Starmer

[chartpolski 27,356]

13 minutes ago, Pardus said:

I don't see the problem, how have things improved outside the EU, I posted a graph saying the opposite, net immigration from 3rd world regions has risen fourfold, so much for taking back control of our borders.

The problem is we voted “to leave the EU and all its institutions “. We didn’t, because the establishment were remainers and Brexit has never been fully implemented. Both the Tory’s and Labour didn’t want Brexit, Cameron only allowed the referendum because he thought it would fail. 
The political cadre and civil service and legacy media have never accepted the vote and have tried everything to reverse it, this is just their latest move, they could stop mass immigration tomorrow if they wanted to, but the Treasury sees it as improving GDP, which it does , at the expense of GDP PER CAPITA .

Votes don’t matter…if the Establishment doesn’t like the result, they will ignore or change it….  
Cheers.

[Pardus 1,609]

9 minutes ago, chartpolski said:

The problem is we voted “to leave the EU and all its institutions “. We didn’t, because the establishment were remainers and Brexit has never been fully implemented. Both the Tory’s and Labour didn’t want Brexit, Cameron only allowed the referendum because he thought it would fail. 
The political cadre and civil service and legacy media have never accepted the vote and have tried everything to reverse it, this is just their latest move, they could stop mass immigration tomorrow if they wanted to, but the Treasury sees it as improving GDP, which it does , at the expense of GDP PER CAPITA .

Votes don’t matter…if the Establishment doesn’t like the result, they will ignore or change it….  
Cheers.

We didn't though really did we, the question was should we remain a member of the EU or should we leave, the question didn't specify if we wanted a soft Brexit or a hard Brexit.

Leaving could be interpreted in different ways, I can remember some campaigners asking for a Norway style exit, outside the EU but inside the Single Market.

The claim that immigration reduces GDP per capita is debatable. The migrant workforce tends to be younger and pay more in taxes than they take out. 

[chartpolski 27,356]

Just now, Pardus said:

We didn't though really did we, the question was should we remain a member of the EU or should we leave, the question didn't specify if we wanted a soft Brexit or a hard Brexit.

Leaving could be interpreted in different ways, I can remember some campaigners asking for a Norway style exit, outside the EU but inside the Single Market.

The claim that immigration reduces GDP per capita is debatable. The migrant workforce tends to be younger and pay more in taxes than they take out. 

No, I think you’ll find the motion was “to leave the EU and all its institutions “. I’ll not argue or dispute it , but that’s what I voted for. 
It’s an indisputable fact that mass immigration raises GDP but reduces GDP PER CAPITA. You may dispute it but no one else does. 
Anyhow, it’s just my opinion, others may have different opinions and I can respect them without agreeing with them .

Cheers.

[Pardus 1,609]

Just now, chartpolski said:

No, I think you’ll find the motion was “to leave the EU and all its institutions “. I’ll not argue or dispute it , but that’s what I voted for. 
It’s an indisputable fact that mass immigration raises GDP but reduces GDP PER CAPITA. You may dispute it but no one else does. 
Anyhow, it’s just my opinion, others may have different opinions and I can respect them without agreeing with them .

Cheers.

Again, you're missing out on the context, depending on your views depends on what Brexit you wanted, what did the leave campaign guarantee that they haven't followed through with? The question was simply should we remain in or leave the EU, the details were left to interpretation?

Would you care to post a source citing this indisputable fact that EU immigration reduced GDP per capita, I'd like to see the figures showing so? 

[chartpolski 27,356]

Just now, Pardus said:

Again, you're missing out on the context, depending on your views depends on what Brexit you wanted, what did the leave campaign guarantee that they haven't followed through with? The question was simply should we remain in or leave the EU, the details were left to interpretation?

Would you care to post a source citing this indisputable fact that EU immigration reduced GDP per capita, I'd like to see the figures showing so? 

No, I believe what I understand, I’ve had plenty of fruitless arguments with people close to me that voted to remain, I’ve had plenty of discussions on here that just go round in circles.

If you believe different to me, that’s fine , as I say, I can accept that without agree with it.

As far as I’m concerned, the Brexit I and millions of others voted for wasn’t implemented by the powers that be because it’s not what THEY wanted.

Im sure you can find all the information you need on line.

Cheers.

[Lenmcharristar 10,235]

Voting means out in its entirety, not half flap ffs, thats why i voted out

[Pardus 1,609]

16 minutes ago, chartpolski said:

No, I believe what I understand, I’ve had plenty of fruitless arguments with people close to me that voted to remain, I’ve had plenty of discussions on here that just go round in circles.

If you believe different to me, that’s fine , as I say, I can accept that without agree with it.

As far as I’m concerned, the Brexit I and millions of others voted for wasn’t implemented by the powers that be because it’s not what THEY wanted.

Im sure you can find all the information you need on line.

Cheers.

Again, what you interpret as out is not the same as the next man's. As I pointed out, for you the Brexit hasn't been hard enough, for others wanting a softer Brexit like the Norway model, it was too hard.

As for the GDP per capita claim, I have looked online and from what I have read, it states the opposite to your claims, I'm happy to post the sources if you would like to continue?

[Pardus 1,609]

9 minutes ago, Lenmcharristar said:

Voting means out in its entirety, not half flap ffs, thats why i voted out

No it doesn't, or else if that was the case Norway wouldn't be still in the Single Market would it?

[chartpolski 27,356]

2 hours ago, Pardus said:

No it doesn't, or else if that was the case Norway wouldn't be still in the Single Market would it?

Norway has never been a member of the EU. So it has never voted to leave something it was never in. Completely different to the UK which was a member and voted to leave. 

It has twice had referendums to join and voted against both times. It joined EFTA, a European free trade agreement, that’s why it is in the single market. 
Switzerland also had a bespoke agreement with the EU without being a member.

The UK voted to leave in its entirety and should have done that. 
Joining EFTA and the single market could have been voted on after we left the EU but wasn’t considered suitable for us as it would mean we would be a rule taker with no say in making the rules.

Starmer is about to sell us out without a vote making us rule takes because of his “dynamic realignment “. 
Cheers.

[mackay 3,580]

3 hours ago, Pardus said:

I don't see the problem, how have things improved outside the EU, I posted a graph saying the opposite, net immigration from 3rd world regions has risen fourfold, so much for taking back control of our borders.

Things haven't improved because we haven't actually had brexit. Add to that we are being punished for having the audacity to actually try and leave in the hope that people will think we were better in the eu. Seems to have worked with you.

[Pardus 1,609]

17 minutes ago, chartpolski said:

Norway has never been a member of the EU. So it has never voted to leave something it was never in. Completely different to the UK which was a member and voted to leave. 

It has twice had referendums to join and voted against both times. It joined EFTA, a European free trade agreement, that’s why it is in the single market. 
Switzerland also had a bespoke agreement with the EU without being a member.

The UK voted to leave in its entirety and should have done that. 
Joining EFTA and the single market could have been voted on after we left the EU but wasn’t considered suitable for us as it would mean we would be a rule taker with no say in making the rules.

Starmer is about to sell us out without a vote making us rule takes because of his “dynamic realignment “. 
Cheers.

Correct, but many were calling for the Norway solution over here and to you that would be too soft of a Brexit. 

And no it didn't give details on whether this would be a hard or soft Brexit, the ballot paper simply stated "Should the UK remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union."

The vote didn't specify how the UK should leave, it didn't state what that entails, we did end up leaving the Single Market, the Customs Union, what part of Brexit aren't you happy with when immigration has risen fourfold due migration outside the EU, this is nothing to do with the EU?

Edited May 17 by Pardus

[Pardus 1,609]

14 minutes ago, mackay said:

Things haven't improved because we haven't actually had brexit. Add to that we are being punished for having the audacity to actually try and leave in the hope that people will think we were better in the eu. Seems to have worked with you.

We haven't had Brexit? Have I missed something here?

[mackay 3,580]

1 minute ago, Pardus said:

We haven't had Brexit? Have I missed something here?

If you actually think the brexit the British public voted for has been carried out then yes, you have missed something.

[Pardus 1,609]

4 minutes ago, mackay said:

If you actually think the brexit the British public voted for has been carried out then yes, you have missed something.

Come on then what did we vote for and what didn't we get?

[chartpolski 27,356]

2 minutes ago, Pardus said:

Correct, but many were calling for the Norway solution over here and to you that would be too soft of a Brexit. 

And no it didn't give details on whether this would be a hard or soft Brexit, the ballot paper simply stated "Should the UK remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union."

The vote didn't specify how the UK should leave, it didn't state what that entails, we did end up leaving the Single Market, the Customs Union, what part of Brexit aren't you happy with when immigration has risen fourfold from migrants outside the EU?

You can’t conflate legal immigration with leaving the EU. 
Our own Government controls legal immigration , they issue visas and could just as easily refuse visas, but the won’t. It’s nothing to do with the EU since we left; we took control of our own borders but if the government doesn’t want to control them it’s not the EU’s fault.

When we were in the EU , over 400 million people had the right to freedom of movement that we had no control over. That has stopped since we left, but Starmer is going to reinstate it, albeit for under 30’s,  but the EU is pushing for it to be under 40’s. 
What part of Brexit am I unhappy bout ? 
Well the Northern Ireland situation to start with ! Boris said there would be no border between GB and NI in the Irish Sea, but that’s exactly what we got !

NI is still under certain EU rules and regulations and how on earth has it come about that I can take my dogs or horses to Wales, Scotland, England without the EU’s rules but I can’t take them to NI , a constitutional part of the UK ?

The United Kingdom and Northern Ireland voted as a whole to leave the EU, so why is NI still subject to the EU’s rules and regulations ? 
It’s a rhetorical question , I know the answer, they were sold out by the Tory’s and the rest of us are about to be sold out by Labour !

Cheers.