Written Permission

[Deker 3,478]

I think this discussion could go full circle, probably has. The Deer Act shows sensible and clear direction.

The one thing to remember from this, as always for me anyway. We live in an anti gun culture. Anti hunting as well.

Not being clued up is asking for bother, so why not just be sensible?

I reckon only the few forces that have wildlife officers, and they are very thin on the ground, will have an understanding. The average plod is clueless, the clerks more so. That is more true in urban areas.

I shoot, always have done. Even I have a tale of gross stupidity. My neighbour has a four acre field that borders me for about 150 yards. He moved in with his self certification in place, lets say he is older, in fact he is .

Two years ago a .22 round whistled passed my head missing by a few feet, you can feel it. I complained to him, got told to f... off. So, I called old bill, he had been popping off at pigeons for a few months in all directions. Plod visited him, low key. It stopped for six months. One night two years ago I was potting up some plants, bang. A dead woody dropped ten feet away from me, then bang again, a round hit the side of the house.

My wife, as always sensible, stopped me going round. We were concerned for our grand daughter who plays in our paddock by now, plus public safety. Folk ride and dog walk within a hundred yards of this fellows holding. We complained to the FLO. Chummy received a visit and was told enough, next complaint and bye,bye FAC. We got that in writing. Safety? He broke many, many rules of being a safe gun.

Now thats one shooter complaining about another. That is one reason I think we all must use common sense. Not only shoot safely, do not become lax, or worse arrogant. When wandering, or wherever, carry the written word with you.

Given my own experience, and a few other idiots I could mention with shotguns, think how ignorant Joe Public sees us.

:hmm:

 

You do not need written permission to shoot deer. You simply have to comply with additional conditions if you want to shoot them out of season! What clear direction is that and how does it relate to .22lr, small ground game and vermin?

 

As regards the rest of your post, I'm struggling to see any connection to written permission?

[paulus 26]

i always write "where i have legal authority" in that box

[Deker 3,478]

Let me be clear here for those who have not read my posts earlier in this thread.

 

I am not suggesting you shouldn't get written permission, indeed I have said it can be useful, I am simply making the point that it is not a legal necessity for shooting or getting a FAC!

[paulus 26]

Let me be clear here for those who have not read my posts earlier in this thread.

 

I am not suggesting you shouldn't get written permission, indeed I have said it can be useful, I am simply making the point that it is not a legal necessity for shooting or getting a FAC!

half the farmers round here either can not write or can not be bothered to do a letter,

[StephenWalsh 73]

Perhaps those of you who have said you need the landowners written permission could point me in the direction of any legislation that says that.

 

Some regions ask for it and it is without doubt useful, but verbal permission is fine legally.

So I did.

[Deker 3,478]

 

Perhaps those of you who have said you need the landowners written permission could point me in the direction of any legislation that says that.

 

Some regions ask for it and it is without doubt useful, but verbal permission is fine legally.

So I did.

 

Let me remind you of the OP......

 

"Whats the crack on written permission for a. 22lr do you have to have written permission by the landowners or just the land deemed suitable by the cheif ?

 

.22lr is not a normally deer legal calibre, does that help? .22lr is only legal on deer in extreme cases of humane despatch and you do not need written permission for that!

 

Some of us are trying to address the question, what has a small section of the Deer Act got to do with the OP?

 

You do not need written permission to shoot deer, you need it for shooting them out of season, and you also need to comply with various other conditions, so what has that got to do with a .22lr?

Edited July 19, 2014 by Deker

[StephenWalsh 73]

I'm not trying to wind you up, but you did say ANY legislation, and didn't stipulate the caliber etc, just thought I was helping out .

[charlie caller 3,654]

Tell that to two lads I knew years back. Shooting next to the M25 with air rifles rabbiting. No papers carried, M25 closed and them arrested by armed response teams and held overnight. They had the permission, carrying the letter would have saved a lot of fuss.

Who said sackful? Or can you shoot in four different places? As for shooting near dwellings, well nowadays a bit daft that.

Well John if you are going to shoot next to a busy motorway with a high volume of traffic, and be on show with any kind of gun in this day and age, expect a visit, forget the "sackful" John, a mail van full of permission letters will NOT STOP THE PHONE CALL BEING MADE will it? I agree they were foolish not to carry their letter on that occasion and if ever I am invited to shoot next to a motorway in full view of the public, I will politely decline, if however I was asked to do a pest control job on land near dwellings, perhaps farm land that backed onto houses, or a golf course etc I would not only carry my permission, I would in those circumstances phone the police and let them know my intention to shoot on the land, and timings,I am not sure what your reference to "four different places" means? I have over 20 areas of land I can shoot on, I am not limited to four thankyou, "a bit daft" well plenty of pest controllers shoot in built up areas, including back gardens dont they? So by your reckoning perhaps they should turn down work? On the basis of it being "a bit daft" I think the two you mention shooting at the side of the motorway were more than "a bit daft".

[charlie caller 3,654]

Let me be clear here for those who have not read my posts earlier in this thread.

 

I am not suggesting you shouldn't get written permission, indeed I have said it can be useful, I am simply making the point that it is not a legal necessity for shooting or getting a FAC!

Well your area must be different to mine, in south yorks, if you apply for a fac for vermin/deer on private land, and do not provide evidence of written permission, you will not be granted the certificate, simple as that. I quite agree it is not needed for shooting, and I must have a dozen farms where I have verbal permission to shoot only, perhaps I am foolish? But that is how some of my landowners like it, and I for one respect that, it is their choice to write a letter or not.

Edited July 19, 2014 by charlie caller

[danw 1,748]

 

 

Let me be clear here for those who have not read my posts earlier in this thread.

 

I am not suggesting you shouldn't get written permission, indeed I have said it can be useful, I am simply making the point that it is not a legal necessity for shooting or getting a FAC!

Well your area must be different to mine, in south yorks, if you apply for a fac for vermin/deer on private land, and do not provide evidence of written permission, you will not be granted the certificate, simple as that.

Down here mate you give name of land owner and address on the application form they then contact them to confirm or at least that's all they have ever done with mine could be different for keepers though since it's usually there place of work that gives permission

[charlie caller 3,654]

Yes it might be mate, this question cropped up the other day actually, I was helping a shooting friend fill in the new renewal forms, he is under Derbyshire, on the advice slip, it said "provide the name, telephone number, of landowner,and area of land you wish to shoot over" now to me that means "provide" ie put it down on the form, NOT accompany the forms with a letter, now he is a bit of a worrier,and decided to play it safe and get a fresh letter from a farm he has shot over for around 20 years, upon handing his forms in at the firearms licensing building he asked about this, he was told he must provide evidence of written permission, the officer did concede that it was badly worded, and should have stated a letter was needed, all this proves is they all have their own peculiarities, varying from force to force.

[Alsone 789]

Yes it might be mate, this question cropped up the other day actually, I was helping a shooting friend fill in the new renewal forms, he is under Derbyshire, on the advice slip, it said "provide the name, telephone number, of landowner,and area of land you wish to shoot over" now to me that means "provide" ie put it down on the form, NOT accompany the forms with a letter, now he is a bit of a worrier,and decided to play it safe and get a fresh letter from a farm he has shot over for around 20 years, upon handing his forms in at the firearms licensing building he asked about this, he was told he must provide evidence of written permission, the officer did concede that it was badly worded, and should have stated a letter was needed, all this proves is they all have their own peculiarities, varying from force to force.

 

 

The new application forms are supposed to be unified across all forces - Form 201.

 

Maybe there's a difference here between what used to happen and what happens now under the new forms. I believe the new form is the result of a negotiation between the BASC and one of the police bodies.

 

This is the new form, major essay! http://www.thamesvalley.police.uk/form_201_-_application.pdf

 

The new form doesn't ask for written permission although I expect forces will probably ask for it separately. I looked at Manchester's site, and they have a separate form for written permission.

 

Doesn't look like it's compulsory though: http://www.gmp.police.uk/content/WebAttachments/AF0F75C20F35C03280257A450035B8DC/$File/FORM%20Authority%20to%20Shoot%20Over%20land%201.pdf

 

Form 201A, the notes, asks you to supply the details of the person who's given you permission to shoot but doesn't ask for written permission: http://www.gmp.police.uk/content/WebAttachments/A91DCB8CD4A4696480257C35003BA47D/$File/Form%20201A%20-%20Application%20Notes%20for%20Form%20201.pdf

 

For what it's worth, whatever the law, I still think it's foolish not to have it in writing and not to have a cancellation provision that requires it to be in writing by signed for post.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Alsone

[charlie caller 3,654]

But they can put whatever they like in the "advice" note, and this is where the badly worded bit came in, it asked for the details to be "supplied" it did not say those details must be supplied in letter form, my pal only found that out when he handed his paperwork in for renewal,fortunately for him he had gained a newly dated letter, otherwise it would have delayed things.

[celticrusader 78]

Hey guys not to butt in but ive just recieved my FAC back this very moment and although ive been told its unlikely that i will be open certificate with just going onto my first centrefire it seems as if i do infact have that so i will write word for word what i have been given and then could you please tell me if i'm wrong

 

The .243 rifle, .243 sound moderator and ammunition shall be used for shooting fox and any other lawful quarry and for zeroing on ranges, or land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot.

 

almost identicle to what my .22lr and hmr have written.

Edited July 19, 2014 by celticrusader

[charlie caller 3,654]

No it is not open, if it was it would read the .243 calibre rifle, ammunition and sound moderator shall be used for shooting fox, deer and aolq, over land which the holder has lawful authority to shoot. that is open, yours is coditioned for land passed for .243 and above providing you have authority mate