Saluki ways And dismays

[skycat 6,173]

I think that the whole attention span thing is down to the individual dog. I've had Saluki types who never lost concentration no matter how slow the day was, and collie types which were 'action' dogs, happier hunting hard than waiting for something to happen.

[skycat 6,173]

Anyone who knows and has had experience with Salukis and Saluki lurchers will know that their brains don't develop the same way as other dogs LOL

 

Seriously, they sometimes need a lot more time to develop mentally in CERTAIN AREAS. It's almost as though the owner doesn't exist, though in some shadowy way, the pup must know they are important to its survival and well being. No point getting angry with these pups, just watch them hunt a butterfly down the garden, watch them cut their littermates off in a game of tag: they are very much alive and the only thing of interest to them is catching something, anything which moves.

 

The bond, the relationship between owner and dog needs to be nurtured, and is not for the impatient or quick of temper. These pups need to develop at their own pace, in their own way, or the bond will never grow or survive. You can't force things: if the pup isn't ready, it isn't ready. All my Saluki types hunted from the nest, working long lines of scent at 5-6 months old, putting up pheasants, rabbits etc. That's how they learn, not by someone telling them to sit and stay, lie down and fetch.

 

Sure, they'll drive a traditional lurcherman crazy with despair and frustration, but if someone wants to catch game, watch a superb hunter at work, share a special moment in time with one of the oldest breeds (types) on the planet, and you're prepared to work WITH the dog, not against its nature, then IMO, they are pretty special creatures, with more in their heads than a lot of people ever realise. Given the chance they'll work out how to do a job as good as any other dog, and often better. Just don't get thinking that you're cleverer than they are, cos your'e not!!!

[Saluqihounds 150]

ferreting saluki's

 

 

wernt you merri hunter?? yoused to like your posts mainly lamping if a remember...

 

enjoyed your little film there...........but not enough to show them realy working a warren,, it just showed them catching bolters wich they did a treat,,

 

That would be me Tomo.

 

Yeah they are just wee clips, suffice to say tough that they do very well for me, they might work differently to some dogs but they allow me to work large sets of maybe 200 holes alone without help so that'll do me.

[socks 32,253]

P as I said in my original post for most of the day the youngster was spot on with a keen prey drive and a lightening fast strike the hunting ability wasn't an issue for me as the youngster is spot on at lamping and hunts up well when off the lead and rabbit that went passed it on the day was soon accounted for. The issue for me is the selective deafness this type of dog possesses I couldn't get on with a dog that looks strait through you when you call it in and no matter what you do it will just stand and look at you then 5 mins later when it decides to come in it will. I don't want a trickster of a dog that can play dead roll over fetch the paper etc but I do want an obedient dog that responds immideately to my commands.

 

Now the dog is a youngster and is owned by a young lad that hasn't got tons of training experience and perhaps in different hands the dog would be a lot different BUT the whole point of my first post was to highlight the different mentality that the heavily saturated saluki types have compared to most other types.

[WILF 44,704]

I didnt read Socks post as "having a pop" at salukis, I like and keep saluki types but I agree with him that a well trained collie type would, in the right hands, make for a better ferreting dog.

 

And he is bang on that they can drive you nuts sometimes when they have "a moment"!!

Edited January 16, 2012 by WILF

[fieldsman 51]

If the time and effort is put in bonding with the pup gaining respect from it training comes with a lot less stress ,in the first 6 months of its life spend every available minute with your saluki they respond far more than dogs kept in a pen and taken out 3 times a day pretty obvious i know but these dogs seem far more aloof and seem to take longer to mature mine can be used for most work and will stand or sit for as long as is needed and comes as soon as signalled no need to say a word .Dogs I have taken on later in their lives have all had problems some more than others mostly recall and the only common factor is the way they were kept .Not all dogs go on to have problems if kennelled outside as many take to it better than others but it does seem to be dogs kept in this way have more problems than dogs kept in separation anxiety seems to make some very hard to bond with and turning dog round that has problems allready takes twice as long as when they are pups and a very few its impossible to turn them round one I had came to me because as soon as it was of lead it would hunt up and kill and nothing would stop her i tried for months and no amount of re-training helped it was as if she was deaf when the lead came off.She was kenneled out and in my opinion for what its worth was no early bonding,training was given and combined with seperation made her see her human handler as nothing more than a way of getting to her quarry in the end i proved to be her downfall.

Edited January 16, 2012 by fieldsman

[skycat 6,173]

From my own experience, I believe that the selective deafness, as you put it, comes from the dog thinking that there is no point to the command. Say the dog is standing on a certain part of a warren: a place it has chosen for itself, and you, the owner, want to put it somewhere else. 'Normal' dogs will obey the command because that is what they have been bred to do: defer to the owner, obey orders etc. Saluki types are thinking all the time, working out what they should be doing, how to do it best.

 

You only have to watch a really good experienced coursing dog doing its job: its not just running after a hare, its assessing, judging, reading the hare in every twist and turn. It is aware of the woods or cover in the distance, it is watching to see if the hare is making for that cover, and it changes its running tactics, its speed, according to where the hare wants to go. That dog might appear to be cruising along to the novice eye, but someone who knows how these dogs run will see a different story completely.

 

It's the same with the warren: the dog, if it is allowed to make its own choices, it will learn where to be. Sure it will make mistakes to begin with, that's normal.

 

the 'stand and stare at you' thing, well, I've not had that exactly. The stand and stare then bugger off: oh yes! Plenty of times, with young dogs of this type, but they've always been buggering off to where they last found something: I've been and found a particular dog of mine standing mesmerised over a warren, the same warren he's worked before, or the same wood he's worked and put something out of in the past. Tear your hair out time!

 

IMO, these dogs need far more work than most people could ever give them, and they're only truly alive when they're working. Its all they live for, most of them.

 

Edited to add: agree 100% with fieldsman.

[MrsChamp606 553]

Penny is right, the number of times ive been out ferreting or bushing and been looking at my saluki lurcher thinking why are you standing there, trying to force her to stand where I think is best and then the bunny bolting from her original position! D'oh!! They are very very clever and I agree with penny they are way more intelligent than will could dream of being!

I've also had the looking over to me copping a deaf en, they just look at you and don't see any benefit in returning to you, you learn to live with it and just enjoy watching 4000 years of hunting legacy!

[Saluqihounds 150]

P as I said in my original post for most of the day the youngster was spot on with a keen prey drive and a lightening fast strike the hunting ability wasn't an issue for me as the youngster is spot on at lamping and hunts up well when off the lead and rabbit that went passed it on the day was soon accounted for. The issue for me is the selective deafness this type of dog possesses I couldn't get on with a dog that looks strait through you when you call it in and no matter what you do it will just stand and look at you then 5 mins later when it decides to come in it will. I don't want a trickster of a dog that can play dead roll over fetch the paper etc but I do want an obedient dog that responds immideately to my commands. Now the dog is a youngster and is owned by a young lad that hasn't got tons of training experience and perhaps in different hands the dog would be a lot different BUT the whole point of my first post was to highlight the different mentality that the heavily saturated saluki types have compared to most other types.

 

You have to put a lot of work their way to move them away from questioning whatever you ask of them and wheter that fits in with there agenda. With Salukis you both have to both be reading from the same page and at the top of that page has to killing stuff, once you have a bond with them they will come back from there own agendas to meet yours but only when they trust you enough that you will not short change them on the hunting thing.

 

They are a bit like teenage daughters lol, if you try to be overly controlling of them you'll only push them away from you and they will be awkward with you for the sake of it. Give them time to think things over without pushing things too much and they will come round in time. I can be a bit of a control freak at times and I really have to work hard on that side of me to keep it in check when working with youngsters. I'm quite firm with them when it's needed but ultimately you have to wait for them to weigh up everything you ask. If you meet them at least half way you will find over time that they will do things they don't particularly but what you take in one hand you must give back from the other.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Saluqihounds

[Sirius 1,358]

Out of choice i would select a lurcher with herding breeds in it over a saluki type for ferreting.

I havent seen anough saluki types ferreting to have loads of experience but I know it wouldnt be my first choice of dog to train as a ferreting dog.

 

Especially if you have to tie them up while you have a ferret to ground A 10month pup should know a fair bit about the game by that age, and not needed to be tethered up like a terrier at a dig But I guess we all do it different.

 

I am sure there are great pure and saturated desert dogs that do the job, but in my mind they lend themselves to other uses than ferreting.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Sirius

[juckler123 707]

one swallow dont make a summer you cant generalise about all salukis or saluki hybrids being the same given the right upbringing they will do the ferreting game and do it as well as any other type.

[brookie 1,193]

Fellas the description of the day was a generalisation of what the dog done not wether it was supposed to be over the warren or was being called just for a stroke. These incidents happened when nothing much was going on.

 

However a young dog may well need to be called into heel because it is sticking it's head into a hole that could produce a bolt or because it's upsetting the nets. And I it could well be called in for a stroke and a bit of fuss because it has done something worthy of praise thus reinforcing the positive behaviour.

 

I love fukcing smart arses.

id have thought it would have been tied up .or on a lead why would you want to be calling a young dog and making a noise over the holes when the ferret is in .after all its only a yougster and its keeness and prey drive will compel it to look around when it hears the sound of battle below ..some times theres some right bollox posted on here .if you was that experienced a ferreter mate you wouldnt be having young dogs loose running from hole to hole and then trying to call them away and making a noise when the pug was in .

 

Brooke what the feck is a 10 month old dog going to learn tied up on a warren and where did I say the pup was running from hole to hole making a nuisance of itself ? Don't go presuming you know what was going on on the day. What was happening was that after a bolt and the rabbit was caught instead of the youngster coming back onto the warren she would go into some sort of trance and just stand 10 foot away and no amount of coaxing or calling what get her back to her owner. Then 2 minuets later the same would happen and she would come straight back in after being called. As for ferreting if you ever want to bring your superior self and your saluki crosses down my way please come and teach me and my collie cross cur a lesson or two or not LOL

itl only learn from whats put in front of it .pal .and from how its presented ..you say after a bolt .and a rabbit was caught ( in other words you had missed holes or you cant net properly .also there was more than one dog loose ) then you was calling and coaxing her as you put it to get her back in .then again the previous would happen again .dont you think she might have been out thinking you boys . after all your not the best of feretters about .as for your invitation lets reverse and you come to me .you might learn something then. as for my saluki crosses you wont teach em anything other than bad habits

[lightning123 6]

Fellas the description of the day was a generalisation of what the dog done not wether it was supposed to be over the warren or was being called just for a stroke. These incidents happened when nothing much was going on.

 

However a young dog may well need to be called into heel because it is sticking it's head into a hole that could produce a bolt or because it's upsetting the nets. And I it could well be called in for a stroke and a bit of fuss because it has done something worthy of praise thus reinforcing the positive behaviour.

 

I love fukcing smart arses.

id have thought it would have been tied up .or on a lead why would you want to be calling a young dog and making a noise over the holes when the ferret is in .after all its only a yougster and its keeness and prey drive will compel it to look around when it hears the sound of battle below ..some times theres some right bollox posted on here .if you was that experienced a ferreter mate you wouldnt be having young dogs loose running from hole to hole and then trying to call them away and making a noise when the pug was in .

 

Brooke what the feck is a 10 month old dog going to learn tied up on a warren and where did I say the pup was running from hole to hole making a nuisance of itself ? Don't go presuming you know what was going on on the day. What was happening was that after a bolt and the rabbit was caught instead of the youngster coming back onto the warren she would go into some sort of trance and just stand 10 foot away and no amount of coaxing or calling what get her back to her owner. Then 2 minuets later the same would happen and she would come straight back in after being called. As for ferreting if you ever want to bring your superior self and your saluki crosses down my way please come and teach me and my collie cross cur a lesson or two or not LOL

itl only learn from whats put in front of it .pal .and from how its presented ..you say after a bolt .and a rabbit was caught ( in other words you had missed holes or you cant net properly .also there was more than one dog loose ) then you was calling and coaxing her as you put it to get her back in .then again the previous would happen again .dont you think she might have been out thinking you boys . after all your not the best of feretters about .as for your invitation lets reverse and you come to me .you might learn something then. as for my saluki crosses you wont teach em anything other than bad habits

 

after all your not the best of feretters about :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[smallfoot 118]

Had two dogs with saluki in them now and both done the 5 yard stare lol

Don't know why they done it or why my pup does it now but I was warned of this

He is getting a little better but I have to normaly turn and take a. few steps in other direction

And he will follow the get him on lead or in by side

Does get frustration tho

[wi11ow 2,657]

salukis are no diffrent to any other lurcher they do make great ferrerting dogs coursing dogs allrounders but they can as young dogs test your pateicne luckys mother tryed this game when you go to put them on a lead staying 2 feet away so as we got to the car open the boot she would stand there looking at me so the game began follow the car stop ever mile to see if she wanted to get in after 3 mile after a week of this game she dint think twice about getting in the boot as the door opened