Pure beeds where would you be without them ?

[juckler123 707]

4 hours ago, chartpolski said:

Interesting what you say about "Middle East lurchers".

Some years back I was with Hamed Ghunaim at his Arabian Saluki Centre in Abu Dhabi and two men from Oman arrived to have a bitch mated with one of his dogs. He refused to let the mating take place because they couldn't prove the lineage of their bitch.

He told me that when they started racing the Salukis out there, some owners added greyhound, but this was banned and dogs were DNA tested to keep the breed pure.

Cheers.

The Arabs have taken many UK dogs back I have seen four of Hamads hounds run they lacked a gear for  here in the UK but better turner's and more stamina than our UK hounds I don't believe in the DNA rubbish to be honest a sighthound is a sighthound they one million percent cannot tell Afghan Azawak and Sloughi from Saluki I have friends that do this for a living and I think Hamads hounds have a fair bit of all sorts in them with all respect he's a puppy miller no more no less

[juckler123 707]

4 minutes ago, chartpolski said:

Getting back to the question; "pure breeds, where would we be without them"; well, without the base running breeds, greyhounds, whippets, Deerhounds, Salukis, etc, its simple......we wouldn't have lurchers !

Theres a school of thought that lurchers are now fast enough to not need any addition of running dog, and I can go along with that, but personally I like to see an outcross to a pure now and again, if only to add a bit of hybrid vigour.

Youve now got the likes of the coursing dogs and the non-ped whippets that are almost recognisable as separate breeds from the lurcher and the whippet, and could be utilised as a base breed instead of the traditional " pures".

Just my own personal opinion on an excellent thread.

Cheers.

That's a top post pal good on you

[juckler123 707]

2 hours ago, Shadow100 said:

I agree with that about producing lines, but where I think people go wrong is saying “it’s not done much that dog but it’s really well bred”. How many times can you do that before you end up having to go 3 or 4 generations back to find a dog that was actually tested properly. 

A good line it’s a great thing, but if the lads aren’t testing the stock on the ground at the moment it won’t stay a good line for long, it’s grandparents can kill for it. 

Suppose there’s a lot more to it that just killing ability though, a dog can be really injury prone but if the owner doesn’t run it enough to find out they’ll never know. Then they breed from it and it passes those qualities down to its pups and so on. 

Breeding pups is a lottery at the best of times but if people are breeding off dogs that been out once a month theyd be as well saving themselves the bother & buying something out the countrymans weekly 

Another top post Shadow I one million percent agree bud

[juckler123 707]

3 hours ago, two crows said:

well said, but as I have said be fore  good hare killers with no good breeding often don't produce, you cant beat generations of good blood and I  AM NOT saying breed from untested stock, but trust the blood. and as for having lurcher blood that's where it all began.

Another I agree with pal they have to have generations of tested ancestors to be any good yes you get freaks but they often don't produce seen it a lot and had to deal with it a few times in my own life.

I favour the pures but only certain ones to be fair they have if bred right been off lead killing for forty plus years and are definitely not thick nor lacking anything but it is the man behind the lead that also makes a massive difference I gift pups I've bred I'd sooner have them in a home I know they will thrive

[chartpolski 20,414]

15 minutes ago, juckler123 said:

The Arabs have taken many UK dogs back I have seen four of Hamads hounds run they lacked a gear for  here in the UK but better turner's and more stamina than our UK hounds I don't believe in the DNA rubbish to be honest a sighthound is a sighthound they one million percent cannot tell Afghan Azawak and Sloughi from Saluki I have friends that do this for a living and I think Hamads hounds have a fair bit of all sorts in them with all respect he's a puppy miller no more no less

I can't comment on Hamads dogs as I've never seen them run.

I can comment on him as a man; he was a friend of my late daughter, and I found him an honest, generous and a good man to talk about dogs with.

He offered me one of these pups as a gift, but due to circumstances at the time, I had to decline.

When I visited his Falconry Mews at Dubai racecourse, I came away loaded down with gifts, hoods, gloves, jesses, traps, and a signed copy of his book and a photo. 

Hamad, my daughter and myself at his hotel;

Cheers.

Edited May 31, 2020 by chartpolski

[juckler123 707]

3 hours ago, Shadow100 said:

I agree with that about producing lines, but where I think people go wrong is saying “it’s not done much that dog but it’s really well bred”. How many times can you do that before you end up having to go 3 or 4 generations back to find a dog that was actually tested properly. 

A good line it’s a great thing, but if the lads aren’t testing the stock on the ground at the moment it won’t stay a good line for long, it’s grandparents cant kill for it. 

Suppose there’s a lot more to it that just killing ability though, a dog can be really injury prone but if the owner doesn’t run it enough to find out they’ll never know. Then they breed from it and it passes those qualities down to its pups and so on. 

Breeding pups is a lottery at the best of times but if people are breeding off dogs that been out once a month theyd be as well saving themselves the bother & buying something out the countrymans weekly 

I used my own dog that had bad injury's Shadow but why I did was it was my fault he got injured I ran him on hills local and his speed was way too fast for turning on that  gradient he had a bad wrist injury and shoulder injury but was never lame when healed up he adjusted to his injury's and I put him to a slower bitch I owned like you rightly say breeding is a lottery for sure the best from a litter may not be the best at producing we just have to take a punt .

Have always only bred with an animal that's had at least five seasons running and been lucky with offspring testing them is the only way to go  you are spot on

[juckler123 707]

16 minutes ago, chartpolski said:

I can't comment on Hamads dogs as I've never seen them run.

I can comment on him as a man; he was a friend of my late daughter, and I found him an honest, generous and a good man to talk about dogs with.

He offered me one of these pups as a gift, but due to circumstances at the time, I had to decline.

When I visited his Falconry Mews at Dubai racecourse, I came away loaded down with gifts, hoods, gloves, jesses, traps, and a signed copy of his book and a photo. 

Hamad, my daughter and myself at his hotel;

Cheers.

Happy memories pal and  mint pics

thanks for sharing them

I have met him over here he has the breeds interest at heart that's for sure and that's what it should be about I do like the stamp he produces for sure they have a lot to offer especially for the tight bred English hounds  

[chartpolski 20,414]

Just now, juckler123 said:

Happy memories pal and  mint pics

thanks for sharing them

I have met him over here he has the breeds interest at heart that's for sure and that's what it should be about I do like the stamp he produces for sure they have a lot to offer especially for the tight bred English hounds  

I was supposed to meet him at the CLA a few year back, but I was abroad at the time and couldn't make it.

He gave me a DVD when I was out there of him and Makhtoum flying their birds at Bustards in Pakistan. 

This was one of Makhtoums birds that Hamad had in training;

Cheers.

[two crows 3,342]

jukler heres my daughters little pet, she came off a bitch a farmer found, it was in pup so don't know what father was, bitch looked like her

[juckler123 707]

2 hours ago, two crows said:

jukler heres my daughters little pet, she came off a bitch a farmer found, it was in pup so don't know what father was, bitch looked like her

I bet there is cruise in her she's a lovely parti coloured bitch I like neck rough she has too not pure but not far off for sure I bet she's a clever hound too. 

And bless the farmer not shooting her dam most would have truth be known . 

I would be happy taking her out pal

That's a mint happy ending for any hound nice one  

[two crows 3,342]

12 minutes ago, juckler123 said:

I bet there is cruise in her she's a lovely parti coloured bitch I like neck rough she has too not pure but not far off for sure I bet she's a clever hound too. 

And bless the farmer not shooting her dam most would have truth be known . 

I would be happy taking her out pal

That's a mint happy ending for any hound nice one  

she is and nippy

[chartpolski 20,414]

Getting back to Deerhounds, here's a few of my pals;

A leash of pups;

 

 

A pair of Adults;

 

 

This bitch could easily be mistaken for a half cross or a lurcher because of her colouring, conformation and size, but is 100% deerhound.

Cheers.

 

Edited May 31, 2020 by chartpolski

[dodger 2,664]

Very interesting n complex breeding and as everyone knows there's no guarantees what ever you do and depending on what you want to do but to just try and put the odds in your favour best you can..

Personally for me if looking for a pup and if I can I like a tight line bred dog put to an outcross and then go back to the same tight line later, or you can do it the other way round say a first cross for example then put that first cross to a tight line bred dog to save time depending on what you want to achieve, or I like a lurcher x lurcher dog put to another lurcher x lurcher dog but although they can be unrelated would like both dogs to be line bred with possible odd related dogs back down there lines to try and give chance of genes tying in together, two tight line bred dogs put together has more chance to keep the positive qualities but then as you know also the negatives so two tight bred dogs together would be fine but as said I'd be looking at the out cross at some point and then go back later, time consuming but great if you can get a pup off someone that has already put the time in.

Obviously two random dogs can produce and iv seen and liked lurcher x lurchers of unknown breeding and for me if the dog is good at its job then I don't care to much about the breeding of it but when looking into breeding pups or obtaining a pup from someone else yes I have and would take a chance depending on the situation but random matings makes things much more of a lottery than breeding already is so would always when possible try to put the odds in your favour best you can and also study the peds best you can to make sure that there is strong producers throughout it along with dogs that been tested and lasted followed  then by hopefully a good dose of good luck.

[two crows 3,342]

46 minutes ago, chartpolski said:

Getting back to Deerhounds, here's a few of my pals;

A leash of pups;

 

 

A pair of Adults;

 

 

This bitch could easily be mistaken for a half cross or a lurcher because of her colouring, conformation and size, but is 100% deerhound.

Cheers.

 

do they  work mate, and if so to what degree, look nice

[chartpolski 20,414]

13 minutes ago, two crows said:

do they  work mate, and if so to what degree, look nice

They aren't mine, so I can't comment on the amount of work they get, but I was offered the use of one when both my dogs were out of action, I still hope to take him up on that as I'd love to see a pure behind a hare or deer. 

Of course I'm not expecting them to compare with a purpose bred lurcher, but it would be fun seeing them on.

Cheers.