dogo argentino attacks tv presenter

[stewie 3,387]

shees luky it waznt a pitty as tey av lok jaw an wunt ov let Er go

[Moll. 1,770]

The dog really shouldnt have bit her should it? But lets be honest,...He gave her a nip! Size of the dog made things worse than it was and Im not making excuses here as I do think the dog should be PTS,...Cant really be rehomed can he? If it was a small toy dog that done it Im sure the folk would have laughed it of. And the dog hardly went mental did he? Dont have much experiance with dogs like that but with the way they was sitting and holding the dog could they have done much if he went wild n started attacking? They set that dog up, hours upon hours should have been spent on that dog to see how far things could go with him. If he didnt do it on that show what could have happend next? Start dragging him through schools ect held by the collar?

 

That was no nip, if you look at still taken from the video, the dog had his mouth WIDE open. If the dog had connected fully, which was very possible with that kind of full on bite, he perhaps may just have gone mental when hearing the screams.

There are lots of what if's, what might, what caused etc....but at the end of the day that dog produced an unprovoked attack on a human. No warning, no nip, an actual bite.

The people who are giving the dog an 'excuse' for biting are just as guilty of anthropomorpism as the anti's they so despise

[GrCh 856]

The dog really shouldnt have bit her should it? But lets be honest,...He gave her a nip! Size of the dog made things worse than it was and Im not making excuses here as I do think the dog should be PTS,...Cant really be rehomed can he? If it was a small toy dog that done it Im sure the folk would have laughed it of. And the dog hardly went mental did he? Dont have much experiance with dogs like that but with the way they was sitting and holding the dog could they have done much if he went wild n started attacking? They set that dog up, hours upon hours should have been spent on that dog to see how far things could go with him. If he didnt do it on that show what could have happend next? Start dragging him through schools ect held by the collar?

 

That was no nip, if you look at still taken from the video, the dog had his mouth WIDE open. If the dog had connected fully, which was very possible with that kind of full on bite, he perhaps may just have gone mental when hearing the screams.

There are lots of what if's, what might, what caused etc....but at the end of the day that dog produced an unprovoked attack on a human. No warning, no nip, an actual bite.

The people who are giving the dog an 'excuse' for biting are just as guilty of anthropomorpism as the anti's they so despise

 

[leegreen 2,105]

The dog really shouldnt have bit her should it? But lets be honest,...He gave her a nip! Size of the dog made things worse than it was and Im not making excuses here as I do think the dog should be PTS,...Cant really be rehomed can he? If it was a small toy dog that done it Im sure the folk would have laughed it of. And the dog hardly went mental did he? Dont have much experiance with dogs like that but with the way they was sitting and holding the dog could they have done much if he went wild n started attacking? They set that dog up, hours upon hours should have been spent on that dog to see how far things could go with him. If he didnt do it on that show what could have happend next? Start dragging him through schools ect held by the collar?

 

That was no nip, if you look at still taken from the video, the dog had his mouth WIDE open. If the dog had connected fully, which was very possible with that kind of full on bite, he perhaps may just have gone mental when hearing the screams.

There are lots of what if's, what might, what caused etc....but at the end of the day that dog produced an unprovoked attack on a human. No warning, no nip, an actual bite.

The people who are giving the dog an 'excuse' for biting are just as guilty of anthropomorpism as the anti's they so despise

Your right Moll, but the dog never asked to be there.

[Moll. 1,770]

Your right Moll, but the dog never asked to be there.

 

To true Lee, very sad for all concerned imo.

Who knows if the dog had not been in that situation it may have never bitten anyone in the whole of it's life...but then again?

Like i said...lot's of what if's.

[Casso 1,261]

You are totally disregarding genetic inheritance......are we now to believe theres no such thing as a dog who is just wired wrong ?.....ive been around some very good dogmen over the years,men who could get inside a dogs head and were naturally great dogmen....personally i dont think i was ever on their level for the natural bond they could create with a dog whether it be their own dog my dog or a strangers dog they just seemed to have that special something.............that still doesnt mean they didnt have to cull the odd manbiter......

What you are basically saying is dogs,or indeed anything born of nature.....is born without fault,and thats just ludicrous !.......whether those faults ever show themself in the dogs lifetime isnt necessarily so....but sometimes they do,hence the saying " born bad ".....

Are we to believe the worlds sickest serial killers were just victims of their environment ?......Jeffrey Dahmer was killing small animals from a young age for the sheer hell of it.....progressing to killing humans and having sex with dead bodies before eating them.......your telling me he was wired ok but just strayed off the straight and narrow.......and some good guy like yourself could of come along and turned him good ??......anything born of nature has the capability to be born bad,to think otherwise is in my opinion very naive.....hence nobody breeds 100 % good dogs,its just not possible.

i think part of the problem in discussing animals and dogs in particular is that we give them human thought values which is just basically wrong, serial killers and dogs compared in the same thread just exposes how much we make that link,

 

apart from that, i come on here to learn ,ponder and enjoy this forum ,i dont discuss other folk and their experiences and their dogs, i have learnt through experience, knowledge pasted on from my father and his in turn and trial and error,

and understand the laws of nature and how it works in our favor with dogs, on the other hand if someone is afraid of the nature of dogs maybe believing the next dog they come across will be the mad one thats out there, thats fine too

i have never came across a mad or badly wired or a bad on, that couldn't be explained

the problem is people get fixed onto a thought process that roughly fits the bill because they cant account for the missing bits, and make a link with what goes on in the human world,

if you want to believe that a dog which you cant understand the motives for is plainly mad or wired wrong so be it,

 

most humans who go off the deep end had a deeply troubled upbringing,

i still cant figure out the 100% good dog bit, when man has bred for friendliness not purpose, the first thing you lose is drive, what your breeding for there is submissiveness which is a defense mechanism in dogs

this defense system in canines is fear based, and a fear based dog can be a problem, and is maybe what your alluding too, as a dangerous dog is really a scared dog not bred for purpose, just form

on the other hand a purpose bred animal bred for work with high drive is a cool calm animal confident in its own skin, when folk over here first imported dogs from german working lines,well reared confident dogs they found they had to train them too bark at strangers so calm were the dogs in themselves,

 

i appreciate your input in this debate but the current thinking is just too easy to put all the blame on the mutt, if we cant understand a dogs behavior in whatever circumstances we should look a little deeper , best of luck,

 

A well written and well thought out post but one that I can't agree with I am afraid.....it implies that nurture wins over nature and I simply don't believe that at all.

 

IMHO nature, will always shine through.......it's in there somewhere waiting for the trigger.

 

Nature shines through in well bred dogs, not bred for conformation but for work.....they just have a lot more about them than dogs bred from any old shite

 

There most certainly are dogs that are just born "wrong" in the head and that's a fact

my debate is not nature v's nurture, im not sure where how your picking that up,

Thats a huge issue for greater minds than mine, with the last poster there was certain amount of debate and interesting facts to ponder, but with your post i feel by your use of words like one side winning over the other, and your finishing the post with "thats a fact" will cut short interest as you seem to already understand the nature of the canine,,best of luck bud

[Millet 4,497]

That dog is not going to be in a pefect situation all it's life unless kenneled..if it bit a friedly lady like that what would it do to someone with a learning dissability or a full on child..the plain and simple matter is the dog is a dangerous liability..and that kind of aggresion show's it..and i bite nip whatever you want to call it will have caused a great deal of damage to her face..FACT...it's ok having a little puppy nip on but that should be learned out of it..

I love my dog's and would protect them dearly but if one of them ever done that to anyone other that a violent person protecting me it would not see tomorrow..

[WILF 44,740]

 

my debate is not nature v's nurture, im not sure where how your picking that up,

Thats a huge issue for greater minds than mine, with the last poster there was certain amount of debate and interesting facts to ponder, but with your post i feel by your use of words like one side winning over the other, and your finishing the post with "thats a fact" will cut short interest as you seem to already understand the nature of the canine,,best of luck bud

 

If I have interpreted your post incorrectly then I apologise, that's just how I read it.

In hindsight, I should not have written the "fact" comment but should have written " in my experience"

 

I read your post as all dogs are born well adjusted social animals so by implication " bad" dogs are made so by humans or environment.....I personally don't believe this is always the case although I agree it can certainly happen.

But it is also my belief that some dogs are just born bad or wrong in the head

 

Maybe you could explain what you meant in more laymens terms so that I can more easily understand.

Sorry if you though my post was trying to be in any way "smartarse"

Atb

 

 

[North east finest 105]

 

a "brother" who knows nothing about dogs knows not to put his face up with a unknown dog. lol

even before i watched that video i was thinking it was a rescue dog... you could tell that was 1 of them shows where they bring on a big cute dog and talk about how many dogs need rehoming in the kennels ect ect if the bloke holding the dog didnt pull it back i bet it would of carried on with its attack... and another thing will some 1 tell that "brother" lol that the breed he was trying to say is a mastiF not a massive :laugh:

[North east finest 105]

A big powerful breed, another case of breeding for looks , image or type. These breeders leave temperament at the door, it should be first and foremost when breeding such animals. Most rare fancy dog breeds are never bred on temperament , more so a physical attribute. Makes for unstable dogs, accidents waiting to happen.

its a doggo ffs not a lap dog, there bred for fighting and killing hogs bears lions pumas and what ever else they stumble across... There a ban dog for a reason

[North east finest 105]

That dog is not going to be in a pefect situation all it's life unless kenneled..if it bit a friedly lady like that what would it do to someone with a learning dissability or a full on child..the plain and simple matter is the dog is a dangerous liability..and that kind of aggresion show's it..and i bite nip whatever you want to call it will have caused a great deal of damage to her face..FACT...it's ok having a little puppy nip on but that should be learned out of it..

I love my dog's and would protect them dearly but if one of them ever done that to anyone other that a violent person protecting me it would not see tomorrow..

i dare say that dog didnt see tomorow..

[North east finest 105]

got to be a member to watch it.. it practically pulls a hogs face of

[gnasher16 29,834]

i think part of the problem in discussing animals and dogs in particular is that we give them human thought values which is just basically wrong, serial killers and dogs compared in the same thread just exposes how much we make that link,

 

apart from that, i come on here to learn ,ponder and enjoy this forum ,i dont discuss other folk and their experiences and their dogs, i have learnt through experience, knowledge pasted on from my father and his in turn and trial and error,

and understand the laws of nature and how it works in our favor with dogs, on the other hand if someone is afraid of the nature of dogs maybe believing the next dog they come across will be the mad one thats out there, thats fine too

i have never came across a mad or badly wired or a bad on, that couldn't be explained

the problem is people get fixed onto a thought process that roughly fits the bill because they cant account for the missing bits, and make a link with what goes on in the human world,

if you want to believe that a dog which you cant understand the motives for is plainly mad or wired wrong so be it,

 

most humans who go off the deep end had a deeply troubled upbringing,

i still cant figure out the 100% good dog bit, when man has bred for friendliness not purpose, the first thing you lose is drive, what your breeding for there is submissiveness which is a defense mechanism in dogs

this defense system in canines is fear based, and a fear based dog can be a problem, and is maybe what your alluding too, as a dangerous dog is really a scared dog not bred for purpose, just form

on the other hand a purpose bred animal bred for work with high drive is a cool calm animal confident in its own skin, when folk over here first imported dogs from german working lines,well reared confident dogs they found they had to train them too bark at strangers so calm were the dogs in themselves,

 

i appreciate your input in this debate but the current thinking is just too easy to put all the blame on the mutt, if we cant understand a dogs behavior in whatever circumstances we should look a little deeper , best of luck,

 

Ive enjoyed reading your thoughts on this subject its a subject i find fascinating .....i dont agree with you but interesting reading nontheless simply as i truly believe over the years ive been around dogs ive seen the absolute very best and very worst of what a dog has to offer....and do feel ive enough experience of a working/sporting dogs mind to be able to comment.....likewise i appreciate you no doubt feel the same and thats fine.

As regards giving dogs human values thats not what im doing at all.....im simply making the comparison to a serial killer as regards the nature of genetics......genetics doesnt allow for perfection no matter what the species be it dog,human or fish ! There will always be faults within anything born of nature to think that cannot be a mental/emotional fault i dont see how you refuse to accept that.

You say you have never come across a dog thats wired wrong and that cannot be explained....well good for you......but i have.....ive been on the recieving end of a couple as well.....and believe me its no fun not just the physical trauma but the self criticism you start giving yourself when you just cant explain why a dog did what it did.....a dog you have put your heart and soul into,who has been treated like gold dust and had the best of everything....a dog you have invested huge time into,who you have loved and raised with care and dedication..............................the physical scars are nothing compared to the dissapointment and upset of having to deal with that dog in the correct and responsible manner.....

Ok so you think the likes of Jeffrey Dahmer just had a troubled upbringing..........................read his fathers book its a fascinating read,the kid grew up with as much love and attention as any other kid.......so in that case nurture was not a factor...it was purely nature.

You say a dangerous dog is really a scared dog not bred for purpose..... you couldnt be more wrong,the dogs ive referred to above that i had close contact and experience with were extremely confident dogs bred for one purpose and one purpose only.....and that was the job they were historically bred to do throughout the generations,a more purpose bred dog you could not find........................but they still just flipped.....can you explain that ?

I dont place all the blame on dogs all the time.....but in some circumstance theres nothing else to blame....you seem to have the outlook that dogs are robots that are all bred the same from a blank canvas and are there to be manipulated towards good or bad.....and genetics just dont work like that....

Like i say though......very interesting topic and good to hear your thoughts.

Edited February 12, 2012 by gnasher16

[Casso 1,261]

If we are to truly believe that we understand the canine and as a forum that includes working dogs of different shapes and sizes, im sure a large majority do,

We seem to all be able to offer advice based on the dominance theory, pack leadership, such as "he's only trying it on, trying to get above his station"

 

given that this is the current thinking worldwide with the success and acclaim of one little Mexican Mr Milan who can do no wrong, poking dogs, chocking them and whatever else he feels will shut them down,into what he calls a calm submissive state, a dog that is shut down mentally wont move,

 

If all this is right and dogs just want to take over their pack and become leaders of the household and we have all these procedures in place to stop them, must be fed after the family, must not be let through a door first, must walk behind you, must this must not that,

 

how, could someone tell me given that this dominance approach is bang on ,How Is there thousands of mutt clogging up shelters all over the world with numbers rising, do we really feel we have the dog all figured out,

why do some little dogs control bigger ones , why isnt the bigger dog always dominant , it should be, given what were lead to believe,

 

So if we are to believe the pack leader approach is the only way to go we feel we understand the dog, just like a wolf pack ,pup grows up tries it on at a certain age finding his place in the pack, and funnily enough it seems to coincide with his drive kicking in, but most folk read it as the former,

 

The only problem with the mexican approach is it will work with indirect dogs, followers rather than direct animals with hard blood the approach is downright dangerous, and whatever the issue that causes us to come into conflict with a direct animal whom we subdue via the Milan approach the issue is not gone away it is still in that dog lurking in the dog very pores, and on top of it we have throw in a conflict with us, but here's the problem,

 

Whatever emotional trauma goes into a dog must come out, like venting anger from an emotional experience, whatever goes in must come out, like the father slapping the son , who in turn slaps his son in times of anger,its not a thinking process its an emotional reaction

 

But what has this got to do with dogs who just seemly flip out for no reason, as we believe they do , we just cant believe why the dog is doing this , we've done it the right way everyone does it this way , we've done it this way in the past, why is the dog disobeying me does he not remember im the leader

the dog is like a channel of emotion,emotion in emotion out ,may take some time but it will work its way to the top and explode out in some cases with hard dogs in total carnage

 

so apart from issues with dangerous dogs who feel compelled to bit females on live tv, have we really got the canine all figured out or are we just filling in the spaces that we cant fathom, and in the same breath why is there so many mutts living on death row in shelters are they all wired wrong,,

Edited February 12, 2012 by Casso

[gnasher16 29,834]

So we was in agreement all along then ............i dont disagree with any of that.....but whats that got to do with nature versus nurture,which was basically the reason you was giving for dogs attacking people ...never mind.

The reason there is so many dogs in shelters all across the world is a society issue......not a dog issue.