Fencing Training And Pointer Lurcher Update.

[Shaddy93 840]

You could be right there I'll find out tomoro I'm sure he did say it was in Russia

[Hannibal 226]

This started out a good thread,was interesting hearing about raccoons from someone who hunts them and then it was men arguing about dogs that are probably dead by now and was' t even owned by them. Comical

[green dragon 694]

Id imagain a coon would fight quite simaler to a cat

 

Not as strong or heavy as a coon but the can stick to a dog

[Minkenry 1,044]

Id imagain a coon would fight quite simaler to a cat

 

Not as strong or heavy as a coon but the can stick to a dog

 

Cats and coons have some similarities and some differences too.

 

Cats have the advantage of needle sharp claws, which can catch some dogs off guard, causing them to weaken. But that's where the cat's advantage ends.

 

Raccoons have comparatively dull claws, but they use them to the best of their ability, and ball up on a dog's face similar to how a cat sometimes does, but with much more physical power to do so. Coons can bite much harder than a cat, and they tend to lock their bite onto the dog when they bite, often continuing to hang on and attack the dog even after the dog has quit and is trying to get away. This is especially true when the dog grabs a raccoon in the water, but it also applies to dry land fights. The biggest difference between cats and coons is how long the coon can fight without weakening or dying. Most dogs could go through multiple cats back to back in the time that it would take for it to dispatch an average raccoon.

 

Just like with any animal, the size, skill, and physical ability of the dog will drastically influence how quickly and easily the raccoon is dispatched. In addition to this, there is a HUGE variation in the fighting abilities of raccoons. Some big boar coons die much quicker and easier than you would expect, and some small sows will fight far longer, and cause far more damage than you would think an animal that size could pull off. As far as size ranges are concerned, raccoons can range from tiny little southern raccoons who as adults often don't get above 10 lbs, to great big north eastern varieties who can have exceptional individuals that grow over 40 lbs! Though size doesn't always directly influence a coon's fighting ability, it sure can help!

 

Now having said all this, I want to make it clear that I am far from an expert on hunting coons, especially when it comes to terrier work! There are many out there FAR MORE qualified to discuss this topic than I am, and if you guys would like more information from a more qualified source than I, I wouldn't mind inviting a friend or two on here to discuss the topic further. I've never owned a terrier in my life (unless you want to count a pit bull "terrier" ha ha ha), but I have several friends who hunt raccoons and other game with them, and I've been out and seen their dogs work from time to time. I've also had friends who hunt coons with the traditional coon hounds. Most of my personal coon hunting has been done with pit bulls and/or cattle dogs when I was a kid.

[roybo 2,873]

I'd have guessed they would be more akin to a badger ,than fox or cat just guessing?

[straight2hand 303]

 

Id imagain a coon would fight quite simaler to a cat

 

Not as strong or heavy as a coon but the can stick to a dog

 

Cats and coons have some similarities and some differences too.

 

Cats have the advantage of needle sharp claws, which can catch some dogs off guard, causing them to weaken. But that's where the cat's advantage ends.

 

Raccoons have comparatively dull claws, but they use them to the best of their ability, and ball up on a dog's face similar to how a cat sometimes does, but with much more physical power to do so. Coons can bite much harder than a cat, and they tend to lock their bite onto the dog when they bite, often continuing to hang on and attack the dog even after the dog has quit and is trying to get away. This is especially true when the dog grabs a raccoon in the water, but it also applies to dry land fights. The biggest difference between cats and coons is how long the coon can fight without weakening or dying. Most dogs could go through multiple cats back to back in the time that it would take for it to dispatch an average raccoon.

 

Just like with any animal, the size, skill, and physical ability of the dog will drastically influence how quickly and easily the raccoon is dispatched. In addition to this, there is a HUGE variation in the fighting abilities of raccoons. Some big boar coons die much quicker and easier than you would expect, and some small sows will fight far longer, and cause far more damage than you would think an animal that size could pull off. As far as size ranges are concerned, raccoons can range from tiny little southern raccoons who as adults often don't get above 10 lbs, to great big north eastern varieties who can have exceptional individuals that grow over 40 lbs! Though size doesn't always directly influence a coon's fighting ability, it sure can help!

 

Now having said all this, I want to make it clear that I am far from an expert on hunting coons, especially when it comes to terrier work! There are many out there FAR MORE qualified to discuss this topic than I am, and if you guys would like more information from a more qualified source than I, I wouldn't mind inviting a friend or two on here to discuss the topic further. I've never owned a terrier in my life (unless you want to count a pit bull "terrier" ha ha ha), but I have several friends who hunt raccoons and other game with them, and I've been out and seen their dogs work from time to time. I've also had friends who hunt coons with the traditional coon hounds. Most of my personal coon hunting has been done with pit bulls and/or cattle dogs when I was a kid.

 

It sounds like a great crack hunting racoons, a bit exotic and different to what us lads over here have to deal with, but don't underestimate the fox! Yes America has the coyote and many other species we would never come across over here, it is very difficult to compare as it's dogs for jobs and horses for courses! But the fox isn't known for its power - it is know for its evasion! A fox can disappear into nothing, against all odds - that is the very reason it is so respected.

 

I would love to hunt with some of you guys over there! A lot of lurcher guys in Britain are in the search for an adaptable dog capable of challenging anything its up against, with skill and control. Is retrieval important in your dogs? Do you lamp alot or is it more daytime activity?

Its very easy to say"our dogs have to do this" or "foxes do this, or that" but they each have there place - no offence to you American boys, I respect your game! But MHO is you think your the first to do things sometimes most of your lines have most likely came from ours - one way or another, we have been doing this for a very long time - but that's not saying our way is better, Just think sometimes you can presume that if a dog can kill a coyote it can kill a fox with ease.

[Minkenry 1,044]

I'd have guessed they would be more akin to a badger ,than fox or cat just guessing?

 

I couldn't say, as I've never seen a dog work a badger in person.

[roybo 2,873]

 

I'd have guessed they would be more akin to a badger ,than fox or cat just guessing?

 

I couldn't say, as I've never seen a dog work a badger in person.

No nor have I,get you bother over here ! I just meant the they would probably be closer to a badger than a fox build and size wise ,if a tad smaller.

[Minkenry 1,044]

 

 

Id imagain a coon would fight quite simaler to a cat

 

Not as strong or heavy as a coon but the can stick to a dog

 

Cats and coons have some similarities and some differences too.

 

Cats have the advantage of needle sharp claws, which can catch some dogs off guard, causing them to weaken. But that's where the cat's advantage ends.

 

Raccoons have comparatively dull claws, but they use them to the best of their ability, and ball up on a dog's face similar to how a cat sometimes does, but with much more physical power to do so. Coons can bite much harder than a cat, and they tend to lock their bite onto the dog when they bite, often continuing to hang on and attack the dog even after the dog has quit and is trying to get away. This is especially true when the dog grabs a raccoon in the water, but it also applies to dry land fights. The biggest difference between cats and coons is how long the coon can fight without weakening or dying. Most dogs could go through multiple cats back to back in the time that it would take for it to dispatch an average raccoon.

 

Just like with any animal, the size, skill, and physical ability of the dog will drastically influence how quickly and easily the raccoon is dispatched. In addition to this, there is a HUGE variation in the fighting abilities of raccoons. Some big boar coons die much quicker and easier than you would expect, and some small sows will fight far longer, and cause far more damage than you would think an animal that size could pull off. As far as size ranges are concerned, raccoons can range from tiny little southern raccoons who as adults often don't get above 10 lbs, to great big north eastern varieties who can have exceptional individuals that grow over 40 lbs! Though size doesn't always directly influence a coon's fighting ability, it sure can help!

 

Now having said all this, I want to make it clear that I am far from an expert on hunting coons, especially when it comes to terrier work! There are many out there FAR MORE qualified to discuss this topic than I am, and if you guys would like more information from a more qualified source than I, I wouldn't mind inviting a friend or two on here to discuss the topic further. I've never owned a terrier in my life (unless you want to count a pit bull "terrier" ha ha ha), but I have several friends who hunt raccoons and other game with them, and I've been out and seen their dogs work from time to time. I've also had friends who hunt coons with the traditional coon hounds. Most of my personal coon hunting has been done with pit bulls and/or cattle dogs when I was a kid.

 

It sounds like a great crack hunting racoons, a bit exotic and different to what us lads over here have to deal with, but don't underestimate the fox! Yes America has the coyote and many other species we would never come across over here, it is very difficult to compare as it's dogs for jobs and horses for courses! But the fox isn't known for its power - it is know for its evasion! A fox can disappear into nothing, against all odds - that is the very reason it is so respected.

 

I would love to hunt with some of you guys over there! A lot of lurcher guys in Britain are in the search for an adaptable dog capable of challenging anything its up against, with skill and control. Is retrieval important in your dogs? Do you lamp alot or is it more daytime activity?

Its very easy to say"our dogs have to do this" or "foxes do this, or that" but they each have there place - no offence to you American boys, I respect your game! But MHO is you think your the first to do things sometimes most of your lines have most likely came from ours - one way or another, we have been doing this for a very long time - but that's not saying our way is better, Just think sometimes you can presume that if a dog can kill a coyote it can kill a fox with ease.

 

 

 

Yes, the challenge of the fox is catching one! I have yet to even come close to catching one myself! But up until now I haven't had a proper dog for the job either

 

For me I want my dog to do pretty much anything I ask it to (as far as obedience is concerned). So yes I teach my dogs to retrieve, but I also teach it a lot of other things too. If I say sit, they must sit RIGHT NOW, even if they are chasing something, and they must sit until I tell them it's ok to get up. If I say heel, they must walk behind or along the side of me, and stay close. When I open up the car to let them out, they must first wait for me to give them permission to get out. That's how I train all of my dogs, regardless of the breed. Some say sight hounds or terriers or pit bulls have too much drive to train like that. But I say that's rubbish! Sure it takes more time, patience, and skill than a border collie or Labrador, but I believe it can be done with the vast majority of dogs, especially if you start training them young enough. But even if your dog's fully grown and started on game it can be done. I once trained a pit bull that was several years old to obey the sit command, even when a cat (her favorite prey) walked right in front of her face! She wanted the cat so bad she was trembling with excitement, and even bit her own tong because her jaws were chattering so much from excitement! But she never moved despite her excitement, and she was off leash the entire time.

 

It's not just a presumption, the boys out her kill foxes too, it's just not a priory for most of them. If they see something running, you better believe they'll turn their coyote dogs on it! They'll get badgers running above ground, coons, foxes, coyotes, hare, whatever they see while they're out and about with their coyote dogs. Some guys obsess over coyotes and only run them, but other guys will turn their dogs on whatever they see (that's legal I may add). We don't have near as many foxes as you guys, because our coyotes kill them. So they can be a little more tricky to find in some places.

[Accip74 7,112]

You could be right there I'll find out tomoro I'm sure he did say it was in Russia

I'm going to take a guess at Raccoon dogs in Finland?

[tb25 4,626]

Never understood the sit command. Bit like saying paw..I say stay and as long as they don't move am happy..

[tb25 4,626]

Don't take it all to heart mink man.you ace done a great job with both mink and dog.

[straight2hand 303]

 

 

 

Id imagain a coon would fight quite simaler to a cat

 

Not as strong or heavy as a coon but the can stick to a dog

 

Cats and coons have some similarities and some differences too.

 

Cats have the advantage of needle sharp claws, which can catch some dogs off guard, causing them to weaken. But that's where the cat's advantage ends.

 

Raccoons have comparatively dull claws, but they use them to the best of their ability, and ball up on a dog's face similar to how a cat sometimes does, but with much more physical power to do so. Coons can bite much harder than a cat, and they tend to lock their bite onto the dog when they bite, often continuing to hang on and attack the dog even after the dog has quit and is trying to get away. This is especially true when the dog grabs a raccoon in the water, but it also applies to dry land fights. The biggest difference between cats and coons is how long the coon can fight without weakening or dying. Most dogs could go through multiple cats back to back in the time that it would take for it to dispatch an average raccoon.

 

Just like with any animal, the size, skill, and physical ability of the dog will drastically influence how quickly and easily the raccoon is dispatched. In addition to this, there is a HUGE variation in the fighting abilities of raccoons. Some big boar coons die much quicker and easier than you would expect, and some small sows will fight far longer, and cause far more damage than you would think an animal that size could pull off. As far as size ranges are concerned, raccoons can range from tiny little southern raccoons who as adults often don't get above 10 lbs, to great big north eastern varieties who can have exceptional individuals that grow over 40 lbs! Though size doesn't always directly influence a coon's fighting ability, it sure can help!

 

Now having said all this, I want to make it clear that I am far from an expert on hunting coons, especially when it comes to terrier work! There are many out there FAR MORE qualified to discuss this topic than I am, and if you guys would like more information from a more qualified source than I, I wouldn't mind inviting a friend or two on here to discuss the topic further. I've never owned a terrier in my life (unless you want to count a pit bull "terrier" ha ha ha), but I have several friends who hunt raccoons and other game with them, and I've been out and seen their dogs work from time to time. I've also had friends who hunt coons with the traditional coon hounds. Most of my personal coon hunting has been done with pit bulls and/or cattle dogs when I was a kid.

 

It sounds like a great crack hunting racoons, a bit exotic and different to what us lads over here have to deal with, but don't underestimate the fox! Yes America has the coyote and many other species we would never come across over here, it is very difficult to compare as it's dogs for jobs and horses for courses! But the fox isn't known for its power - it is know for its evasion! A fox can disappear into nothing, against all odds - that is the very reason it is so respected.

 

I would love to hunt with some of you guys over there! A lot of lurcher guys in Britain are in the search for an adaptable dog capable of challenging anything its up against, with skill and control. Is retrieval important in your dogs? Do you lamp alot or is it more daytime activity?

Its very easy to say"our dogs have to do this" or "foxes do this, or that" but they each have there place - no offence to you American boys, I respect your game! But MHO is you think your the first to do things sometimes most of your lines have most likely came from ours - one way or another, we have been doing this for a very long time - but that's not saying our way is better, Just think sometimes you can presume that if a dog can kill a coyote it can kill a fox with ease.

 

 

 

Yes, the challenge of the fox is catching one! I have yet to even come close to catching one myself! But up until now I haven't had a proper dog for the job either

 

For me I want my dog to do pretty much anything I ask it to (as far as obedience is concerned). So yes I teach my dogs to retrieve, but I also teach it a lot of other things too. If I say sit, they must sit RIGHT NOW, even if they are chasing something, and they must sit until I tell them it's ok to get up. If I say heel, they must walk behind or along the side of me, and stay close. When I open up the car to let them out, they must first wait for me to give them permission to get out. That's how I train all of my dogs, regardless of the breed. Some say sight hounds or terriers or pit bulls have too much drive to train like that. But I say that's rubbish! Sure it takes more time, patience, and skill than a border collie or Labrador, but I believe it can be done with the vast majority of dogs, especially if you start training them young enough. But even if your dog's fully grown and started on game it can be done. I once trained a pit bull that was several years old to obey the sit command, even when a cat (her favorite prey) walked right in front of her face! She wanted the cat so bad she was trembling with excitement, and even bit her own tong because her jaws were chattering so much from excitement! But she never moved despite her excitement, and she was off leash the entire time.

 

It's not just a presumption, the boys out her kill foxes too, it's just not a priory for most of them. If they see something running, you better believe they'll turn their coyote dogs on it! They'll get badgers running above ground, coons, foxes, coyotes, hare, whatever they see while they're out and about with their coyote dogs. Some guys obsess over coyotes and only run them, but other guys will turn their dogs on whatever they see (that's legal I may add). We don't have near as many foxes as you guys, because our coyotes kill them. So they can be a little more tricky to find in some places.

 

Thanks for the reply, interested in how you boys over the water go about you business. I would love to run a coyote one day sounds like excellent sport.

ATB S2H

[Shaddy93 840]

 

You could be right there I'll find out tomoro I'm sure he did say it was in Russia

I'm going to take a guess at Raccoon dogs in Finland?

Could be right mate rings a bell now I know my mate was moaning to me about how sh*t the food was so if the foods not so good in Finland that's where it is haha and really cold

[Mickey Finn 2,699]

https://youtu.be/CubY9zQN8xs I think this video says it all... piss poor

I don't think I would feed that dog.

 

Raccoons in my experience can fight back pretty well. Some are tougher than others obviously. But a lot of what we hear does seem to be exaggerated. Just like Minkenry, we don't have enough foxes around to have an opinion on them. The difference between a raccoon and a fox is that a raccoon can't run away so they turn and face the dog. Some dogs won't touch them but the ones that do always seem to handle them. My old wirehair liked to roll them and pull out their insides. Smaller ones he just shook to death. This seemed to keep him from being injured and this is for probably 50 raccoons.

 

I really miss that dog.