Thought ?

[wilbur foxhound 480]

Different places hold different amounts of scent,could it be that when hounds were moved onto biscuits they possibly went to a place where there was more scent and hunted better,meat as said puts weight on quicker but ive seen hounds that were a little heavy not perform good on a days hunting,and also the huntsman edmund porter said that he preferred to feed meat as it hung on to them longer, but surely it must be in the breeding, wf

[neil cooney 10,415]

Some times scent is used far too much as a excuse why the hounds havent hunted very well ive seen hounds speak on a cold line when the majority of the pack can not is this becase they have been fed on meal and the other hounds fed flesh or is it because they are deeper scented hounds bred a different way and if you put all the deeper scented hounds that could hunt a cold line in 1 kennel and fed them flesh and fed the rest of the pack meal in another kennel would you then see the ones fed meal hunt the best I can tell you they wouldn't cause plain and simple it is in the breeding of the hound what its nose will let it do not what it eats but if your happy to believe it you carry on cause I don't care

I've been following hounds for a long time Foxbolter and have followed hounds up to 100 days a year.

I don't pretend to know it all and I prefare to first see hounds on a line before seeing if there's scent or not.

I've often seen scent in covert but not outside and vice versa. I'm also a big believer in waiting for the 3 o clock fox (when half the field's gone home).

But I always laugh when I see a layman rubbishing a huntsman's experience, especially one of good repute.

But everyone's entitled to their own opinion.

One reason there's probably not more opinions on my original question is that there's probably only a small handful of huntsmen who have fed both meal and flesh as most huntsmen prefare flesh with no exceptions.

 

Regarding blaming poor scent for bad hounds ?

IMO 90% of the time if hounds can't hold a line it's because of poor scent.

One of the gentlemen I earlier mentioned once told me that if in an area one pack is hunting well then you'll find that all packs in that area are hunting well.

That's down to scent and who am I to question his thinking since he first followed hounds in '59.

Yes, I know there's huntsmen who wont let hounds on and I know that spoil will ruin a line for even the best hounds.

But what John Pugh said in the book might just make a little small difference between having a hunt and having a good hunt and fair play to any man who can get that little bit extra out of his pack by noticing the little things that can make a difference.

It's usually a sign of a perfectionist.

[foxbolter 447]

Neil ur a busy man hunting over three days a week and you seem a decent man who knows the job of hounds which I respect ur point but every one like you say is entitled to their own opinion I find I am a stubborn person who will find things out for my self and never believe what others say because they have been hunting a long time because some people have hunted all they life and still haven't got a clue but also there some who have and know a lot of true facts what you said neil about blaming scent I can only talk about packs ive seen some packs give up a check to easy and some will overrun badly some are carrying noisy hounds on fences and whilst the pack is on a check the noisy hounds pull the hunting pack off a check and many more reasons and when speak to those concerned they will tell you scent is bad and another thing I will say is I never give anyone respect just cause they right in books cause they will right what they want you to read and never right about bad things and try to make they selfs look good you never hear many terrier man mention a bad terrier they had and tell you this dog is good but its three other sister's were rubish do you . We will always have different opinion of feeding meal and if you neil believe in waiting for the three o clock fox and if follow the same hounds three days a week and feed meal I dont think after a few hard days hunting on the run they wont be doing much after 2 o clock but thats only my opinion

[Blackdog92 2,047]

Whould there be more fat in a bag of food than a cow or sheep and back in the day I bet there wasn't much fat in a bag when jp was feeding bag food if he ever did I bet there didn't say much on the bag

Jonnys hounds were fed on fallen stock if i remember right. Him and my grandad were cousins and remember him telling me he whent up to the kennels oneday and jonny was sat eating his sandwiches on a blown up dead cow he was cutting up for them haha.

[neil cooney 10,415]

Foxbolter, I'll comment on a couple of things in your post.

I've never followed a pack that's been fed on meal. Hence my original question. In fact, I don't know of any pack (other than a few gun packs) that are fed on meal.

I asked the original question because I find John Pugh's theory very interesting.

Regarding those who write or are interviewed in books, remember this .

Some books, not all, are written out of a labour of love and not always purely for financial gain. If the book makes the author a few pounds, good on them.

So when someone who's walked the walk and has the T-Shirt (in this case Lyn Harber) writes a book I think you'll find that he'll hand pick those he'd like to interview.

Now, I read a lot and The Hunter's of the Welsh Hills was the first book I remember seeing John Pugh in and as I found the rest of his chapter very interesting the bit where he mentioned Meal VS Flesh I thought was worth getting to the bottom off.

And you have not said anything yet to prove him wrong.

Greggs link however has ,maybe, proved you's who said "bullshit" wrong.

[foxbolter 447]

Gregs link contradicts what jp said cause hounds would get more fat out of flesh than meal would they

[neil cooney 10,415]

Depends on the meal or flesh being fed.

[foxbolter 447]

Would there have been much fat in the meal jp fed all those years ago or would there have been more fat in the dead sheep he fed which died on his farm and other farms in is area

[neil cooney 10,415]

Greggs link has answered my question best so I'll leave it at that other than to say the John Pugh hunted hounds 'till the 90s and I doubt he fed mutton as most huntsmen wont feed mutton for obvious reasons.

Mutton by the way is around 15% protein, 22% fat, lean beef is around 21% protein ,10 - 15% fat.

[foxbolter 447]

Nothing wrong with feeding mutton thats another load of bullshit

[foxbolter 447]

Does a dog kill chickens cause you feed it chicken

[socks 32,253]

Greggs link has answered my question best so I'll leave it at that other than to say the John Pugh hunted hounds 'till the 90s and I doubt he fed mutton as most huntsmen wont feed mutton for obvious reasons.

Mutton by the way is around 15% protein, 22% fat, lean beef is around 21% protein ,10 - 15% fat.

What's the obvious reason they won't feed mutton ??? ........

[dEs 6]

 

Greggs link has answered my question best so I'll leave it at that other than to say the John Pugh hunted hounds 'till the 90s and I doubt he fed mutton as most huntsmen wont feed mutton for obvious reasons.

Mutton by the way is around 15% protein, 22% fat, lean beef is around 21% protein ,10 - 15% fat.

What's the obvious reason they won't feed mutton ??? ........

Because a dogs diet can affect it's scenting ability and there's not enough protein in it!!

 

Anyway Neil i don't know how you can be bothered. It's hard to educate ignorance. But thanks for starting this.. JP might be right, he might be wrong. But one things for sure i've learned something and so have others. I've already been bending mens ears, the same men who have been hunting years and had or have some fine packs of hounds, the same men who will be on the blower 2 or 3 times a week during the season cause they've seen something new or have had a hound brain-wave and need an opinion.

 

Why? Cause when it comes to hounds they know they'll never see or know it all!

[socks 32,253]

 

 

Greggs link has answered my question best so I'll leave it at that other than to say the John Pugh hunted hounds 'till the 90s and I doubt he fed mutton as most huntsmen wont feed mutton for obvious reasons.

Mutton by the way is around 15% protein, 22% fat, lean beef is around 21% protein ,10 - 15% fat.

What's the obvious reason they won't feed mutton ??? ........

Because a dogs diet can affect it's scenting ability and there's not enough protein in it!!

Anyway Neil i don't know how you can be bothered. It's hard to educate ignorance. But thanks for starting this.. JP might be right, he might be wrong. But one things for sure i've learned something and so have others. I've already been bending mens ears, the same men who have been hunting years and had or have some fine packs of hounds, the same men who will be on the blower 2 or 3 times a week during the season cause they've seen something new or have had a hound brain-wave and need an opinion.

Why? Cause when it comes to hounds they know they'll never see or know it all!

Oh really ... These experts would disagree with you and I know who I would believe .....

 

http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/2013/03/more-fat-less-protein-improves-detection-dogs-sniffers

[foxbolter 447]

I once read if you feed hounds dogs chicken they wont kill chickens but if you feed them chicken eggs they will kill chickens and there once was a pack of hounds fed on calfs and in that season them hounds killed 21 calfs so then they asked the huntsman to skin sheep for the hounds and he said no because they too smelly and they have a lot more money for calf skins lmho dont believe all you read and there was a miss print in the book neil cwmy as I know him jp as you have read about him said they hunted better on flesh and it was printed wrong in the book