mackem 24,029 Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 5 hours ago, NEWKID said: When I first got up on steel I was 19 and the bloke I worked for had me and my brother (completely inexperienced) climbing the steels, no cherry pickers, holding onto crane chains to support yourself, 40ft up and nothing to stop you falling, not even a harness ffs I was exactly the same 30 odd year ago,didn’t even need hard hat nor steel toecaps,at times I wore baseball boots as they gave a better grip when on the girders. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
king 11,681 Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 In the quarrys they use a ticket named "MPQC" for plant etc.. Once the quarry have put you through that they have covered themselves for liability issues etc.. The quarry manager was telling us that on another 1 of the companies quarry's..a guy was sweeping out the back of his lorry and walking backwards while sweeping he fell of the back and broke his leg...how stupid can you actually be ffs.. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NEWKID 26,379 Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 5 hours ago, mackem said: I was exactly the same 30 odd year ago,didn’t even need hard hat nor steel toecaps,at times I wore baseball boots as they gave a better grip when on the girders. Great pic... I came on the end of those days, 95/96 I think? safety changed it all really...but in the main for the better in our game.. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mackem 24,029 Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 3 minutes ago, NEWKID said: Great pic... I came on the end of those days, 95/96 I think? safety changed it all really...but in the main for the better in our game.. I realised it wasn’t my game,but enjoyed the experience. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NEWKID 26,379 Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 5 minutes ago, mackem said: I realised it wasn’t my game,but enjoyed the experience. I've stuck my fingers in a few other pies in the last 10 years or so, but for 25 years since we first set up on our own the building game has been good to us, in the main... its certainly not for everyone, and I've seen it from pretty much every side (labourer to running a half decent sized firm), it's smaller now, manageable, maybe even enjoyable again! Lol... we don't chase work, haven't advertised for years, and are fully booked for 12 months, I don't have sleepless nights about it anymore, but I've had plenty over the years! 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
eastcoast 3,758 Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 It's all about respect, mutual respect. The most important bit of advice that I was given when 1st tasked with managing men was, "never forget that the lads are your most important resource. Be a c**t and they will f**k you up, be too soft and they will f**k you up". A bit off topic but relevant to the H&S culture on construction sites these days. I believe that the massive changes that I have witnessed over the years have been for the good, but it is how they are implemented and the competency of the people who implement them that in many situations is where it falls down. We recently completed a project where the principal contractor had a 100% ban on use of stepladders. Fair enough, par for the course these days and the company that I work for have a similar policy, but not a 100% ban. Coming to the end of the project (2 years in) I sounded them out about use of stepladders for commissioning works. A man removing a ceiling tile, plugging his testing instrument in, getting a reading, then moving on. Despite talks at director level and concise specific RAMS being produced the answer still came back as no. Build a mobile scaffold tower or use a MEWP. End of. As soon as we started commissioning questions came in as to when the lighting would be turned on so that they could remove the temps and provide a better level of lighting for the finishing trades. What? Introduce voltages higher than 110V onto a construction site? Surely you jest? And then we got to use stepladders for commissioning works. 5 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 44,511 Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 11 hours ago, eastcoast said: It's all about respect, mutual respect. The most important bit of advice that I was given when 1st tasked with managing men was, "never forget that the lads are your most important resource. Be a c**t and they will f**k you up, be too soft and they will f**k you up". A bit off topic but relevant to the H&S culture on construction sites these days. I believe that the massive changes that I have witnessed over the years have been for the good, but it is how they are implemented and the competency of the people who implement them that in many situations is where it falls down. We recently completed a project where the principal contractor had a 100% ban on use of stepladders. Fair enough, par for the course these days and the company that I work for have a similar policy, but not a 100% ban. Coming to the end of the project (2 years in) I sounded them out about use of stepladders for commissioning works. A man removing a ceiling tile, plugging his testing instrument in, getting a reading, then moving on. Despite talks at director level and concise specific RAMS being produced the answer still came back as no. Build a mobile scaffold tower or use a MEWP. End of. As soon as we started commissioning questions came in as to when the lighting would be turned on so that they could remove the temps and provide a better level of lighting for the finishing trades. What? Introduce voltages higher than 110V onto a construction site? Surely you jest? And then we got to use stepladders for commissioning works. Good post. Most of my interaction with this world was right at the end of construction works, but the culture permeates beyond that. Bottom line is, nonsense costs money……which is totally fine as long as they are willing to foot the bill. When presented with nonsense I would always cost accordingly and to the stupidest degree because that is where you have to assume someone is taking things if that’s all they have to worry about. 75% (at least) of the time the person talking nonsense would be shuffled off to some other non job and thing would all go back to sanity, especially when they realise that the supplier isn’t going to pick up the bill for nonsense and the client has to pay. Box ticking is what it is, plain and simple…..I mean step ladders for fucks sake !…..that’s a great example of insanity. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tatsblisters 8,142 Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 11 hours ago, eastcoast said: It's all about respect, mutual respect. The most important bit of advice that I was given when 1st tasked with managing men was, "never forget that the lads are your most important resource. Be a c**t and they will f**k you up, be too soft and they will f**k you up". A bit off topic but relevant to the H&S culture on construction sites these days. I believe that the massive changes that I have witnessed over the years have been for the good, but it is how they are implemented and the competency of the people who implement them that in many situations is where it falls down. We recently completed a project where the principal contractor had a 100% ban on use of stepladders. Fair enough, par for the course these days and the company that I work for have a similar policy, but not a 100% ban. Coming to the end of the project (2 years in) I sounded them out about use of stepladders for commissioning works. A man removing a ceiling tile, plugging his testing instrument in, getting a reading, then moving on. Despite talks at director level and concise specific RAMS being produced the answer still came back as no. Build a mobile scaffold tower or use a MEWP. End of. As soon as we started commissioning questions came in as to when the lighting would be turned on so that they could remove the temps and provide a better level of lighting for the finishing trades. What? Introduce voltages higher than 110V onto a construction site? Surely you jest? And then we got to use stepladders for commissioning works. Like WILF says great post mate we have a good manager at the moment who last worked at Fichers in Leicestershire only gripe I have with him is he can be to soft especially on smoker's who some times have up to 45 minutes in smoke breaks wile those of us who don't are slogging our guts out as it's job and done. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
king 11,681 Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 35 minutes ago, WILF said: Good post. Most of my interaction with this world was right at the end of construction works, but the culture permeates beyond that. Bottom line is, nonsense costs money……which is totally fine as long as they are willing to foot the bill. When presented with nonsense I would always cost accordingly and to the stupidest degree because that is where you have to assume someone is taking things if that’s all they have to worry about. 75% (at least) of the time the person talking nonsense would be shuffled off to some other non job and thing would all go back to sanity, especially when they realise that the supplier isn’t going to pick up the bill for nonsense and the client has to pay. Box ticking is what it is, plain and simple…..I mean step ladders for fucks sake !…..that’s a great example of insanity. A man is more likely to fall from a step ladder than a mobile scaffolding tower..that's all there interested in is zero accidents and zero liability claims..+ it looks good when company's are tendering for jobs with a zero accident record. A fatality on site and the manager is going to have H&S going through every single procedure that's in place for safe working practices.. So from the managers point of view he would sooner have the job slowed down to erect a .mobile tower.than have you climb a step ladder to change a light bulb which has a risk of an accident. I'm all for H&S the job will last longer which is obviously more work for the workers plus a safer working environment.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chaff 3,415 Posted February 10 Author Report Share Posted February 10 9 minutes ago, king said: A man is more likely to fall from a step ladder than a mobile scaffolding tower..that's all there interested in is zero accidents and zero liability claims..+ it looks good when company's are tendering for jobs with a zero accident record. A fatality on site and the manager is going to have H&S going through every single procedure that's in place for safe working practices.. So from the managers point of view he would sooner have the job slowed down to erect a .mobile tower.than have you climb a step ladder to change a light bulb which has a risk of an accident. I'm all for H&S the job will last longer which is obviously more work for the workers plus a safer working environment.. Your right mate, but when your on price and get paid for what you get done. It can be a right pain walking up and down stairs all day to cut a tile because your not allowed a wet cutter inside that produce no dust or danger. It gets frustrating Quote Link to post Share on other sites
king 11,681 Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 10 minutes ago, Chaff said: Your right mate, but when your on price and get paid for what you get done. It can be a right pain walking up and down stairs all day to cut a tile because your not allowed a wet cutter inside that produce no dust or danger. It gets frustrating That's it mate. Its got its good points and bad I suppose..but it is what it is.. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 44,511 Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 The Fred Dibnahs of this world built Britain, not lads who need a scaffold to change a light bulb ! Lol 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Greyman 25,836 Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 It’s gone beyond keeping people safe it’s all about being able to pass the buck down the ladder for any accident, another thing HSE is funded by fines so it’s in there interest to persecute every poor sap they get in there grips, 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 44,511 Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 12 minutes ago, Greyman said: It’s gone beyond keeping people safe it’s all about being able to pass the buck down the ladder for any accident, another thing HSE is funded by fines so it’s in there interest to persecute every poor sap they get in there grips, The story of socialist Britain & Europe, transferring money from the productive to the non productive ! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NEWKID 26,379 Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 (edited) pretty much why I won't go near the big Main contractors or major works, I'm all for sensible H&S, We've employed hundreds of lads of the years, and had no major incidents and no fatalities, a firm down the road (more agricultural) has had 2 fatalities in the last 12 years plus my brothers, brother in law (who left us to work with them) fell 30ft through a roof light, god knows how he lived but he did and he's fine.... they take the "Fred Dibnha" approach to safety, no scaffold, no nets, cut costs and kill lads, "get up there lads, what are you a chicken!!"... nah not for me, I'd rather make a couple quid less, lose a couple of jobs on price then have that on my conscience... but... the absolute bullshit rules that are killing the game as a tick box for HSE is a joke.. good mate of mine, same trade (trained with us) works on the big sites, travels a lot.. he was on one where safety goggles had to be worn at all times, it was pissing with rain, they are laying the roof and can't see a thing.. one of his lads takes his glasses off and the site manager see's him, instant red card and asked to leave site... he'd rather you can't see a f***ing thing and fall off the roof than wear goggles when they aren't even required... bullshit!! Edited February 10 by NEWKID 8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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