Imported Jagdterriers

[liamdelaney 2,585]

 

 

 

cant understand why ANYBODY who is serious into working there terriers would pay 800 for a jadg when they could get a good black dog in this country for a fraction of the price! the only possible reason is to breed and make £££££££

Out of curiosity where on earth do you get a good black dog for a fraction of the price find it near impossible to get a well bred pup

 

I have been lucky and never had to buy dogs,but if i wanted one of these German dogs I would not consider 800 to much money.If good black dogs are that plentiful(they are not)why are people looking for working dogs on here all the time?There is a lot more shit black dogs than good ones.If I wanted an outcross i would have no hesitation putting a good Jadg into a line of blacks or Lakeland.

 

Lakieman, same as liam i have never had to buy a terrier and hopefully never will! I have a couple of good mates and we breed and keep the same line and pups are given out between us. If your not as lucky as i am and cant get a decent black dog off a mate you should still be able to buy one of good working background if you do your homework and aren't a messer And liam i always like to read your posts but id never even consider putting a jadg, lakeland, border or any other dog to any of my dogs and never will as we have plenty of good stock in this country and dont need pricey imports that will be peddled imo

 

Beneii there comes a time when you have to out cross whether you like it or not.We have the same black dogs a long time,and the same with Lakelands, but you can breed very tight as we allways done but there comes a time the outcross has to be used,so how are you going to get around that one?I would use a good one to put something different in the gene pool(but thats just me)I am told they are very hyper in kennels that is one of my pet hates and a pure one with these traits would have a precarious existence around me.Personally I think if they come in to these parts they will be bred for money whether they are good stock or shite,just like the blacks.

[Benellisupernova 104]

 

 

 

 

cant understand why ANYBODY who is serious into working there terriers would pay 800 for a jadg when they could get a good black dog in this country for a fraction of the price! the only possible reason is to breed and make £££££££

Out of curiosity where on earth do you get a good black dog for a fraction of the price find it near impossible to get a well bred pup

 

I have been lucky and never had to buy dogs,but if i wanted one of these German dogs I would not consider 800 to much money.If good black dogs are that plentiful(they are not)why are people looking for working dogs on here all the time?There is a lot more shit black dogs than good ones.If I wanted an outcross i would have no hesitation putting a good Jadg into a line of blacks or Lakeland.

 

Lakieman, same as liam i have never had to buy a terrier and hopefully never will! I have a couple of good mates and we breed and keep the same line and pups are given out between us. If your not as lucky as i am and cant get a decent black dog off a mate you should still be able to buy one of good working background if you do your homework and aren't a messer And liam i always like to read your posts but id never even consider putting a jadg, lakeland, border or any other dog to any of my dogs and never will as we have plenty of good stock in this country and dont need pricey imports that will be peddled imo

 

Beneii there comes a time when you have to out cross whether you like it or not.We have the same black dogs a long time,and the same with Lakelands, but you can breed very tight as we allways done but there comes a time the outcross has to be used,so how are you going to get around that one?I would use a good one to put something different in the gene pool(but thats just me)I am told they are very hyper in kennels that is one of my pet hates and a pure one with these traits would have a precarious existence around me.Personally I think if they come in to these parts they will be bred for money whether they are good stock or shite,just like the blacks.

 

Yes i agree at times an outcross is obviously needed but i would rather use a dog of the same line if possible but if not id use a black dog i have seen work and know myself has been fully tested rather than an imported dog i know little about! But that just my opinion, i would also like to see these dogs come over here and into working hands, but at that price realisticly its not a price a working man can afford to chance(not me anyway)! And id also like to see if they live up to all the hype ive heard about them.

[jawn 449]

he is out of lara, we take him out on wild boar for 3 days this weekend to see how hes working.

 

He should be a good one then. I really like what I've seen from Zep and Lara's daughter off of Igor Zeilier Klinge. Hope he does you proud.

[lakieman 25]

 

 

 

cant understand why ANYBODY who is serious into working there terriers would pay 800 for a jadg when they could get a good black dog in this country for a fraction of the price! the only possible reason is to breed and make £££££££

Out of curiosity where on earth do you get a good black dog for a fraction of the price find it near impossible to get a well bred pup

I have been lucky and never had to buy dogs,but if i wanted one of these German dogs I would not consider 800 to much money.If good black dogs are that plentiful(they are not)why are people looking for working dogs on here all the time?There is a lot more shit black dogs than good ones.If I wanted an outcross i would have no hesitation putting a good Jadg into a line of blacks or Lakeland.

Lakieman, same as liam i have never had to buy a terrier and hopefully never will! I have a couple of good mates and we breed and keep the same line and pups are given out between us. If your not as lucky as i am and cant get a decent black dog off a mate you should still be able to buy one of good working background if you do your homework and aren't a messer And liam i always like to read your posts but id never even consider putting a jadg, lakeland, border or any other dog to any of my dogs and never will as we have plenty of good stock in this country and dont need pricey imports that will be peddled imo[/quote

 

 

 

Yous are lucky, find it very hard to get any well bred pups out of digging dogs in Scotland I've had a load of pups from Ireland in the last few year all have been no good but that's the way it goes sometimes

Edited January 21, 2014 by lakieman

[Rory4 267]

I seen a few in Slovakia and lots of working photos etc but didn't get to see them work unfortunately but they rate them very highly as they do a lot of boar work and use for tracking deer as well as earth work so bit of all rounder. They need lots of work and were not chilled dogs. From what I was told they take stupid amounts of punishment. As others I don't see why lads over here want them unless they can see a few ££££ and fame from being the uk jadg Breeder.

[jawn 449]

Sometimes people just want to see what the fuss is all about.....I was fortunate in that, I was able to hunt with a few jagds prior to even knowing what they were. I was impressed with not only the level of hunt in the dogs.... but the natural ability they have bred in to them.

 

In hindsight.... the dogs I hunted with back then were not even close to what I've seen since. I tried getting them stateside.... but the waiting lists were just too long. So I did what any fool would and decided to buy one sight unseen from a reputable breeder on the other side of the world that seemed to use them the way I had planned. I ended up buying an adult dog for what seemed like allot of money.... and the dog was better than the ones I had previously hunted.

 

In the course of doing the research that led to my decision to buy this dog.... I discovered several other breeders who by all accounts bred very good jagds. One of them was a man in Slovakia who had a stud dog who produced a very high percentage of good dogs regardless of what he was bred to. I eventually became enough of a nuisance that he decided it would be easier to just sell me a damn puppy than to constantly listen to the reasons why it would be better for him to send one to some redneck in Texas than any of the well known accomplished jagd breeders in Europe who regularly beat a path to his door.. By that time I had acquired other dogs... some good... some anything but. This allowed me to make comparisons.... expensive comparisons... but comparisons none the less.

 

I discovered what should have been obvious.... Even though the jagd by breed description is an all rounder... in most cases an emphasis is placed, by the breeder, on a specific type of dog. Much of this is dictated by region... and tradition. The breed standard says that they are earthworkers first. And some people take this very seriously... still.. that leaves ALLOT of room to get something other than you bargained for. Some of these breeders concentrate on producing dogs that will be useful after the shot... still others breed strictly for an artificial trial dog.

 

I had the opportunity to buy an adult or a puppy from the man I had been harassing in Slovakia. I asked his opinion and he informed me that if it were his decision to make that he would take the pup. The adult dog was quite a bit more expensive yet according to him a very good dog that he didn't need for breeding. My choices were half brothers off the same dog. I chose the pup. He turned out to be the best I had ever seen. I have since become friends with the man...and his family. I have a kennel full of dogs off of or down from what he produces. They are still the best for what I do.

 

I own and have owned a heap of Asstraata/Duvadirto dogs from the source. I've imported grown dogs and pups. The ones i have owned have been consistent in type. They are bred for trial and for earthwork. The ones not good enough for competition are hunted. Many of the dogs that do compete are later hunted after they are done competing. But some are retired for breeding... and are rarely if ever hunted at all.

 

I realize that last statement will rankle some feathers.....But this is the truth as I know it. That is not to suggest that the trial dogs are better dogs..... but they are better trial dogs, and tend to be sharper and more precise with the grip they take and the length of time they hold on. I have imported several very accomplished trial dogs and raised pups off of some of them. I won't get into my goals for making this decision... but will say that the net result was positive.

 

My experience with the breed has been a good one..... but these terriers are like any other in that their are good and bad. I wouldn't recommend that a person who has all they need in what they hunt, rush out and try something they are unsure of....But don't be surprised if you happen across one that is getting the job done. JM2C

Edited January 22, 2014 by jawn

[foxdropper 17,092]

Id be surprised if these terriers worked to any other standard than the breeds we have .They are terriers not machines .Dont get wrapped up in any hype thinking they will be the answer to it all .

[Panna 68]

You'd be surprised...

 

 

Panna

[jawn 449]

With all due respect foxdropper..... I'll agree that they MIGHT not be any better for you than a terrier you have that is already doing everything you need it to.... But show me a terrier of any other persuasion that can pass even the minimum standard set fourth at zp and I'll be impressed.

 

I'm sure plenty exist.....but I've neither seen or heard of a single one that was capable. Please understand.... I'm only talking about the bare minimum to even be considered a member of the breed. I'm not hyping them up..... but I'll not pretend they are something they are not either. Notice.... I haven't said ANYTHING about what is expected of a good one... let alone a great one.

 

 

Id be surprised if these terriers worked to any other standard than the breeds we have .They are terriers not machines .Dont get wrapped up in any hype thinking they will be the answer to it all .

 

I doubt they are worked to standards that much different than some of your breeders have for various types of dogs that exist in the U.K. and Ireland. But we're talking about one breed of terrier here. They might not beat all of your hounds....but a good one will best some of them giving voice the whole way....You'd likely find it to ground with the rest of the pack looking on. They might not be better than your retrievers.....But a good one will do what's needed and leave an impression in doing so and I'll bet you a 100 dollar bill you don't have a better flushing breed.

 

The same applies to your earth dogs.....The good ones have been bred for centuries to do what is expected of them in your part of the world. It would be silly to insist that a dog bred with the same job in mind that came from another part of the continent bred by men with different traditions and expectations of terriers would definitely produce you a prospect as well suited for your needs as someone you know locally. But these hunters hunt what they please in-front of God and everybody without a care in the world..... and they dig to traditional game. Their dogs are pretty good sometimes....ALLOT of the time... what's more... they can prove it.

 

Over seventy five years of focused breeding practices geared toward separating this type of terrier from those it originated from. Think about it for a minute....let that sink in. They aren't some mythical super terrier.... you're probably better off with what you have. If you ONLY hunt your terriers to ground.... yea... you can use a jagd for that. But you don't need one for it.

 

I've purposely left out all the things a good jagd terrier will be capable of..... A person would have to travel to hunt the types of game jagds routinely do to make the comparison.

 

I'm not knocking the types of terriers you have... I've said over and over that these dogs are like any other... good and bad.

 

There's only one way to know for sure... until then....you're purely speculating and making comparisons you believe suit your point.

[foxdropper 17,092]

Point taken mate but if they do anything other when to ground than keep quarry at bay until dug to then you need to share it because thats all i ask of a terrier when to ground .Like myself you may not have seen it all but when alls said and done if your terriers there til the end there really is no more to it .Perhaps it is you that is speculating .Lads spent years messing about with exotics when the real deal has been under their noses .I am very lucky i suppose in that i have a cracking line of blacks that do me proud .The variety of quarry is something mine never see but they see their share of what we have .Again i dont think that jagd are anything special .

Here in Britain we have very few all round breeds and never really want one .We do however have breeds specifically for the job in hand .Our hounds here and in Ireland are the best in the world and before you complain ,where did yours originate from ,indeed all true hounds .Our bird dogs are specific to the task and soft mouthed as a result .I get what your saying but your also trying to convince some that its better to part with a wad of cash on one of these than use what we have .Ive been to a few trials years ago and one thing stood out above all others and that was the ego of the owners .

[waz77 15]

I'd be more interested to hear about the badgers they work,how extensive are the setts,how many are dug each season,how long are the seasons and are they all shot or tipped back in to fight another day? This all makes a big difference to how good the dogs really are

[jawn 449]

O.k..... I'll try this one more time.....

 

With all due respect foxdropper..... I'll agree that they MIGHT not be any better for you than a terrier you have that is already doing everything you need it to....

 

The same applies to your earth dogs.....The good ones have been bred for centuries to do what is expected of them in your part of the world. It would be silly to insist that a dog bred with the same job in mind that came from another part of the continent bred by men with different traditions and expectations of terriers would definitely produce you a prospect as well suited for your needs as someone you know locally.

 

I'm not knocking the types of terriers you have... I've said over and over that these dogs are like any other... good and bad.

 

 

 

 

I'm not trying to convince ANYONE to part with their hard earned money for ANYTHING.

 

I'm not here selling dogs.... and I never have been. Your terriers like your hounds or bird dogs may well be the best for what you do in the areas and on the types of game they were bred for.

 

But the best in the world? Maybe if you confine your expectations of performance to your shores and the the types of game you hunt there. Our terriers like our hounds have roots that trace back to your part of the world....but you better believe that smart people through selective breeding improved upon them to make them more suitable for other areas and types of game.... and in some cases the same game you hunt in other parts of the world

 

This nationalist pride of yours is cool with me....I'm from Texas and pride is something we aren't short on. I haven't tried to convince you that a dog of any kind bred anywhere else will be better than what you breed for what you do. It only follows that you will find it difficult to convince ME that you or anyone else over there for that matter breeds a dog that won't stand on it's head when asked to track and or subdue/ hold game it wasn't bred to in an area just north of hell.

 

This is not a slight on your dogs....the people who breed them... or those of you that hunt them. IT IS IN_FACT the very same view you've taken with regard to the jagdterrier.

Edited January 23, 2014 by jawn

[foxdropper 17,092]

The point you are missing mate is that over here terrier work is a sport in its own right .The dogs used are out and out digging dogs .We do not expect our earth dogs to jump through hoops when not digging .We do not require a multi tasking dog that digs one day then holds boar the next .The lads that import the jagd if they do will require the same.You have back tracked a bit on your description concerning earthwork ommitting it from your last post .What you suggested is that these terriers are in someway superior to our digging dogs,albeit it in a smug roundabout manner .All i ask is that you outline what these qualities are for anyone thinking of parting with money .

To suggest that dogs bred for purpose over here have been improved overseas on the same game would be a bold statement even for a texan lol.

[unlacedgecko 1,466]

I'd be more interested to hear about the badgers they work,how extensive are the setts,how many are dug each season,how long are the seasons and are they all shot or tipped back in to fight another day? This all makes a big difference to how good the dogs really are

 

The European badger is the same on the continent as it is here. They live in setts dug from the earth. They can live in large clans or can be found individually.

 

Very generally speaking;

 

In the lowland agricultural areas the setts do not get as big as there are no laws protecting them. If they are damaging agricultural interests then the tenants are vacated and the sett reduced or destroyed.

 

In the more mountainous areas setts can be as old and as large as any in the UK or Ireland.

 

All digging to these dogs is done legally on permission. The digging is very relaxed and unhurried. It is not unusual to stop for a picnic half way through a dig.

 

In my experience, and from what my friends tell me, the vast majority of game is shot.

[jawn 449]

The same applies to your earth dogs.....The good ones have been bred for centuries to do what is expected of them in your part of the world. It would be silly to insist that a dog bred with the same job in mind that came from another part of the continent bred by men with different traditions and expectations of terriers would definitely produce you a prospect as well suited for your needs as someone you know locally. But these hunters hunt what they please in-front of God and everybody without a care in the world..... and they dig to traditional game. Their dogs are pretty good sometimes....ALLOT of the time... what's more... they can prove it.

 

Over seventy five years of focused breeding practices geared toward separating this type of terrier from those it originated from. Think about it for a minute....let that sink in. They aren't some mythical super terrier.... you're probably better off with what you have. If you ONLY hunt your terriers to ground.... yea... you can use a jagd for that. But you don't need one for it.

 

 

Was this the "somewhat smug" statement that according to you I backtracked on?

 

Let me be clear..... I'm not guessing if jagds can hold their own with some very good digging dogs produced in your part of the world..

 

I didn't however suggest that they were any better or worse... or that YOU should rush out and buy one.

 

And for what it is worth...traditional terrier work is a sport and a livelihood for far more than the people in your backyard.