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[downsouth 8,277]

 

 

 

why would someone need a personal protection dog? I can understand a big dog left outside of the kennels to put of scumbags. Personal protection dog though, dont the law f**k that idea up? If someone really wants to get you they will anway. I would hate to be that paranoid that i felt i needed a dog to protect me.

 

if you had a lot of valuables and lived in an isolated place,would you not feel a little bit happier having a well trained protection dog with you?

 

or more so with your wife when you went out?

 

I can't see the courts destroying a dog for defending it's owner in it's own house from a burglar,not because they aren't c**ts,but because the public outcry would be huge.

Surely the courts would throw the book at you if you had a professionally trained attack dog that savaged someone while you were there?

Savaged? Yes. Bite and hold until you give the command to release? Not so cut and dry.

 

The new laws about attacks on private property haven't been tested in court yet so we have no idea what the penalties would be for your dog attacking an intruder. Before the new laws you were totally free from any charges as long as the dog wasn't a banned breed or already deemed dangerous by the courts, whether the victim was an intruder or not.

 

 

why would someone need a personal protection dog? I can understand a big dog left outside of the kennels to put of scumbags. Personal protection dog though, dont the law f**k that idea up? If someone really wants to get you they will anway. I would hate to be that paranoid that i felt i needed a dog to protect me.

if you had a lot of valuables and lived in an isolated place,would you not feel a little bit happier having a well trained protection dog with you?

 

or more so with your wife when you went out?

 

I can't see the courts destroying a dog for defending it's owner in it's own house from a burglar,not because they aren't c**ts,but because the public outcry would be huge.

Surely the courts would throw the book at you if you had a professionally trained attack dog that savaged someone while you were there?

To be fair if some dirty c**t broke into my house when my wife and daughter were the alone I hope My dog would at least hospitalise them I would take whatever the courts had to throw at me after.

[Accip74 7,112]

 

There seems to be a lot of 'ifs' & 'maybes' with these personal protection dogs.........anyone got one that's actually had to do anything yet? Or could the average security dog spend it's working life without actually having to stop a man?

 

99% of home security dogs probably go their whole lives never having to stop a man but you don't know how many would be burglars they've deterred just by being there. If all you're after is home security an alarm and maybe a yappy f****r would be all you need but if you enjoy owning this sort of dog why not add an extra layer to your home defences?

 

Personally of all the guard dogs I've owned only one has actually had to do the deed on my property and he did everything I'd expect of him, held the scrote in a corner pissing his pants until I got home and dealt with it

Well I was hoping you would have at least have one incident that proved their worth BGB......I'm not knocking them, on the contrary, I admire the training that go's into these dogs.....just sceptical about the amount of 'real work' they are likely to do, as opposed to the competitive shuzthund type dogs......or maybe I'm just not getting it? Edited May 15, 2015 by Accip74

[BGD 6,437]

 

 

There seems to be a lot of 'ifs' & 'maybes' with these personal protection dogs.........anyone got one that's actually had to do anything yet? Or could the average security dog spend it's working life without actually having to stop a man?

99% of home security dogs probably go their whole lives never having to stop a man but you don't know how many would be burglars they've deterred just by being there. If all you're after is home security an alarm and maybe a yappy f****r would be all you need but if you enjoy owning this sort of dog why not add an extra layer to your home defences?

 

Personally of all the guard dogs I've owned only one has actually had to do the deed on my property and he did everything I'd expect of him, held the scrote in a corner pissing his pants until I got home and dealt with it

Well I was hoping you would have at least have one incident that proved their worth BGB......I'm not knocking them, on the contrary, I admire the training that go's into these dogs.....but previously on this thread you kinda dismissed the shutzhund dogs as merely playing a game, rather than the real thing, as in 'real work'........so other than that one incident, what 'real work' is the average personnel protection dog going to do?

 

 

Well it would depend on what the owner got the dog for, just sitting in the yard protecting the house? Probably not much real work. But a patrol dog working with a security company would see a fair bit of real work on a regular basis.

 

My problem with the idea of using a schutzhund dog as an actual protection dog is simple, the training methods aren't geared towards that they're geared towards scoring points in a competion. The training scenarios are too rigidly choreographed and far too equipment focused. It's a great sport that takes real dedication to get to the top of and it's great to see breeds like the GSD actually being used for something but relying on a dog that's only been trained for schutzhund to protect you when the chips are down is setting the dog up to fail. It's about making sure the dog has had the training to prepare it for when it does have to do "real work", schutzhund doesn't do that, it prepares the dog to compete in a sport.

[bird 10,014]

 

 

 

Can't see the Dutch herder going the same way as gsds and mals, their breed club is top notch really focusing on working ability, they even allow certain outcrosses from time to time to bring fresh blood in (they've had a fair bit of bulldog infused over the years, where the brindle comes from).

i didnt realise that. i looked into them not to long ago as i thought they would make me a decent working lurcher if crossed with a grey. i have read that there is sometimes gsd blood added to them very occasonally at times but have never seen any mention of bull blood being added to them.

The KNPV dogs are still regularly outcrossed with Belgian Mals, GSDs and the odd bull, they don't give a fook about keeping things pure it's all about working ability, just how it should be

My mate who I train with has a herder with an 1/8 very well bred bull blood in it.Proper full on dog with off the scale drive.He recently went out to Holland to learn some KNPV style for his decoy work and told me that they didn't mind mixing a bit of something else into their herders.

 

yeh when you look at some of the dutch herders , they do seem to have stocky appearance about them, and there brindle colour , so it could make sense if bit of bulldog had been bred in to them over time

[Accip74 7,112]

 

 

 

There seems to be a lot of 'ifs' & 'maybes' with these personal protection dogs.........anyone got one that's actually had to do anything yet? Or could the average security dog spend it's working life without actually having to stop a man?

 

99% of home security dogs probably go their whole lives never having to stop a man but you don't know how many would be burglars they've deterred just by being there. If all you're after is home security an alarm and maybe a yappy f****r would be all you need but if you enjoy owning this sort of dog why not add an extra layer to your home defences?

 

Personally of all the guard dogs I've owned only one has actually had to do the deed on my property and he did everything I'd expect of him, held the scrote in a corner pissing his pants until I got home and dealt with it

Well I was hoping you would have at least have one incident that proved their worth BGB......I'm not knocking them, on the contrary, I admire the training that go's into these dogs.....but previously on this thread you kinda dismissed the shutzhund dogs as merely playing a game, rather than the real thing, as in 'real work'........so other than that one incident, what 'real work' is the average personnel protection dog going to do?

Well it would depend on what the owner got the dog for, just sitting in the yard protecting the house? Probably not much real work. But a patrol dog working with a security company would see a fair bit of real work on a regular basis.

 

My problem with the idea of using a schutzhund dog as an actual protection dog is simple, the training methods aren't geared towards that they're geared towards scoring points in a competion. The training scenarios are too rigidly choreographed and far too equipment focused. It's a great sport that takes real dedication to get to the top of and it's great to see breeds like the GSD actually being used for something but relying on a dog that's only been trained for schutzhund to protect you when the chips are down is setting the dog up to fail. It's about making sure the dog has had the training to prepare it for when it does have to do "real work", schutzhund doesn't do that, it prepares the dog to compete in a sport.

Fair enough mate, like I've already stated I'm purely on the outside looking in, with interest, not an opinion......maybe I was being a little naive thinking the average patrol dog wouldn't see much real work. I hadn't realised the competition dogs were so 'limited' either....

[BGD 6,437]

 

 

 

 

There seems to be a lot of 'ifs' & 'maybes' with these personal protection dogs.........anyone got one that's actually had to do anything yet? Or could the average security dog spend it's working life without actually having to stop a man?

99% of home security dogs probably go their whole lives never having to stop a man but you don't know how many would be burglars they've deterred just by being there. If all you're after is home security an alarm and maybe a yappy f****r would be all you need but if you enjoy owning this sort of dog why not add an extra layer to your home defences?

 

Personally of all the guard dogs I've owned only one has actually had to do the deed on my property and he did everything I'd expect of him, held the scrote in a corner pissing his pants until I got home and dealt with it

Well I was hoping you would have at least have one incident that proved their worth BGB......I'm not knocking them, on the contrary, I admire the training that go's into these dogs.....but previously on this thread you kinda dismissed the shutzhund dogs as merely playing a game, rather than the real thing, as in 'real work'........so other than that one incident, what 'real work' is the average personnel protection dog going to do?

Well it would depend on what the owner got the dog for, just sitting in the yard protecting the house? Probably not much real work. But a patrol dog working with a security company would see a fair bit of real work on a regular basis.

 

My problem with the idea of using a schutzhund dog as an actual protection dog is simple, the training methods aren't geared towards that they're geared towards scoring points in a competion. The training scenarios are too rigidly choreographed and far too equipment focused. It's a great sport that takes real dedication to get to the top of and it's great to see breeds like the GSD actually being used for something but relying on a dog that's only been trained for schutzhund to protect you when the chips are down is setting the dog up to fail. It's about making sure the dog has had the training to prepare it for when it does have to do "real work", schutzhund doesn't do that, it prepares the dog to compete in a sport.

Fair enough mate, like I've already stated I'm purely on the outside looking in, with interest, not an opinion......maybe I was being a little naive thinking the average patrol dog wouldn't see much real work. I hadn't realised the competition dogs were so 'limited' either....

 

All depends on the area and what sort of place the dogs are patrolling, I'm sure some dogs very rarely if ever actually sink their teeth into anyone "on job", you'd still want to know they were capable of it though

Don't get me wrong when I'm talking about the limitations of schutzhund dogs, the ones at the top of their game with decent trainers/breeders/handlers behind them are very capable dogs trained to a seriously impressive standard it's just I've seen far too many "trained schutzhund dogs" that are so sleeve obsessed they don't even switch on to agitation if there's no sleeve to bite and piss themselves under any real pressure.

[downsouth 8,277]

 

 

 

 

 

There seems to be a lot of 'ifs' & 'maybes' with these personal protection dogs.........anyone got one that's actually had to do anything yet? Or could the average security dog spend it's working life without actually having to stop a man?

 

99% of home security dogs probably go their whole lives never having to stop a man but you don't know how many would be burglars they've deterred just by being there. If all you're after is home security an alarm and maybe a yappy f****r would be all you need but if you enjoy owning this sort of dog why not add an extra layer to your home defences?

 

Personally of all the guard dogs I've owned only one has actually had to do the deed on my property and he did everything I'd expect of him, held the scrote in a corner pissing his pants until I got home and dealt with it

Well I was hoping you would have at least have one incident that proved their worth BGB......I'm not knocking them, on the contrary, I admire the training that go's into these dogs.....but previously on this thread you kinda dismissed the shutzhund dogs as merely playing a game, rather than the real thing, as in 'real work'........so other than that one incident, what 'real work' is the average personnel protection dog going to do?

Well it would depend on what the owner got the dog for, just sitting in the yard protecting the house? Probably not much real work. But a patrol dog working with a security company would see a fair bit of real work on a regular basis.

 

My problem with the idea of using a schutzhund dog as an actual protection dog is simple, the training methods aren't geared towards that they're geared towards scoring points in a competion. The training scenarios are too rigidly choreographed and far too equipment focused. It's a great sport that takes real dedication to get to the top of and it's great to see breeds like the GSD actually being used for something but relying on a dog that's only been trained for schutzhund to protect you when the chips are down is setting the dog up to fail. It's about making sure the dog has had the training to prepare it for when it does have to do "real work", schutzhund doesn't do that, it prepares the dog to compete in a sport.

Fair enough mate, like I've already stated I'm purely on the outside looking in, with interest, not an opinion......maybe I was being a little naive thinking the average patrol dog wouldn't see much real work. I hadn't realised the competition dogs were so 'limited' either....

All depends on the area and what sort of place the dogs are patrolling, I'm sure some dogs very rarely if ever actually sink their teeth into anyone "on job", you'd still want to know they were capable of it though

Don't get me wrong when I'm talking about the limitations of schutzhund dogs, the ones at the top of their game with decent trainers/breeders/handlers behind them are very capable dogs trained to a seriously impressive standard it's just I've seen far too many "trained schutzhund dogs" that are so sleeve obsessed they don't even switch on to agitation if there's no sleeve to bite and piss themselves under any real pressure.

I saw something a couple of weeks back a training.one of the lads has a big horrible looking shepherd that hits like a train he tied it up and got one of the other lads to grab hold of him (the owner) and shake him about a bit,the dog slowly fired up then my mate Scott said watch this and from 30yds away he held his arm up with a sleeve on.The dog switched it's attention from its owner getting attacked to my my mate sitting down passively holding a sleeve up and all the time my mate held his arm up would not return it's focus to its owner screaming like he was being murdered.

[unlacedgecko 1,467]

 

 

 

 

 

 

There seems to be a lot of 'ifs' & 'maybes' with these personal protection dogs.........anyone got one that's actually had to do anything yet? Or could the average security dog spend it's working life without actually having to stop a man?

99% of home security dogs probably go their whole lives never having to stop a man but you don't know how many would be burglars they've deterred just by being there. If all you're after is home security an alarm and maybe a yappy f****r would be all you need but if you enjoy owning this sort of dog why not add an extra layer to your home defences?

 

Personally of all the guard dogs I've owned only one has actually had to do the deed on my property and he did everything I'd expect of him, held the scrote in a corner pissing his pants until I got home and dealt with it

Well I was hoping you would have at least have one incident that proved their worth BGB......I'm not knocking them, on the contrary, I admire the training that go's into these dogs.....but previously on this thread you kinda dismissed the shutzhund dogs as merely playing a game, rather than the real thing, as in 'real work'........so other than that one incident, what 'real work' is the average personnel protection dog going to do?

Well it would depend on what the owner got the dog for, just sitting in the yard protecting the house? Probably not much real work. But a patrol dog working with a security company would see a fair bit of real work on a regular basis.

 

My problem with the idea of using a schutzhund dog as an actual protection dog is simple, the training methods aren't geared towards that they're geared towards scoring points in a competion. The training scenarios are too rigidly choreographed and far too equipment focused. It's a great sport that takes real dedication to get to the top of and it's great to see breeds like the GSD actually being used for something but relying on a dog that's only been trained for schutzhund to protect you when the chips are down is setting the dog up to fail. It's about making sure the dog has had the training to prepare it for when it does have to do "real work", schutzhund doesn't do that, it prepares the dog to compete in a sport.

Fair enough mate, like I've already stated I'm purely on the outside looking in, with interest, not an opinion......maybe I was being a little naive thinking the average patrol dog wouldn't see much real work. I hadn't realised the competition dogs were so 'limited' either....

All depends on the area and what sort of place the dogs are patrolling, I'm sure some dogs very rarely if ever actually sink their teeth into anyone "on job", you'd still want to know they were capable of it though

Don't get me wrong when I'm talking about the limitations of schutzhund dogs, the ones at the top of their game with decent trainers/breeders/handlers behind them are very capable dogs trained to a seriously impressive standard it's just I've seen far too many "trained schutzhund dogs" that are so sleeve obsessed they don't even switch on to agitation if there's no sleeve to bite and piss themselves under any real pressure.

I've been in a nite suit to decoy for some of then military dogs (GSD and Mali). They can certainly aren't sleeve/equipment focussed. In Afghanistan they were getting teeth on flesh quite often around Bastion and the patrol bases.

[unlacedgecko 1,467]

 

 

 

 

 

Can't see the Dutch herder going the same way as gsds and mals, their breed club is top notch really focusing on working ability, they even allow certain outcrosses from time to time to bring fresh blood in (they've had a fair bit of bulldog infused over the years, where the brindle comes from).

i didnt realise that. i looked into them not to long ago as i thought they would make me a decent working lurcher if crossed with a grey. i have read that there is sometimes gsd blood added to them very occasonally at times but have never seen any mention of bull blood being added to them.

The KNPV dogs are still regularly outcrossed with Belgian Mals, GSDs and the odd bull, they don't give a fook about keeping things pure it's all about working ability, just how it should be

My mate who I train with has a herder with an 1/8 very well bred bull blood in it.Proper full on dog with off the scale drive.He recently went out to Holland to learn some KNPV style for his decoy work and told me that they didn't mind mixing a bit of something else into their herders.

yeh when you look at some of the dutch herders , they do seem to have stocky appearance about them, and there brindle colour , so it could make sense if bit of bulldog had been bred in to them over time

I'd love a Dutch herder. If only I had the time and the ability to train it correctly.

[leegreen 2,244]

 

 

 

a schutzhund I dog of any breeding is a much bigger achievement imo

 

wouldn't have the patience and dedication personally but admire those who do.

 

But would you sell the pups off it as bred from tried & tested workers? At the end of the day until a dog has actually WORKED in real life situations for a good few years you can't call it tested. It might take a lot of dedication to train to that level but when the chips were down I know which I'd prefer to have at my side if the choice was between a sleeve-obsessed titled Schtz dog and a real-world trained and tested PPD/SecurityDog

 

So what is a tried and tested PPD/Security dog then?

 

A dog trained professionally in man work (not sport) that's been worked as a PPD/Security Patrol Dog in the real world...

 

 

 

And a dog knows the difference?

 

There's very few dogs that have actually been given a real arm to bite.