Indyref2

[The one 8,398]

Joe ive worked all my life now suddenly ive to work another 2 years till i can retire its that close i can almost touch it and i'm scared Wee jimmy krankies going to screw that up and im going to need to work till im 70 to cover shortfalls in her guess works because that's all they are guesses shes cant or wont give out whats going to happen after independance and does she care nope a hope in hell her salaries secure and WHEN not if but WHEN she fecks it all she can walk away with a guaranteed pension which will see her okay But what about us ? you think we can say scrub it we want to kiss and make up ? . i honestly think im better looking at the option of spending my retirement abroad Oh but wait most of the folk that retired to spain etc are now being forced to come back home because of her actions

 

You know every Scottish first minister has been caught out doing something and her time will come but it will be to late by the time shes exposed

[arcticgun 4,548]

We're fekked,

 

no oil,

no fishing,

no NHS,

no army,

no coastguard,

no fishery protection,

no financial service industry,

no police force shortly, due to more cuts,

 

.....we are a shortbread, whisky and tourist economy and we dont even do that well. We are leaving the Eu, nothing can stop that and we would have to re-apply, already been stated.

We dont have a currency, like it or not, the pound belongs to the bank of England and they have said we cant use it, so what do we do? Same as Cuba? Nicaragua? IS that who we want to be? Fekk sake, wake up Scotland, these SNP idiots are only interested in themselves, they will be running around making happy noises if they get independence....but they havnt even got a plan for it!

 

Its a nightmare, stockpile canned goods and bottled water, this country is going down the crapper......

Reality stinks don't it, no wonder they can sell daft made up figures at least they offer hope lol

[arcticgun 4,548]

 

 

 

Those numbers I have just told you are well below the expected economy for an EU member, so get that shite out of your head. (plus you lied about the 100billion)

 

You have provided zero facts, only bullshit from Kranky which you regurgitate.

 

As articgun said; you forget that those numbers are based on being part of the union

 

Answer me this.

 

What have you got to export? You're not exactly the breadbasket of the British isles are you :laugh: :laugh:

no facts, where do you get your facts on the scottish economy etc?

 

i said nearly 100 billion, it states that, inlcuding oil and gas... nearly billion without, you remember me saying many many times over a few years the scottish economy doesnt depend on oil and gas

 

we dont need seas of gold, we are a small nation...

 

WTO?????

 

if you choose to rubbish those figures based on us being a eu member, then you must be prepared to rubbish the no campains figures of an Iscotland, because they are all based on scotland being a member of the uk, spending, making the choices etc the uk want us to....

 

I get my info from global business sources. I trust them more than the bollocks paint job the SNP try to do to make it look good

 

Screen Shot 2017-03-30 at 13.41.48.png

 

This above is the ACTUAL truth from your own government PMSL :laugh:

 

You say you don't need oil/gas.... you ran at a deficit of 15 Billion last year that's nearly 40% of your post independence economy

 

Even with the money given to you via UK government you cannot sustain. Now bear in mind that the money given (Approx 33.18 billion) is clean, You don't have to worry about trade agreements, paying the EU, Paying NATO, paying UN etc etc

And you think the Scottish economy can cover all this?

Also bear in mind WTO is nothing like having direct trade agreements nor is it as bountiful

 

 

 

that graph is from the FT, when i used them as quotes in 2014, you rubbished them big time? can you pots a link to the Ft article please

 

are you saying the figures in the link i posted are 100% wrong?

 

as mentioned many times before, scotlands economy doesnt depend on the price of oil. since the oil price has dropped over the last few years the scottish economy was scarcely affected

 

artice 50 has been signed off the uk has two years to agree a trade deal with the rest of the eu. If it doesnt, it will have to trade anyway under WTO, the experts reckon that would be a very bad outcome?? one way or another the uk will trade with the eu, it will just be better terms for the eu, an independent scotland would be in the eu and therefore will continue with the rest of the uk as a eu member and would mostly likely get preferential terms.. the uk sells more to scotland than it buys, with all the trouble comming from brexit, the uk isnt going to cut off its noise to spite its face?

 

there wont ever be an independent Scotland, never in modern times has there been such a thing nor will there ever be, its been pointed out in facts and figures , the majority of Scots understood this well before they voted, as where they well aware that it was more than likely that we would be leaving the EU,

 

The only people left whinging are a few diehards here in UK and your Krankie and a not so bright minority, cant you see she has no real interest in gaining independence for Scotland (for all the reasons stated on this thread if not for history's sake) what she and the likes of her are doing is trying in any way possible t derail the breaking up of Europe, why? cos her paymasters know its the end of their retirement fund also loose the ability too blame any broken promise or defecits tax rise etc on Europe,in short if Europe goes so does many a cushty retirement or place on the board of banks conglomerates etc , she is only doing this too suit herself and her type, ffs its obvious too everyone else she leading you off a cliff, its suicidal to try to go it alone based on a few made up figures manipulated to death, scottish are far better than that

[Joe1888 672]

I am fully aware of what GERS is.

 

The graph posted was released by Scottish government officials.

 

You have avoided every single point I have made because you cannot come back on them.

 

P.s. here is your link read it carefully, there are some big words and complicated sentences

https://www.ft.com/content/7c6f8ca8-0807-11e7-97d1-5e720a26771b

 

Another interesting read;

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-22/scotland-demands-independence-vote-in-shadow-of-a-weaker-economy

 

Please can you tell me why you lied with your figures? or why you said that oil price had no impact on Scottish economy?

 

Thank you so much.

 

i dont agree with you made, i reckon ive made effort to answer you the best i can in most threads

 

its not letting me vue it now, think only allowed so many views a day unless subscribe? i will check back asap

 

that interesting read also uses the same figures you rubbished....

 

i did not lie, please quote me correct

 

on the subject of gers, do you know why they are estimates?

 

i did some googling to see how wrong i maybe on the catalonia subject, is this wrong?

 

"Although the aspirations of Catalonian independence are certainly valid and understandable and, by virtue of being a European independence movement, share a few traits with the Scottish one, it is important to stress what makes them different.

First, there is the legal issue.

There is no written constitution in the UK, England or Scotland and the Treaty of Union allows for any of its nation members to abandon the Union, making legally possible for Scotland to become independent.

However, the Spanish constitution makes it illegal for any of its autonomous communities to become independent. Therefore the attempts by the Catalonian Government to run a binding independence referendum are futile unless, of course, the constitution is amended or modified.

There is also the historical background: Scotland was an independent nation and a kingdom before the Act of Union. Catalunya was an autonomous Princedom under the Franks first and the Crown of Aragon later. With the union of the crowns of Castille and Aragon, a process of centralisation around Castille started and culminated in the victory of the French Bourbon dynasty at the end of the Spanish War of Succession where not only Catalunya, but also most of the other nations comprising the Crown of Aragon, were punished and deprived of their self-governing rule by being assimilated into French-supporting Castillian power.

As an Aragonese resident in Scotland for more than 16 years and a long-term supporter of Scottish independence, I can quite understand my Catalonian cousins’ efforts to achieve independence, but their journey is their own and, to this day, it remains quite a different one from our own here in Scotland."

[mackay 3,054]

Joe, what was the percentage of the vote for independence from the 16 and 17 year age groups.

Who, I might add should never had a vote in the first place, another wee snp ploy.

[Joe1888 672]

Joe, what was the percentage of the vote for independence from the 16 and 17 year age groups.

Who, I might add should never had a vote in the first place, another wee snp ploy.

i cannot remember the %s but its true there was more support from the younger generations, if the over 55/60 vote was removed scotland would have gained independence in 2014

 

they will have a vote again, and eu citizans thanks to the greens

[mushroom 12,393]

:laugh: You have consistently avoided my points because you are incapable of debating them without spouting the party line.

 

You lied by posting figures such as 100billion

 

The graphs show that your economy is basically on par with Venezuela or was that information to complex for you to understand.

 

If there is no legal obligation to remain part of the Union why have your lot not fuucked off yet???

 

Cataluña had it's own Aristocracy and leader (the count of Barcelona) but as the times dictated to strengthen ties and security, they married/made political ties into the Aragonese Royal house.... wtf do you think a Principality is? An independent nation entwined with another, just look at Andorra if you want an example of one.

 

Send me a link to the article you leached that bullshit from I have 10 mins and fancy a laugh

[Joe1888 672]

:laugh: You have consistently avoided my points because you are incapable of debating them without spouting the party line.

 

You lied by posting figures such as 100billion

 

The graphs show that your economy is basically on par with Venezuela or was that information to complex for you to understand.

 

If there is no legal obligation to remain part of the Union why have your lot not fuucked off yet???

 

Cataluña had it's own Aristocracy and leader (the count of Barcelona) but as the times dictated to strengthen ties and security, they married/made political ties into the Aragonese Royal house.... wtf do you think a Principality is? An independent nation entwined with another, just look at Andorra if you want an example of one.

 

Send me a link to the article you leached that bullshit from I have 10 mins and fancy a laugh

 

 

i said nearly billion without oil and gas, nearly 100 with, your own post shows that ffs.. you said i lied, saying oil didnt effect the scottish economy, you misquoted me yet again... all the posts are there mate

[C556 351]

Why on earth would OAP's not get the vote? That is the one group I would trust the most as they have a lifetime of knowledge and experience behind them, unlike naive and idealistic 16 and 17 year olds.

 

For anyone who rubbishes the GER's figures, I would recommend that you have a read through this to see how they're compiled:

https://fraserofallander.org/2017/03/28/estimating-scotlands-fiscal-position/amp/

[mushroom 12,393]

You said the oil had no effect. Your own gov stats says the opposite.

 

You have nowhere near 80billion ffs Joe pull your head out of your arse.

 

Plus you don't even know how much the oil is worth.

 

In the last 10-15 years the most annual revenue ever taken for oil is less than 12 Billion (10 years ago). Now it stands around 1.5-2 Billion. So even IF you believe the shite about Billion, you are way off 100. Would you like me to walk you through the maths? 82 happens to be 18 less than 100, now that isn't a lot is it until you start putting zeros after the 18 of course

[Joe1888 672]

You said the oil had no effect. Your own gov stats says the opposite.

 

You have nowhere near 80billion ffs Joe pull your head out of your arse.

 

Plus you don't even know how much the oil is worth.

 

In the last 10-15 years the most annual revenue ever taken for oil is less than 12 Billion (10 years ago). Now it stands around 1.5-2 Billion. So even IF you believe the shite about Billion, you are way off 100. Would you like me to walk you through the maths? 82 happens to be 18 less than 100, now that isn't a lot is it until you start putting zeros after the 18 of course

your still misquoting me, i did not say no effect

 

your own post shows the figures you rubbished from my eariler post

[Joe1888 672]

Why on earth would OAP's not get the vote? That is the one group I would trust the most as they have a lifetime of knowledge and experience behind them, unlike naive and idealistic 16 and 17 year olds.

 

For anyone who rubbishes the GER's figures, I would recommend that you have a read through this to see how they're compiled:

https://fraserofallander.org/2017/03/28/estimating-scotlands-fiscal-position/amp/

 

 

i read this before mate, its just this guys views but very interesting on gers

 

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017/03/15/more-on-why-gers-might-properly-be-called-crap-data/

[mushroom 12,393]

Scotland truly is fuucked

[secretagentmole 1,701]

 

For starters you would have no army or what you did have would have no weapons vehicles or equipment as it's all ours

 

One thing I will give sturgeon is the fact she is persistent they would do well too put her too use cleaning up day social services with the right aim she could possibly do some good fir the world instead of trying too divide an age old union

 

 

would you like to keep all the debt to? feel free to take trident aswell

 

We will not take a penny of Scottish debt. The oil is in UK territorial waters, besides, there are billions of barrels under Sussex that are much easier and cheaper to extract. Scottish oil is a busted flush!

[arcticgun 4,548]

Joe, what was the percentage of the vote for independence from the 16 and 17 year age groups.

Who, I might add should never had a vote in the first place, another wee snp ploy.

shows how serious it was taken allowing children to vote