D.I.Y policing,the rise of online vigilantes.

[mackem 23,799]

Plod isn't too happy about this....

 

POLICE TOLD TO HALT RISE OF PAEDOPHILE HUNTERS

Police have been told to crack down on paedophile-hunting vigilantes after the number of groups in the nation targeting online child abusers rose to more than 75.

Internal guidance for detectives, obtained by The Times, tells them to investigate any potential offences by the hunters as well as those they accuse of trying to groom children.

This could include harassment, privacy offences or violence offences if there are clashes when the suspect is confronted. The guidance, handed out last year, also warns officers that vigilante groups have “little or no consideration” for the safeguarding requirements of victims of the paedophiles they have outed.

The advice suggests that the quality of information passed to police is “frequently low”, while vigilante groups have previously destroyed evidence about their confrontations.

The National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC) says: “The techniques used by vigilantes will often be very different to those employed by the police and may involve the commission of offences by the vigilantes. In such circumstances, it is important that the police bring any potential offences committed by the vigilante to the attention of the charging lawyer.”

There is concern about rising levels of amateur paedophile-hunting, with more than 75 groups, with names such as Dark Justice and The Hunted One, operating in what a court was told this week had become a “cottage industry”.

This means that hundreds if not thousands of people are posing as children online to catch potential sexual predators. While their actions have led to scores of prosecutions they have raised concerns about vigilantism and the safety of both accuser and suspect. Undercover police who contact potential abusers must adhere to strict guidelines and their work is subjected to scrutiny that is lacking in inquiries by paedophile hunters.

The NPCC guidance tells officers that they must not work with any vigilante groups or endorse their activities.

The document says they should make clear that confrontation and exposing abusers online “could put people at risk”. It warns that the wrong people could be exposed “either by mistake or with other intent”, and that officers should preserve evidence quickly because vigilantes have been known to destroy it.

Chief Constable Simon Bailey, the NPCC lead for child protection, said that people should let the police investigate. “So-called paedophile hunters are taking risks they don’t understand and can undermine police investigations,” he said. “Most importantly, unlike our officers, they have no way of safeguarding child victims. The increase in these groups is symptomatic of the increasing scale of child sexual abuse that police are dealing with.” The methods of paedophile-hunters came under scrutiny last April when legal teams acting for two men allegedly snared by online activists claimed that prosecutions using evidence gathered in such a way “diminished the integrity of the court process”.

Mr Justice Langstaff, however, ruled at Newcastle crown court in favour of the paedophile hunters. The judgment meant that men caught by them could continue to be prosecuted.

Brian Hegarty, a criminal law specialist, said the ruling had “opened the floodgates”, letting “self-appointed crime-fighters” act in a way he believes is concerning. He said: “The way some [groups] behave causes concern because they are not subject to the same sorts of strict regulations and accountability as law enforcers and the danger of that is they can specifically target people.”

Vigilantes and violence
• David Baker, 43, killed himself in October four days after he was confronted by paedophile hunters and detained by Hampshire police. His family said vigilantes acted “too quickly and too fiercely without thinking of the repercussions”.

• Violence broke out on Easter Day at Bluewater shopping centre, near Dartford, when members of a group called The Hunted One surrounded a man they claimed was grooming a teenage girl. A video showed violent scenes after a member of the group confronted the man, saying: “You’re here to meet a child for sex, yeah?” Security guards broke up the fight and police arrived and arrested the abuse suspect, who was eventually jailed for a child sex offence. Two vigilantes pleaded guilty to affray.

• This week police warned hunters about identifying suspects online after two men were attacked by three masked loyalist paramilitaries at home in north Belfast. It was after an occupant was confronted on his doorstep by Predator Catchers NI. He had denied wrongdoing.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/police-told-to-halt-rise-of-paedophile-hunters-8c8c38727

[WILF 44,322]

I make them right, these so called vigilantes are nothing more than glorified busy bodies who use protection of children as an excuse to indulge the nastier sides of their small minded characters.

These are the same type of people who would be phoning up the council over a dog barking and getting it put down.

They cut about without a care to if they may or may not ruin some perfectly innocent persons life.....or worse.

They should be put in f***ing jail ! 

[mushroom 12,391]

I disagree WILF. If someone was talking to our kids like these b*****ds do online. You and me would both see the fuuckers as paedos and rightly so. That is what they are! I would happily sort anyone out talking to a young kid, saying let's do this and that  At least these hunters are passing everything to the correct authorities. Mind not long ago a judge praising them for their dedication.

All paedos should be removed from their mortal coil imo. I have no empathy or emotion for someone who wants to fuuck kids.

I met several kids who had been abused when I was younger and it still brings me to tears sometimes, over 20 years later. No one has the right to do that to a child's life.

Shroom. 

[mackem 23,799]

Difficult to ruin an innocent persons life wilf,its normally innocent kids lives that are ruined,these pedo hunters have internet/phone chat records and arrange to meet the groomer,if he turns up he is guilty as sin because he had one intention on his mind.

 

[stop.end 4,079]

47 minutes ago, WILF said:

I make them right, these so called vigilantes are nothing more than glorified busy bodies who use protection of children as an excuse to indulge the nastier sides of their small minded characters.

These are the same type of people who would be phoning up the council over a dog barking and getting it put down.

They cut about without a care to if they may or may not ruin some perfectly innocent persons life.....or worse.

They should be put in f***ing jail ! 

What a ball bag of a statement.. if someone is looking to meet a young child for sex and someone catching them your linking that to calling the council over a barking dog.. ha you were the fella a while ago who was saying was ok to grab a girl by the arse in a pub.. cxck of the highest order..and i love the way you try an make out you know how irish folk think..your only living here a wet week... statements like you come out with makes me laff.. clown...

[mushroom 12,391]

Maybe the point WILF is trying to make is the onus is on the parents!

My eldest is 15, no devices allowed in her bedroom. Phone stays in front room charging at night and school work is done on the Mac on the dining room table. Teach your kids right and THEY won't let this shit happen. Leave them to their own devices and their youth and naivety will shine through and get them into a situation they cannot control

Edited to add this doesn't only apply to the internet. 

Edited January 13, 2018 by mushroom

[dave88 1,565]

Should be recruiting nonce hunters not threatening them...scum of the universe

[kanny 19,389]

I think the original nonce hunters were spot on how they conducted themselves and went about business and I cant fault them but its the weekend have a go warriors who are seeking some kind of self notoriety that you have to be careful about ....mistakes will be made a innocent life's ruined. ...in principle I agree with what theses hunters are doing but there's a lot of potential for mammoth fek ups if its not done right . 

[scothunter 12,609]

12 minutes ago, kanny said:

I think the original nonce hunters were spot on how they conducted themselves and went about business and I cant fault them but its the weekend have a go warriors who are seeking some kind of self notoriety that you have to be careful about ....mistakes will be made a innocent life's ruined. ...in principle I agree with what theses hunters are doing but there's a lot of potential for mammoth fek ups if its not done right . 

Think that was the point wilf was making mate. 

[bird 9,594]

22 minutes ago, WILF said:

I make them right, these so called vigilantes are nothing more than glorified busy bodies who use protection of children as an excuse to indulge the nastier sides of their small minded characters.

These are the same type of people who would be phoning up the council over a dog barking and getting it put down.

They cut about without a care to if they may or may not ruin some perfectly innocent persons life.....or worse.

They should be put in f***ing jail ! 

true wilf , i remember  few years ago, a old bloke  who lost his  wife from cancer , think is son lived in New Zealand  something like that, anyway tho old lad lived on his own, kept him self to his self  , bit of a loner .  well these so call  pedo vigilantes  , singled  him out , and put him in hospital , bust him up bad , not sure if he ever recovered proper from them injuries  .  dont get wrong this sick twats need good kicking who abuse kids, but for christ sake make sure they get the right  person , to many macho wankers out there 

[scothunter 12,609]

The police have a unit that does this exact thing successfully and within the law and fairy and without mistakes.

I also think most of the others doing it there goal is for profile hits and subscriptions. Even the yank one catch a Predator was for viewing ratings more than anything else.

Suppose any way it's done if it exposés a paedo is a good thing but personally I think it should be done professionally and with proper resources.

Remember few year back the news of the world went down this road and it resulted in an elderly man being kicked to death in his front garden who was totally innocent and just so happened to resemble a paedo. 

[THE STIFFMEISTER 14,558]

2 hours ago, WILF said:

I make them right, these so called vigilantes are nothing more than glorified busy bodies who use protection of children as an excuse to indulge the nastier sides of their small minded characters.

These are the same type of people who would be phoning up the council over a dog barking and getting it put down.

They cut about without a care to if they may or may not ruin some perfectly innocent persons life.....or worse.

They should be put in f***ing jail ! 

Yes!!!! 

Absolutely on the Head brother as always 

anyway I thought long and hard about posting this but I will. 

My misses worked at a food wholesalers a while back and there was a youn chap , mid twenties , who when I first started going there was very clearly autistic and socially inept. 

A good example of this was that when some Americans came into the shop once his opening greeting was “ what did you make of 9 /11 then? “ 

totally and utterly in a dream world, however , he got dropped off by his parents , picked up , worked all day with the people there , interacted with customers , as good a life and as independent a life as a lad of that nature can be . 

He was happy , in his life , talking to the girls that worked there, he’d never had a girlfriend and I’d imagine had pretty much an asexual lifestyle . 

Not too long ago he was prosecuted for online conversations with an underage girl .the judge commended the catfish vigilante for their work in his case.

 I don’t know the ins and outs or don’t want to really. 

But it’s pretty clear that whoever vigilante it was saw his name tag in the shop , thought he’s a wrong un, well give him a poke and destroyed the lads life with a few messages. 

Who has the right to do that? 

That lad was independent , happy, no burden to anyone and a relief for his parents via working. 

Now he’s unemployable, a constant worry to his parents every time he’s out as he is always tagged in spotted in our town on Facebook. He was no burden on the system and I’m pretty certain wouldn’t have carried on like this has he not been led up the garden path.... 

 

 

 

[kanny 19,389]

22 minutes ago, THE STIFFMEISTER said:

Yes!!!! 

Absolutely on the Head brother as always 

anyway I thought long and hard about posting this but I will. 

My misses worked at a food wholesalers a while back and there was a youn chap , mid twenties , who when I first started going there was very clearly autistic and socially inept. 

A good example of this was that when some Americans came into the shop once his opening greeting was “ what did you make of 9 /11 then? “ 

totally and utterly in a dream world, however , he got dropped off by his parents , picked up , worked all day with the people there , interacted with customers , as good a life and as independent a life as a lad of that nature can be . 

He was happy , in his life , talking to the girls that worked there, he’d never had a girlfriend and I’d imagine had pretty much an asexual lifestyle . 

Not too long ago he was prosecuted for online conversations with an underage girl .the judge commended the catfish vigilante for their work in his case.

 I don’t know the ins and outs or don’t want to really. 

But it’s pretty clear that whoever vigilante it was saw his name tag in the shop , thought he’s a wrong un, well give him a poke and destroyed the lads life with a few messages. 

Who has the right to do that? 

That lad was independent , happy, no burden to anyone and a relief for his parents via working. 

Now he’s unemployable, a constant worry to his parents every time he’s out as he is always tagged in spotted in our town on Facebook. He was no burden on the system and I’m pretty certain wouldn’t have carried on like this has he not been led up the garden path.... 

 

 

 

I know of a lad who had a burger van and school kids would come at dinner ...a group of young lasses were having a joke with him and one flashed her tits at him this must have made the talk of the school it eventually got back to her parents who reported him because obviously there daughter could do no wrong ...anyway to cut it short he got pulled in for questioning nothing came of it but the girls dad was a influential type that made his life a misery through friends of his so much so he shut up the burger van and moved on ....it's not always clear cut .

[THE STIFFMEISTER 14,558]

Mate , the reality is and I mean all due respect here , 

girls single between 16 and 24 are slags!!!! 

I work with boys who are in that age bracket , one 22 year old lad has shagged over 300 chicks , he meets theee or four a week online and brings them into our accommodation nightly , he’s notjing special either . 

Another lad is a doorman and is a proper spice boy.hes sharp enough to realise that if he takes them home from work he could come unstuck and only swaps numbers If he works Thursday , his phone never stops at work Friday . I don’t mean messages I mean calls , texts , pics constant beepS from 3 or 4 chicks at a time. 

Hes on instagram and plenty of fish and other sites and gets messages from married women , pole dancers , the works ! 

People need to accept that girls grow up pretty fast these days , sad but true ! 

If I reposted some of the stuff he gets sent and puts on the whats app group at work , you’d go blind , and it’s all them chasing him. 

[scothunter 12,609]

I hope I can word this correctly and it doesn't look like I'm defending paedos .

Anyway I'll give it a go.

I assuming these vigilante's are masquerading as under age kids and they lead the potential paedo into a conversation in the process gathering the convo/pics etc. Also I'm assuming they engage in dubious conversation with the other party to keep the guise going. 

My point being although what they are doing is disgusting/wrong/unlawful.it may just be an online fantasy and they have no intentions of following it up or arranging to meet the underage girl/boy. But we're drawn in by whatever the vigilante's were writing etc. 

As said I said I am absolutely in no way defending them I mearly pointing out that these type of traps and investigations should be best left to professionals who know the law and how best to deal with it. You don't want a real dangerous paedo being let off cause of a clever lawyer claiming entrapment. (Tbh I don't even know if that's a thing in the UK) lol I know it is in the states.

Anyway  hope I wrote that in a way that doesnt look as if I'm defending it.