Yes/no

[Chaff 3,415]

 

 

 

Bloody good write up by jeemes. Helped me get my head round it a bit better ,but why and when do things go wrong.I am thinking of plumbers line of lurchers. Thought you needed to outcross to refresh the gene pool.

Cheers

 

I think all families will need to outcross at some point,and that is where danger lies. When you have spent years purifying or narrowing your gene pool it is impossible to have your eye on everything and some things are unseen. You can inbreed to do good or bad. You are engineering nature and all inbreeding is doing for you is vastly speeding up natural selection. The responsibility for the right selection lies with you. When you outcross you allow in thousands of genes,some of which can undo all the good work you have done.If possible an out and out outcross should be avoided and distantly related dog to your existing family used.The offspring watched carefully for incoming faults and bred back into your strain.

Any faults with dogs are corrected best with inbreeding even if those faults were caused by poor inbreeding,and lets be clear we are talking about in and in breeding,not line breeding which is complicated type of outcrossing.

Only dogs die,the germ cell or gene pool is imortal and lives on as long as the dog reproduces,thats why when people on here are talking about breeding good dogs together they are missing the point,that they are not breeding simply from those two parents but from the germ cell or genes that they carry.

The main point to remember is to forget systems or anything like that.You can only judge an individual on what it shows.

Absolutely fascinating jeemes,I can now see how breeding good quality working lurchers can become a life's work, and is incredibly complexed.

Shame that we seem to have so many poorly bred dogs that are peddled about the country, from have ago breeders that don't know what their bloody doing.

Interesting that you mention that outcrossing for a line breeding being more complicated, I for one would like to hear more if you have time to share.

Thankyou

[MIK 4,756]

Heres my take on it I would by any means say i am an expert but I have done a brother and sister mating and will explain my reasons in doing so and the resulting litter ...I and a few others were needing some pups on the ground I had seen many bitches run but if I was totally 100% honest with myself there was nothing I saw that I thought I would have a pup out of ...I saw a couple of bull coss bitches that I rated very highly and were very very good at their job but the bull cross route I didnt want to take for my type of lurcher work .

Tiggers sister Rosie was a decent bitch that I had seen work many times and I rated her she didnt like teeth but I could live with that and once again if I was totaly honest she hadnt had the amount of graft I would of liked but that was down to the owners work commitments and new family but she had still seen plenty and had a bit of class about her ,

I took her up here a few months before she was due to break down got her fit and throw as much as I could at her and I liked what I saw if I didnt the mateing wouldnt of happened .

the parents SALs make up was mostly D/H and the sire Triggers make up was mostly Saluki so breed type they were not close

It was mentioned on here that the mating would happen and as on this thread there were lads with opinions based on no real experiance ...

7 healthy pups were born with no phyical problems and the bitch done well to whelp them on the best feeding I could provide ....one pup was slower to grow than the others so I kept him an extra few weeks before he was sent down south....All the lads new what they were getting and all the pups were sent down the road to lads I knew would give them plenty.

I kept a bitch back and she has been a joy to own a bitch I rate highly with plenty of drive speed and wind just what I want in a lurcher

JIM,ROSIE,FLY,TIGGER

Jim he went to Rosies owner but sat in a kennel doing pretty much nothing for a few years ....seen him work a few times and imo could of been decent if given the graft .

There were a few pups given to lads on here or lads on here would of seen them graft so will let them give you an opinion on them .

I feel we have a good baseline of blood we can breed from if required now and Tigger will be going over a daughter of his soon which if they are like their pareants could be a specail litter time and the right people will tell

Like I have said a lot of lads were against such a close mateing but nothing ventured nothing gained

Edited March 17, 2016 by MIK

[cold pint 330]

general speaking,,if your like my self and dont peticularly like breeding pups but its the only route to go to get what you want then linebreeding is a strong option,.

i only breed a litter when i and less than a handfull of close mates are ready for youngsters to bring on,,when your passionate about the dogs you run and theyve hacked everything an more that youve managed to throw at them then it gets your/my cogs working,,what route do you go when it comes to breeding from the good stock youve got? line breed. im not saying ive standards higher then the next man but i do have a standard my dogs must reach.,,for my own piece of mind line breeding is the only way to go for me personaly. 6 1/2 years ago i bred my last litter,,father to daughter,, and result of that small litter was what id call class. previous to that it would be 11 year ago i made a mother x son mating. times upon me now to choose wisely and pick what move to make next as my bitch as done well for me and i need a coupler pups rounder bout now....

 

line breeding isit right? i thinkso, but make sure what you got to start with is worth sticking with because boy they throw to type. like clones..exactly what i like

Edited March 17, 2016 by cold pint

[Chaff 3,415]

Reading some of these posts has made me realise how little I know tbo, so many factors to consider.

I now can see why when people put 2 good workers together you seldom get pups that work to the same standard as parents.

Where as in breeding and line breeding you know your going to have a litter of replicas pretty much.

It must take years of carefull selection to perfect

I want to breed from my dog at a later date and I am in contact with his siblings, not sure how conversation would go down with owners though

[brenner 773]

Very good thread so far.. Every day is a school day I guess. In my case I will probably never take the bullxwhippet breeding I did any further. Who knows what's down the road. But let's say for the sake of this conversation I do. If I felt the bitch I held back had it all physically, mentally and I found out 1 of her brothers was every bit as impressive if not more, I would have no problem going brother over sister.on the other hand if I was very impressed with her but figured she could do with an extra gear, wind, whatever.. My first choice then would be to put her father back over her. With my very basic understanding of genetics I figure because I'm starting off with two completely different breeds mixed together the gene pool is wide open and in and line breeding if done correctly would not be a problem for generations to come

[ginger beard 4,652]

 

 

line breed if you want to mate or don't.i can see what your saying about line breeding but a line bred dog won't do anything better than 2 excellent non related hard working parents at the end of the day.

I had a long winded reply all ready to go but I deleted it, Im gonna bow out of this one. Each to his own I suppose. If it works for you keep at it, and I'm not saying that in a smart way. A.t.b

f**k it! I have to bite.. This topic hits a nerve. I've recently bred a litter of 1sx bullxwhippets. I can stand over mother and father as good dogs at their jobs. What's more is that I can trace the pedigrees on both sides to a long line of some really good producing dogs.question... Do u think if I found a whippet on done deal (background unknown) and a pit bull on done deal (background unknown) that were good dogs, bred off them, are you telling me you would just as soon put your faith in the done deal bred pups as put your faith in a litter of pups bred from a long line of working / game bred dogs? Honest question... There is no right or wrong answer, it's your preference

 

seen your topic on your pups,yeah like em.if i'm going to breed a litter with my bitch from her brother,dad or whatever to lock in the good traits or breed from a totally different dog that is just as good as my bitches brother,dad or whatever i would choose the unrelated one.it will have to be from worker to worker from generations back though.how many people have actually got a pure line going.?????????i wouldn't buy a dog from the internet.

[MickC 1,825]

Nephew to Auntie or Uncle to Niece for line breeding.

Edited March 17, 2016 by MickC

[ginger beard 4,652]

Nephew to Auntie or Uncle to Niece for line breeding.

only if by marriage.

[jeemes 3,634]

 

 

 

line breed if you want to mate or don't.i can see what your saying about line breeding but a line bred dog won't do anything better than 2 excellent non related hard working parents at the end of the day.

I had a long winded reply all ready to go but I deleted it, Im gonna bow out of this one. Each to his own I suppose. If it works for you keep at it, and I'm not saying that in a smart way. A.t.b

f**k it! I have to bite.. This topic hits a nerve. I've recently bred a litter of 1sx bullxwhippets. I can stand over mother and father as good dogs at their jobs. What's more is that I can trace the pedigrees on both sides to a long line of some really good producing dogs.question... Do u think if I found a whippet on done deal (background unknown) and a pit bull on done deal (background unknown) that were good dogs, bred off them, are you telling me you would just as soon put your faith in the done deal bred pups as put your faith in a litter of pups bred from a long line of working / game bred dogs? Honest question... There is no right or wrong answer, it's your preference

 

seen your topic on your pups,yeah like em.if i'm going to breed a litter with my bitch from her brother,dad or whatever to lock in the good traits or breed from a totally different dog that is just as good as my bitches brother,dad or whatever i would choose the unrelated one.it will have to be from worker to worker from generations back though.how many people have actually got a pure line going.?????????i wouldn't buy a dog from the internet.

 

If you use a stud dog that is inbred he is very likely to pass his traits onto pups

[jeemes 3,634]

general speaking,,if your like my self and dont peticularly like breeding pups but its the only route to go to get what you want then linebreeding is a strong option,.

i only breed a litter when i and less than a handfull of close mates are ready for youngsters to bring on,,when your passionate about the dogs you run and theyve hacked everything an more that youve managed to throw at them then it gets your/my cogs working,,what route do you go when it comes to breeding from the good stock youve got? line breed. im not saying ive standards higher then the next man but i do have a standard my dogs must reach.,,for my own piece of mind line breeding is the only way to go for me personaly. 6 1/2 years ago i bred my last litter,,father to daughter,, and result of that small litter was what id call class. previous to that it would be 11 year ago i made a mother x son mating. times upon me now to choose wisely and pick what move to make next as my bitch as done well for me and i need a coupler pups rounder bout now....

 

line breeding isit right? i thinkso, but make sure what you got to start with is worth sticking with because boy they throw to type. like clones..exactly what i like

Spot on mate,and what could be simpler.Why some think its easier to scatter breed i dont know.. If you already have what you want in your dogs as you obviously have then the answer to future good dogs is staring you in the face. What you are doing is inbreeding though not line breeding. best of luck,though i dont think you'll need it.

[Somewhereyournot 1,117]

 

 

general speaking,,if your like my self and dont peticularly like breeding pups but its the only route to go to get what you want then linebreeding is a strong option,.

i only breed a litter when i and less than a handfull of close mates are ready for youngsters to bring on,,when your passionate about the dogs you run and theyve hacked everything an more that youve managed to throw at them then it gets your/my cogs working,,what route do you go when it comes to breeding from the good stock youve got? line breed. im not saying ive standards higher then the next man but i do have a standard my dogs must reach.,,for my own piece of mind line breeding is the only way to go for me personaly. 6 1/2 years ago i bred my last litter,,father to daughter,, and result of that small litter was what id call class. previous to that it would be 11 year ago i made a mother x son mating. times upon me now to choose wisely and pick what move to make next as my bitch as done well for me and i need a coupler pups rounder bout now....

 

line breeding isit right? i thinkso, but make sure what you got to start with is worth sticking with because boy they throw to type. like clones..exactly what i like

Spot on mate,and what could be simpler.Why some think its easier to scatter breed i dont know.. If you already have what you want in your dogs as you obviously have then the answer to future good dogs is staring you in the face. What you are doing is inbreeding though not line breeding. best of luck,though i dont think you'll need it.

any pictures of the dogs u keep jeemes? I know u keep bull x I think, but u talk a lot of sense about using the right types etc. atb

[jeemes 3,634]

 

 

general speaking,,if your like my self and dont peticularly like breeding pups but its the only route to go to get what you want then linebreeding is a strong option,.

i only breed a litter when i and less than a handfull of close mates are ready for youngsters to bring on,,when your passionate about the dogs you run and theyve hacked everything an more that youve managed to throw at them then it gets your/my cogs working,,what route do you go when it comes to breeding from the good stock youve got? line breed. im not saying ive standards higher then the next man but i do have a standard my dogs must reach.,,for my own piece of mind line breeding is the only way to go for me personaly. 6 1/2 years ago i bred my last litter,,father to daughter,, and result of that small litter was what id call class. previous to that it would be 11 year ago i made a mother x son mating. times upon me now to choose wisely and pick what move to make next as my bitch as done well for me and i need a coupler pups rounder bout now....

 

line breeding isit right? i thinkso, but make sure what you got to start with is worth sticking with because boy they throw to type. like clones..exactly what i like

Spot on mate,and what could be simpler.Why some think its easier to scatter breed i dont know.. If you already have what you want in your dogs as you obviously have then the answer to future good dogs is staring you in the face. What you are doing is inbreeding though not line breeding. best of luck,though i dont think you'll need it.

any pictures of the dogs u keep jeemes? I know u keep bull x I think, but u talk a lot of sense about using the right types etc. atb

 

pmd you

[ginger beard 4,652]

who's actually got a line on here where there coming out like pea's in a pod with no outcross in the last few generations.?

[jeemes 3,634]

some of mine are identical,but it doesnt follow they will have exactly the same working traits because they look the same.

[Gaz_1989 9,539]

some of mine are identical,but it doesnt follow they will have exactly the same working traits because they look the same.

Have you got any pics of your line? Would be interesting to see a few closely related dogs.