Stevens line/strain

[blackpack 70]

why do you after ask the breeder of a dog who hasnt got the dog anymore if you can breed from him. In my opinion if its in my kennels its my dog etc. Also what works for one man may not work for another

[m.r1 7]

Tried him over a couple of good bitches, but alas he is a jaffa

hello dogrun,

frank spencer bred and worked this terrier and is well aware of its capabilities,

it is because of this it was used as a hunt terrier.

frank is dissapointed such a medoicre terrier has been given the oppurtunity to try to continue a bloodline

especially without informing his former owner of these intentions

 

I have pmd you jack spratt, but will put this up for all to see.

 

Mediocre ? last 2 seasons he has been used 2-3 times a week, on some very stiff digs that some lads on here can vouch for.

 

most of our digs are 1-4 foot, but he has been tipped in v big deep places, last one was few week ago on educated stuff and the dog did 4 hrs 10 mins, never budged an inch. 9ft it went.

dog has never let us down once.

 

I cant knock the dog till i see him fail !

We didnt know who bred him, i was told he sat in kennels for a season or two( why was he not culled) maybe the rest did him some good ?!, took a couple of months to get him fit and in shape.

If the dog was no good he wouldnt be taking up kennel space !

 

Atb dogrun

 

hello dog,

i have replied to your pm before i read your post,

as i stated the words in my post were not mine but the words of the breeder

and former owner.

however i did personally see the dog worked 3 times and it was complete shit.

 

in answer to (why was he not culled) "my thoughts exactly"

 

 

thanks for the pm jack, if your ever over this way or the breeder drop in, or come for a day and see the dog graft

 

Dear All!!

 

Dog, I assume you are the friend of the owner? I bred the terrier and I chose as I have done on only a few ocassions to loan the terrier to terrier men on hunts for the specific use of a hard fox terrier. If you are genuine about not knowing the breeding ask the carpet man!! If he doesnt know he can get on the phone to me!

 

Unfortunatly since moving fromn the area you lose touch with people, however, these is a code of cinduct that the NWTF and the FMWTC do not teach young terrier men, not that these morals or principles need to be laid down, they are as follows

 

1 when given a terrier in good faith and you want to breed from it have the decency to ask the previous owner

 

2 Ask the previous owner if he/she wants a pup

 

3 Ask the owner about where surplus pups should go

 

Getting back to Eddie - He was not passed around, genuine hunt terrier men who required a hard dog, he was 6 and half years old when he went to his present owner, hhave you heard the saying a leopard never changes his spots!!

 

So lonng as the new owner is happy but if you think this is a good terrier you have very little life experience of a true working terrier, just stick to the 3 principles!!!#

#

[dogrun 2]

Edited June 9, 2009 by dogrun

[Rabbit Hunter 6,610]

As long as you're happy with the dog and it's doing the job for YOU that's all that matters...any pics of the dog mate?

[Waz 4,216]

Have been out with the carpet man today and been his partner for about 5-6 years now , im not bulling the dog up i just said he has done no wrong while he has had him.

and got my wires crossed with who the breeder was, mr carpet does speak very highly of you.

 

i now have the full sp !

as for breeding off him, that is between you and him.

 

Inexperience on my part maybe, as i have not been in the game as long as you or the present keeper.

I enjoy digging to the dog, so that all that matters to me .

thanks for the replying, and hope i havn't offended anyone with my comments !

 

ATB

 

dogrun

 

Been a great thread, and fairplay to you lads for discussing the dog/s like gentlemen. I hope this thread continues to run in the same vein.

 

"These is a code of cinduct that the NWTF and the FMWTC do not teach young terrier men, not that these morals or principles need to be laid down, they are as follows

 

1 when given a terrier in good faith and you want to breed from it have the decency to ask the previous owner

 

2 Ask the previous owner if he/she wants a pup

 

3 Ask the owner about where surplus pups should go"

 

If I was given a pup or an adult, I think out of respect to the breeder and the gesture. 1,2&3 would come naturally.

[Kye 77]

Obviously some replys on this thread are from lads that have issues with each other, and amoungst themselves, which is fine, and none of my business,...but here is another story of the 'Agro' dog, just to get things back on track,...no pictures, so sorry about that, but this story is true and FR from this forum was there to vouch for it,...

 

We had a pest control call out from a farmer about 20 minutes from my place,...raccoons tearing up feed/building and shitting everywhere, spoiling the hay in the loft,...

 

It was a cold day,...i dont remember how cold, but i remember that when we where using the bar/shovel, our gloves where freezing to the metal, and there was ice 3" thick in the creek bottoms,...

 

We just had Agro with us that day, and we went up, into the hay loft, and the dog checked the holes that the coon had made, in and out of the hay...there was sign everywhere, but the dog wasnt interested,...we both trusted the dog buy this time, and so we new no one was home...just as we where going to leave the loft, Agro jumped out of the loft, and belly-flopped onto the concrete floor below!...it was a drop of (im guessing?) 10-12 feet!...the dog landed, and although he had the air knocked out of him, he seemed fine after a closer look...

 

We walked through the 12" deep snow for a field or two, and found nothing....just the usual, coyote tracks eveywhere, even a pipe that a fox had used to shelter from the snow storm,...

 

Then along the creek, we found a single hole, probably an old ground hog buy the looks of it...there was a muddy path of coon prints going into it, and the dog was marking the earth from 10 feet away!...just what any digging lads like to see!...funny how it makes you feel warm inside, even if you are freezing your nuts off!..lol.

 

The dog squeezed in, his arse end, and back legs up in the air, like a overly fat, chocolate coloured Santa-Clause trying to deliver a sack of presents!...never ceases to amaze me the places this dog can get!

 

The dog is in, and is heard yapping/sounding...we both now the dogs style, and although we KNOW game is in there, because of the dogs size, and the smaller earth, he is not upto his game yet, and is frustrated...after 15 minutes, the sound of a coon/dog melee reaches our frozen ears, and we crack out the smokes (i only smoke around FR, hes a bad influence!..lol... ) we get the B&F out, and its under 2 1/2ft, so no worries (we THINK!)

 

The first go at driving the shovel into the ground, was a f*****g joke!...the ground was like granite, as we had had sub freezing weather for three weeks!...thank f**k we had FR's bar with us!...it weighs a fair bit, around the 25-30lbs mark!!!...but its a God-send in times like this!

 

I have a go, and im getting no where...i cant quite remember, but i think i was cutting weight for a fight at the time, and ive never been that great on the Bar anyway, and being 5-7" it didnt help....what is good, is FR is decent on the bar, and he started to chip away at the soil, but it was painfully slow...we took it in turns, and pryed with the bar, and shovel, and finaly we broke though!...the steam, rushed outta the dig, and the dog and coon where soaked through from the heat of the combat warming the tube up, and melting some of the mud/water,...

We had f****d it up slightly, and the 'plug' of ground was the wrong way up, so it was like trying to push a cork into a champage bottle!..lol...so after doctoring the dig, we finaly got the two out,...it was a hell of an ordeal,...the coon was of average size for the area, and the earth was tight, but the dog held his game, mid-tube, for well over 1 1/2hrs,...

 

I took the dog home, gave him a nice hot bath, doctored him up, and fed him,...the next day, when i let him out, i went to pick him up, and he span and snaped at me, and bite my thumb!...this was not like him at all, and he has never shown any man aggression,...on closer inspection, he had broken a rib, from the fall out of the hay loft!...yet he still stayed to his task, and got the quarry accounted for,...

 

Kye,...

[tatty 101]

good read that mate sounds a very good dog.

[stevolad 26]

That's what you want from a dog KYE, sounds like he definately has the heart and drive to do the job.

[m.r1 7]

Have been out with the carpet man today and been his partner for about 5-6 years now , im not bulling the dog up i just said he has done no wrong while he has had him.

and got my wires crossed with who the breeder was, mr carpet does speak very highly of you.

 

i now have the full sp !

as for breeding off him, that is between you and him.

 

Inexperience on my part maybe, as i have not been in the game as long as you or the present keeper.

I enjoy digging to the dog, so that all that matters to me .

thanks for the replying, and hope i havn't offended anyone with my comments !

 

ATB

 

dogrun

 

Dogrun, thanks for your honesty, no offence taken by me, I very rarely get offended, everyone has the right of opinion and there say thats the beauty of the site, but unfortunately on ocassions there is times when the truth or facts have to come out and 1 down side of the site in my opinion is the words that sometimes are used, just remember there are as many antis on here as genuine lads!!

 

Cant recall the other fellas/womens name who has mentioned about my 3 rules, depending on how you aquired the dog does determine if the "moral code of conduct" applies, if you bought it the dog is yours. I never breed working terriers to sell, bred for own use and the surplus are given/offered to close friends or through them to genuine terriermen. Even after this I never verbaly state any conditions except if the terier doesnt work do not pass it on and do not breed from it, this is the only condition I have ever made. Eddie was given and not loaned, but it was to a friend and is up to him what he wants to do with the terrier, however, I am dissapointed the terrier was lined several times without my knowledge, the 1st I heard was during a phone conversation with the owner some 6 mths ago and something I will discuss with him face to face rather than by phone or on the net. Before any wrong ideas/thoughts I still class the person as a friend.

 

I was quite rushed when I made my reply re Eddie and I would just like to add a little more to my previous thread. Some people may question why people like me get involved in the debates of the morals of breeding or promoting terriers attributes etc escpecally if the terrier is mediocre, he/she may be from a quality line but if the terrier doesnt have the working ability it doesnt really matter what line it is from its not a worker and should not be bred from.

 

Many years ago I made a massive mistake by prematurely using at stud a black dog I had bred, strong looking terrier who was slow to come on but then just started to turn the corner, or soI thought (5 digs later showed true colours), his brother was flying and at 9 years old was still a good digging dog and has probably dug more in a couple of seasons than most terriers do in their life time. Through laziness and having the thought "their brothers does it matter what dog lines my bitch the result will be the same" I used my 1, complete f**k up and a loss of 2 years, all the pups had the same coward trait in them, I was lucky I had other options but if I had lost the bitch before remating then it would be a different story. Never again!! On a positive note, none of the off spring were ever bred from so you are all safe, no shit floating around like swine flu!

 

It only takes a step back to have a look at all the threads, some good some bad and you realise how specific lines have been f**ked up and lost, mix and match techniques of breeding and premature breeding (not tested)! It is in my opinion the reason why the few remaining proper terriermen protect their lines to prevent self promotion, dog dealing and further damage to the lines by persons who are fame seekers or money makers.

 

Well Franks off, been to busy for the past 6 mths or so to be involved and time is precious now as the show season is upon us, must polish my fell boots and get my tweed jacket out, wheres my mole skins!!!

 

Bye bye

[blackpack 70]

excellent reply m.r 1 no bitching etc fair play makes a change.

[Guest AngelicAcid]

Good thread, definately makes a change, and some sound rules.

hopefully the thread will keep going.

[skinthegoat 26]

"These is a code of cinduct that the NWTF and the FMWTC do not teach young terrier men, not that these morals or principles need to be laid down, they are as follows

 

1 when given a terrier in good faith and you want to breed from it have the decency to ask the previous owner

 

2 Ask the previous owner if he/she wants a pup

 

3 Ask the owner about where surplus pups should go"

 

If I was given a pup or an adult, I think out of respect to the breeder and the gesture. 1,2&3 would come naturally.

 

 

Probably the best piece read on here since joining b.butvery few lads will stick to it thats prob why not too many of older chaps will give dogs away anymore and a lot of people are too quick to forget the ones who help them out that goe3s for all breeds

[chezney 44]

i dont understand the bit do not teach young terrier men

[Bosun11 537]

Good posts and good to have you back m.r1

[Guest AngelicAcid]

Chez, i thinks its more of an unwritten rule, but one everyone should stick to and honour.