Reform

[WILF 51,019]

2 minutes ago, chartpolski said:

Of course I could be wrong, but I’ve only heard Farage say he is 100% against digital ID. If he DID say that if the money had been spent implementing it , he would only use it for immigrants and not the general population, that seems pretty sensible to me.

It seems sensible because that’s how it’s meant to sound…..in reality it’s not doing away with it…..that is dishonest and dishonesty before you are even elected should have everyone’s spider senses tingling.

Let’s say for arguments sake reform can be trusted with digital ID but they only get one term, who’s the next bloke who gets control of it ?……

2 minutes ago, chartpolski said:

As for the status quo, no, I’m not for it, that’s why I will vote for Reform in the hope they will overturn the status quo.

But you will be electing many of exactly the same people, if that isn’t status quo then what is mate ?

2 minutes ago, chartpolski said:

Wilf, I get that you think they are all the same, but you still don’t give me any viable alternative under the present system .

I like to thing I’ll label someone the same when their words and actions show that’s what they are…..it’s the feeling I’m getting about reform and I don’t want to get left with egg on my face again, hopefully I’m wrong and I’ll be more than happy to be wrong but we should no longer be handing out easy rides 

2 minutes ago, chartpolski said:

”Possible improvement is better than impossible perfection” , I don’t know who said that; maybe I just made it up

Cheers.

 

If you did, bravo old chap, it’s a cracker 

ATB as always 

[chartpolski 28,423]

1 minute ago, Daniel cain said:

Don't sit right with me...allowing the same clowns that have f****d us...back in , under a different nameI have a feeling that if Reform do get in....they will sell us out quicker than any other party before them.... they will go down in history for it....watch this space

I think if Reform take power they will have an almighty battle on their hands with the Establishment, the Judiciary and the legacy media, but more so with the Civil Service who will do everything they can to obfuscate, obstruct,  hinder and even ignore Ministerial instructions, just as they did with Brexit. 
Changing the “status quo” won’t be easy, but I’d rather vote for someone who will try than the present legacy parties.

Cheers.

[WILF 51,019]

7 minutes ago, TRUEBRIT66 said:

Isn't that happening though Darren Grimes, David Bull, Vanessa Frake and Collin Sutton for example ?

I don't think its great look having so many Tories coming across but how many of these council defections are right of the Tories and feel Reform are a better fit, we don't know them, they are not known faces and never had Reform as an option previously.  Truthfully I think Reform need some "career politicians" in the ranks, people who are aware of the workings of things, what would be good is a few more Labour defections to really shake things up.   

I’ve had a lot of discussion and dealings with local politicians before I moved mate and here is the word “Integrity” !!…….none of them had a f***ing shred of it !

If they did they wouldn’t have been part of the apparatus that betrayed everyone. 

[THE STIFFMEISTER 17,469]

1 minute ago, chartpolski said:

I think if Reform take power they will have an almighty battle on their hands with the Establishment, the Judiciary and the legacy media, but more so with the Civil Service who will do everything they can to obfuscate, obstruct,  hinder and even ignore Ministerial instructions, just as they did with Brexit. 
Changing the “status quo” won’t be easy, but I’d rather vote for someone who will try than the present legacy parties.

Cheers.

In short 

Democracy would be ignored due to personal bias 

[chartpolski 28,423]

2 minutes ago, WILF said:

It seems sensible because that’s how it’s meant to sound…..in reality it’s not doing away with it…..that is dishonest and dishonesty before you are even elected should have everyone’s spider senses tingling.

Let’s say for arguments sake reform can be trusted with digital ID but they only get one term, who’s the next bloke who gets control of it ?……

But you will be electing many of exactly the same people, if that isn’t status quo then what is mate ?

I like to thing I’ll label someone the same when their words and actions show that’s what they are…..it’s the feeling I’m getting about reform and I don’t want to get left with egg on my face again, hopefully I’m wrong and I’ll be more than happy to be wrong but we should no longer be handing out easy rides 

If you did, bravo old chap, it’s a cracker 

ATB as always 

As always, I’ll respect your views and opinions even though I may not necessarily agree with them

Cheers.

[WILF 51,019]

2 minutes ago, chartpolski said:

As always, I’ll respect your views and opinions even though I may not necessarily agree with them

Cheers.

Likewise mate, in a nutshell all I’m saying to anyone is don’t blindly follow these people into another scam just because we are drowning, make them f***ing work for it. 
 

As always, a stimulating and interesting conversation old chap. 

[TRUEBRIT66 2,187]

7 minutes ago, WILF said:

I’ve had a lot of discussion and dealings with local politicians before I moved mate and here is the word “Integrity” !!…….none of them had a f***ing shred of it !

If they did they wouldn’t have been part of the apparatus that betrayed everyone. 

Thing is mate we aren’t all built to be councillors or politicians it takes a certain type of person.

When I had my spat with the local mayor over his comments on immigration I offered to meet him face to face but he counter offered me the chance to be voted in to the council and change things via the democratic route. He knew he had me, I don’t have the time, patience or more importantly the temperament to be a councillor, Its was easy for me to question him but I wouldn’t put my “money where my mouth was” so to speak.

Unfortunately that’s the way politics is it wont really change because the majority of people who take the political route want to do it for themselves rather than for the people, the ones who do it for the people are labelled as activists and tarred accordingly.

Its shit that we just have to choose which are the the ones we align to the most and keep our fingers crossed.         

[WILF 51,019]

2 minutes ago, TRUEBRIT66 said:

Thing is mate we aren’t all built to be councillors or politicians it takes a certain type of person.

When I had my spat with the local mayor over his comments on immigration I offered to meet him face to face but he counter offered me the chance to be voted in to the council and change things via the democratic route. He knew he had me, I don’t have the time, patience or more importantly the temperament to be a councillor, Its was easy for me to question him but I wouldn’t put my “money where my mouth was” so to speak.

Unfortunately that’s the way politics is it wont really change because the majority of people who take the political route want to do it for themselves rather than for the people, the ones who do it for the people are labelled as activists and tarred accordingly.

It’s shit that we just have to choose which are the the ones we align to the most and keep our fingers crossed.         

100% agreed……. so, imho, the thing we can do is make it very hard and hopefully that helps weed out as many pricks as possible. 

[WILF 51,019]

31 minutes ago, chartpolski said:

I think if Reform take power they will have an almighty battle on their hands with the Establishment, the Judiciary and the legacy media, but more so with the Civil Service who will do everything they can to obfuscate, obstruct,  hinder and even ignore Ministerial instructions, just as they did with Brexit. 
Changing the “status quo” won’t be easy, but I’d rather vote for someone who will try than the present legacy parties.

Cheers.

And there would be a massive policy statement !…..

Blair changed the nature of Britain and how it is governed fundamentally, he basically did away with the Britain we all knew and imagine we still live in and implemented something else.

If reform said “We will repeal every law and act Blair ever put in place and restore Britain to its former relationship between the government and the governed” then that would really be something…..that would go a massive way to giving many of us back the nation we want……

It would put the faceless blob who really rule Britain back in their box 

But reform are not making those kind of bold, fresh, unapologetic claims or promises like say Trump would or indeed has, they are just weak as piss !……..we already have weak as piss don’t we mate.

Edited 8 hours ago by WILF

[mackem 29,961]

Farage is in court today,the case of an illegal immigrant making threats to kill while still in Europe.

reuters.com

WWW.REUTERS.COM

 

[TRUEBRIT66 2,187]

20 minutes ago, mackem said:

Farage is in court today,the case of an illegal immigrant making threats to kill while still in Europe.

reuters.com

WWW.REUTERS.COM

 

Well considering 3 chaps from Epping that were involved in the unrest got longer sentences than the migrant that sexually assaulted the 14yr old girl I doubt Fayaz Khan will end up with nothing more than a stern telling off.  

[jukel123 9,667]

4 hours ago, mackem said:

My take on that is a little different Juk,Farage “Mr Brexit” is an easy scapegoat “It’s Farages fault we can’t return the boat people because he promoted and got brexit through”.Prior to Brexit how many were returned to France after arriving in the UK on Lorry’s (the common method pre-boats)?Do you have the stats?

I actually had a premonition,an inkling boats would be used to cross the channel back in 2015,I have been to Calais a few times,saw the hordes waiting their chance in trucks,but security was tightening up and it was a slow method of moving people and your bottlenecked in,funnelled through the port with border farce,dogs and CO2 probes.2015 I heard of the huge number of Syrians flowing across the eastern med from turkey to Greece in small boats,I remember thinking that would be the ideal method to cross the channel,the evolution of illegal immigrant movement,Farage in my mind didn’t produce the channel boats,opportunity and experience did.

The boat people make up only about 3% of immigrants annually. It's always been an irrelevance. And most are given leave to stay anyway.

But it's the great symbol of invaded, pissed of Britain. And it keeps The Daily Mail, permanently offended brigade happy .

When you go into any negotiation you must do your research and tie up loose ends. For example, before you tender for a job, the client will present you with a ten page list of clauses full of eventualities which your workmen are responsible for. I used to present them with a similar list checked by legal people to cover myself. It's basic survival.

Farage and Johnstone did not negotiate about the Dublin 111 agreement. They just sold the bare idea of brexit and told lies, one of which that we would spend  350 million a week to improve the NHS.

Complete shambolic incompetents.

 

 

[chartpolski 28,423]

1 minute ago, jukel123 said:

The boat people make up only about 3% of immigrants annually. It's always been an irrelevance. And most are given leave to stay anyway.

But it's the great symbol of invaded, pissed of Britain. And it keeps The Daily Mail, permanently offended brigade happy .

When you go into any negotiation you must do your research and tie up loose ends. For example, before you tender for a job, the client will present you with a ten page list of clauses full of eventualities which your workmen are responsible for. I used to present them with a similar list checked by legal people to cover myself. It's basic survival.

Farage and Johnstone did not negotiate about the Dublin 111 agreement. They just sold the bare idea of brexit and told lies, one of which that we would spend  350 million a week to improve the NHS.

Complete shambolic incompetents.

 

 

How could Farage negotiate the Dublin Agreement?

He wasn’t even an MP, let alone in government .

Yes, Johnson and the Tory’s made a complete mess of Brexit, but the Brexit we got wasn’t the one Farage wanted.

You can hate him all you want, but he isn’t to blame for the Tory’s abysmal surrender deal with the EU.

Cheers.

[mackem 29,961]

3 minutes ago, jukel123 said:

The boat people make up only about 3% of immigrants annually. It's always been an irrelevance. And most are given leave to stay anyway.

Irrespective of this is still believe the boats are evolution spawned by the 2015 syrian/afghan/pakistan boat invasion of Greece from Turkey,some of that was organised by people smugglers from Iraq,the same people as has been reported have organised migrant channel boat crossings,Farage in my mind didn't spawn the crossings 1+1=2 

[mackem 29,961]

9 minutes ago, jukel123 said:

Farage and Johnstone did not negotiate about the Dublin 111 agreement. They just sold the bare idea of brexit and told lies

What % of illegals crossing to the UK prior to brexit from France were returned back to France when apprehended as per the Dublin agreement?