across were 12 to 14lb examples. (Once came across a 16lb dog fox).

These dogs (and they were not the best) would finish the fox like it was a cat.

(I am not saying they killed cats, in case any sensitive souls are reading this, I mean they would show it no respect).

 

The whole topic of "lines in terriers" is getting a bit dated.

There is a set time limit on whether a line is throwing consistent workers.

I think that time limit has run out.

At this stage of the game breeders should have distilled down a line so that you have a better chance than 50/50.

Otherwise whats the point. If someone has a good little bitch working to their satisfaction.

Why don't they just breed it to the best worker they can find.

It worked for the guys who started off terrier work, it will work for us.

JMHO

[Bryan 1,362]

I agree with SHAMO,i think it all boils down to what the dogs are worked on.I have seen dogs that are worked week in week out on fox,but would they go the distance with badger,PRE BAN of course.I have seen quarry dug one week and released and dug again the following week again,would the fox dogs of today be able to hold one that's been dug a few times,i have my doubt's.I have been lucky enough to have had the pleasure to dig both and in my eyes fox dogs are easy enough come by.It was a whole different ball game to keep consistant badger dogs and dogs that were dug to weekly.There the type of lines i think are best.jmho.

i dont agree fat man too many people under estimate the fox its easy enough to get a dog to work a fox on ten or twelve digs in the season but you push them and work them to foxs a few times a a week and when at xmas the foxs are in full health they can soon sort the wheat from the chaff just my opinion ive seen many a good dog finished by a fox

 

Spot on.

[Shamo 319]

quick question pre ban was breeding from a fox only bitch frowned on by the lads that dug the bigger game as i ve talked too a few old timers that stated they d only breed from a bitch that worked all game and that lads breeding from fox only bitches were contributing too the poor standard of some of the terriers being produced .

 

To ME it was not acceptable to breed from a non Badger digging Bitch, she would also need to be a hard Fox Bitch too. Hence the reason I have only intentionally bred 2 Litters EVER. They were for replacement Fox Dogs for when I was in Hunt service, from Reasonable digging Dogs to Fox only Bitches, but the two Bitches killed their Foxes more often than not. I always had a cur for bolting and digging one out for the Hounds though, as a necessity. I never had a 'digging Dog' and 'digging Bitch' at the same time to be able to breed them together. I had a decent Dog with no Bitch or I had a decent Bitch with no Dog....sods law. I kept myself to myself, hence not having the ability to breed to a mates or whatever. Somebody who did mix well with others, who had a decent Bitch was highly sought after!

My personal opinion is that the Dog AND Bitch in the pairing should be 'digging Terriers', neither one Fox only. I also think they should be as close to 100% (modern terminology) as you can get, allowing for the ODD unsuccessful outcome. I must admit though, my phylosophy on what a 'digging Terrier' should be has left me Dogless, penniless and unable to sleep on too many occasions.....lol. Each to their own though, before anyone jumps down my Throat...lol.

[kevin em 342]

A lot of men i knew that dug badger consistanly would try and keep there dogs away from fox for obvious reasons.Not every fox is easy dug but that's down to the ground your working not the dog that is with it.If a fox can push a terrier when the presure is on then that terrier is questionable.We all here in eire have to settle for what we can legaly dig now and that is fox,but i still say they are no match for a desent terrier.I see some of the dogs that are been bred nowadays and have seen big lumps of dogs been drove back by fox how would these fare out against badger,they would'nt.Fair play to any one that works there dogs to fox 3or4 times a week,but lets face it there sounders cause if they were geting stuck in each time out they would not be out 3or4 times a week.Kevin what has xmas got to do with diging a fox,the only diff i see is weather wise,colder and ground harder with frost.Have you still got that dodgy knee keven haha i think your a bit like meself too fond of the spuds and bacon.

dont agree now either fat man mine are not sounders except for one and they are worked regular to fox but no how to handle themselves with the exception of one who is hard on herself takin hold where ever she can from xmas on the dog foxs can be full of hormones and give a good account of himself i have one bitch that is nearly eleven that killed foxs all her life with ease at at little expense to herself dont forget lads opinions are like arse holes every one has one but it doesn make us right the whole time Edited April 2, 2011 by kevin em

[jarhead 8]

?

Edited April 3, 2011 by jarhead

[beef-unit 0]

any one got any pups coming up?